Does anyone know anything about the residency application process in Canada? I'm going to a U.S. med school and am a U.S. Citizen, but I dream of tasting the sweet Poutine of liberty after I graduate. is it easy/hard/the same?
Residencies in Canadia
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I'm fairly sure this is not realistic unless you are Canadian or attending a Canadian med school. Pretty much every developed nation has barriers of entry to the profession more restrictive than the US.
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poutine is great - but wait until you try beaver...
But seriously, no offense, but your odds are slim to none. It's almost impossible for a non-canadian citizen to get residency in canada. Even canadian IMGs have an extremely hard time with residency. Do we have a massive doctor shortage? yes. So why is this the case....thats a whole other story
But seriously, no offense, but your odds are slim to none. It's almost impossible for a non-canadian citizen to get residency in canada. Even canadian IMGs have an extremely hard time with residency. Do we have a massive doctor shortage? yes. So why is this the case....thats a whole other story
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Out of curiosity, do you have to do a Canadian residency to practice in Canada? What's the rules on a US board-certified grad to practice/obtain visa and/or citizenship?
As of right now yes I believe you do. I'm not sure if the rules are different for US IMGs, but IMGs from Asia, Europe, etc. need to re-do their residency in Canada to get licensed (+ pass the tests, although if you passed the USMLE you should be fine, the Canadian test is pretty similar in material, if not a bit easier from what I've heard).
They do save a certain number of spots for IMGs, but there are A LOT of IMGs applying for very few spots.
I live in Canada and I know there are MDs here who were originally trained in other countries... but all the ones I know of re-did their residency training. Might explain why there are so many foreign-MDs working as lab techs here...
They do save a certain number of spots for IMGs, but there are A LOT of IMGs applying for very few spots.
I live in Canada and I know there are MDs here who were originally trained in other countries... but all the ones I know of re-did their residency training. Might explain why there are so many foreign-MDs working as lab techs here...
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To the OP,
Here's a link to the website that lists eligibility, by province, for matching based on country of education and residency:
http://www.carms.ca/eng/r1_eligibility_prov_e.shtml
The CaRMS website (which is the Canadian Residency Matching Service) should have all the information you need.
Also keep in mind that, should you apply to both Canadian and US matches, that the Canadian results come out a couple of weeks prior to US results. If you happen to get matched in Canada, then you will be pulled from the US match.
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Where is Canadia??
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If your us board certified its a different story. I know canadians that are us board certified have no issues coming back to practice except they msut undergo a year of 'supervision'. If your american, and certified, I
d assume the biggst obstacle is getting a working visa, if you can do that , id imagine itd be similar as a canadian citizzen comiing back...supervision before licensing
its the country Canadian's come from
so it sounds like residency in Canada is pretty much out. Is it really that hard to work in Canada after completing a U.S. residency? The third path in Ontario sounds borderline reasonable, but it sounds pretty tough elsewhere. man, maybe I'll have to work on the Canadian medical black market
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Marry a canadian and transfer into a canadian school?
I'm almost positive you're wrong here...U.S. citizens might have a hard time achieving a residency spot in Canada, but as far as I can tell Canadian and U.S. medical schools are considered equivalent. It's EXTREMELY difficult to get into Canadian medical schools, because there's so few of them, so many Canadian citizens matriculate into U.S. medical schools and have no problem going back and practicing as a physician in Canada with their U.S. degree.
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This is completely right. I'm a Canadian potentially attending a US school this upcoming year, and have researched on the CaRMS website to ensure I can return to Canada.
I posted a link earlier in this thread detailing the eligibility requirements for entering the match in each province. In most provinces, a US-educated Canadian citizen can enter the match in the first iteration as a CMG (Canadian medical graduate) and not an IMG. This is because all US and Canadian schools are LMCE accredited, and thus technically viewed as an equivalent education. Only a few provinces will accept DO graduates, though.
but what about U.S. educated non-canadian citizens?
I don't think the OP is a Canadian citizen and as someone who applied in both systems, I assure you Canadian schools are not "EXTREMELY" difficult to get into (assuming you're comparing to the States). They're about as hard to get into as an average, mid-tier school in the States (not that that's easy, but it's a major overstatement to call them extremely difficult).
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How so? People tell me that the average GPA for matriculating students is ~3.9 in Canada. Isn't that about the same for top-tier schools in the states? Granted, each Canadian med school calculates GPAs differently, so maybe that's where it might be a little easier. I will however admit that American students seem to more well-rounded than their Canadian counterparts (at least based on what I've seen on these forums).
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I am fairly certain that I will be practicing in BC post-residency, so what I know about this topic is pretty much limited to BC. With that limitation, here's what I've learned (I'm sure some of it can be extrapolated to other providences):
The College of Physicians and Surgeons of British Columbia maintains a list of acceptable schools, graduates of which do not have to repeat residency or board exams. That list basically encompasses Canadian med schools and US med schools. US MD graduates are not considered IMGs in the terminology of the canadian medical licensing system. US DOs are.
