"Researchers urge doctors to disclose sleep fatigue" - CNN Frontpage

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braluk

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Not posting the article content but here is the link-
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/12/29/sleepy.surgeons/index.html?hpt=C1

Thoughts? It honestly scarily sounds like an opportunity to extend the government's hands into work hour limitations that residents have, towards attendings.

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Not posting the article content but here is the link-
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/12/29/sleepy.surgeons/index.html?hpt=C1

Thoughts? It honestly scarily sounds like an opportunity to extend the government's hands into work hour limitations that residents have, towards attendings.

I don't doubt that fatigue causes a decline in surgical ability.

Still, the article uses pretty weak logic and anecdotal storytelling. It's main root is an editorial from NEJM....it then goes into an anonymous story of a fatigued med student....just jumps around a lot as far as logic goes, without any actual reference to a study that shows practicing surgeons have deterioration of their abilities with fatigue....just resident survey studies.

People always want to compare us to pilots, but they forget that a pilot's schedule is significantly more predictable. I wonder how the public would react to suggestions that we start canceling flights, etc.

Either way, this is what the public sees. Isn't it great that among all of our other thankless acts, we are now being vilified for our hard work/long hours.
 
just a few thoughts:

#1. I rarely get 6 solid hours of sleep when I am not on call, never mind when I am on call
#2. I presume patients who need surgery in the middle of the night would rather be operated on by a surgeon who is used to operating under those conditions after all practice makes perfect
#3. This article is sensationalized and does not use any solid data but strikes a chord with the lay public
#4. the ACS higher-ups are appropriate with their comments
#5. If patients are looking for well rested surgeons, does that mean breast surgeons will be doing all of the surgeries????

Ridiculous
 
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I don't doubt that fatigue causes a decline in surgical ability.

Still, the article uses pretty weak logic and anecdotal storytelling. It's main root is an editorial from NEJM....it then goes into an anonymous story of a fatigued med student....just jumps around a lot as far as logic goes, without any actual reference to a study that shows practicing surgeons have deterioration of their abilities with fatigue....just resident survey studies.

People always want to compare us to pilots, but they forget that a pilot's schedule is significantly more predictable. I wonder how the public would react to suggestions that we start canceling flights, etc.

On top of that, pilots are only allowed 100 hours of flight time per 30 days.

http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=11857

O NOES! The 25 hour work week is coming!!!

*in the not-so-distant future* GS residencies are extended to 15 years. :smuggrin:

Either way, this is what the public sees. Isn't it great that among all of our other thankless acts, we are now being vilified for our hard work/long hours.

People love to hate docs. What's new? :laugh:
 
Generally speaking, I am against any type of external work hour policing.... but if attending work hours became a law- then there would be an instant surgeon shortage and that would equal more money to those who could operate more efficiently.
I did an aortic valve replacement today and was in the recovery room at 9:30, remembering plenty of times I was in elective inguinal hernias or lap choles that took longer.

I also wonder if this would indirectly lead to surgeons being mere technicians like IR. It was long felt that a surgeon's time outside the OR is wasted anyway, which is paradoxically against the fact that noone can take care of a surgical patient better than the operating surgeon.
 
I also wonder if this would indirectly lead to surgeons being mere technicians like IR. It was long felt that a surgeon's time outside the OR is wasted anyway, which is paradoxically against the fact that noone can take care of a surgical patient better than the operating surgeon.
I've thought about this before (and once argued with an engineer who thought that robots could do surgery autonomously), but it seems like such a bad idea on so many levels.

If you cause a complication, who is going to want to take care of that post-operatively? And wouldn't you want to try to fix your own mistake rather than just handing it to someone else who is much less vested in fixing it?
 
And wouldn't you want to try to fix your own mistake rather than just handing it to someone else who is much less vested in fixing it?

I think in the real world, surgeons are much quicker to let someone else deal with their mistakes. I certainly have to inherit FUBARs from non-teaching Kansas surgeons periodically.
 
http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/la-he-sleep-deprived-20101230,0,2868578.story

Sleep-deprived doctors should not perform elective surgery, physicians say

Three doctors argue that hospitals should bar surgeons from such procedures if they have been up all night. Others, however, say simple procedures could be performed 'with or without a good night's sleep.'

By Eryn Brown, Los Angeles Times
December 30, 2010
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Hospitals should not allow surgeons to perform elective procedures on patients if they have been awake the previous night taking calls, a trio of physicians argued in Thursday's edition of the New England Journal of Medicine.

Until hospitals institute rules to keep potentially sleep-deprived doctors away from operating rooms, they said, surgeons at least owe it to patients to let them know when they have had fewer than six hours of sleep and give them the opportunity to postpone their procedures.

The consequences could be complicated and expensive — how hard will it be for patients and doctors to reschedule and who will pay for operating room downtime? — but those costs could be offset by reduction in medical errors, the authors wrote.

"It's always struck me that there's something wrong with patients having elective procedures when it's known the surgeon has been up all night," said lead author Dr. Michael Nurok, an anesthesiologist and medical ethicist at the Hospital for Special Surgery in New York. "There's an ethical obligation to inform patients."

Research has shown that there is an 83% increase in the risk of surgical complications for patients who undergo elective daytime procedures performed by surgeons who hadn't slept at least six hours the previous night while they were on call, Nurok and colleagues noted. A recent survey showed that 80% of patients would request a different doctor if they knew that their surgeon had been awake for 24 hours.

Dr. Charles Czeisler, a sleep expert who co-wrote the essay, has argued for years that doctors' inhuman sleeping habits endanger patients. But getting physicians to change their work culture has been nearly impossible — in many hospitals, all-nighters remain a badge of honor.

In a letter that appears in the same edition, three members of the American College of Surgeons argued that mandatory disclosure of sleep deprivation is "unwarranted" and that "surgeons should instead be trained to identify and address" their fatigue. The group also suggested that many surgeons could successfully complete simple procedures "with or without a good night's sleep."

Nurok said that neither argument made sense because chronic sleep deprivation makes people less likely to recognize their own sleep-loss impairments and because fatigued doctors are most likely to make mistakes doing routine tasks.

"We're hopeful that patients and patient advocacy groups will take this up," he said.
 
I think in the real world, surgeons are much quicker to let someone else deal with their mistakes. I certainly have to inherit FUBARs from non-teaching Kansas surgeons periodically.
Seems to depend on the screw-up. On really sick patients who aren't likely to have a good outcome either way and are likely to involve endless phone calls from ICU nurses? Yeah, I feel like we inherit those all the time.
 
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