If a US MD grad has done their residency in a ACGME approved program (essentially any program that would lead to licensure here)** then all they have to do prior to practicing is take a licensing exam in the specialty they plan to practice in, similar to the license boards you would take here in the US. You don't have to have passed a US version already, so you could finish your residency here in the US and take the exam for the first time in the Canadian system.
The main catch is that to be approved for a work visa as a non-citizen you have to be applying to work in an underserved specialty or an underserved area (much like any immigrant), but you might be surprised at how broad those categories are. So, basically, it's not really that hard, assuming you are coming from the US system. You can find a wealth of info here: http://www.rcpsc.medical.org/
**Actually, although I'm not positive on this point, I believe even if you didn't graduate from a US MD school, if you did a ACGME residency all you have to do is submit proof of your eligibility for that residency, ie. USMLE scores.
The College of Physicians and Surgeons of British Columbia maintains a list of acceptable schools, graduates of which do not have to repeat residency or board exams. That list basically encompasses Canadian med schools and US med schools. US MD graduates are not considered IMGs in the terminology of the canadian medical licensing system. US DOs are.
If a US MD grad has done their residency in a ACGME approved program (essentially any program that would lead to licensure here)** then all they have to do prior to practicing is take a licensing exam in the specialty they plan to practice in, similar to the license boards you would take here in the US. You don't have to have passed a US version already, so you could finish your residency here in the US and take the exam for the first time in the Canadian system.
The main catch is that to be approved for a work visa as a non-citizen you have to be applying to work in an underserved specialty or an underserved area (much like any immigrant), but you might be surprised at how broad those categories are. So, basically, it's not really that hard, assuming you are coming from the US system. You can find a wealth of info here: http://www.rcpsc.medical.org/
**Actually, although I'm not positive on this point, I believe even if you didn't graduate from a US MD school, if you did a ACGME residency all you have to do is submit proof of your eligibility for that residency, ie. USMLE scores.
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I am a Canadian who will attend an American DO school and maybe practice in BC. All the data I've heard, including that from other applicants from BC, is that BC views US DO's as equivalent. Would you mind sharing where you found the data that shows US DO's as not being equivalent?
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This is a class profile for a typical Canadian medical school (although this one has traditionally been more GPA heavy than other schools).
http://fhs.mcmaster.ca/mdprog/documents/Classof2012.pdf
Average GPA of the entering class: 3.89
This puts Canadian medical schools (they are pretty much all have the same difficulty of getting into - there is no such thing as "upper tier" or "lower tier", people are happy to get a single acceptance anywhere at all) on par with upper-tier American schools. 👎
Sucks to be Canadian is all I can say. On the other hand, as another poster has mentioned, the field is a lot more "protected" from IMGs, so there is less competition and therefore (by basic economic principles) higher salaries (this is true in some fields, but not in most, since there is a single payer system).
This thread might help with figuring out the matching process:
http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46559
On the other hand, this thread doesn't really help American citizens trying to match to Canada.
I think (this is my opinion) that the biggest benefit is just to do as many 3rd/4th year electives in Canada. Having LOR's from Canadian physicians at hospitals of known quality is very helpful for other Canadian Program Directors.
This is not at all because Canadian hospitals are "better" than American ones, but PD's just in general feel more comfortable when the LOR is coming from their med school classmate working in the next city over (as opposed to someone they've never heard of).
EDIT:
OP: I will try to answer your question about how difficult it is to get a residency in Canada as an American.
I dug a bit around CaRMS, and this is what I found.
The first iteration of the match is open to both Canadian graduates and IMG's (including Americans) who have not yet received any graduate training. See the requirements below:
It looks like the match success rate for American MD graduates is not actually made public (arghh!).
However, this is a link for 2010 that summarizes success statistics for all IMGs (including Americans) who were allowed to participate in iteration 1.
The success rate for American IMGs is most likely higher than the one for the whole applicant pool (are PDs more likely to take people from the USA than from Bulgaria? probably. they are probably more familiar with American schools than with Bulgarian ones, and some bias probably exists as well)
Either way, here are some success percentages:
Cardiac surgery (0/2)
0% success rate
Family medicine (108/733)
15% success rate
Medical genetics (1/3)
33% success rate
Dermatology (1/12)
8% success rate
Urology (1/16)
6% success rate
As you can see, the sample sizes are often very small, and many unknown variables exist. These include country of education, connections to the program (hooray for sons of program directors going to the Caribbean and then magically matching back to dermatology 😛), and where the electives were done by the students.
http://fhs.mcmaster.ca/mdprog/documents/Classof2012.pdf
Average GPA of the entering class: 3.89
This puts Canadian medical schools (they are pretty much all have the same difficulty of getting into - there is no such thing as "upper tier" or "lower tier", people are happy to get a single acceptance anywhere at all) on par with upper-tier American schools. 👎
Sucks to be Canadian is all I can say. On the other hand, as another poster has mentioned, the field is a lot more "protected" from IMGs, so there is less competition and therefore (by basic economic principles) higher salaries (this is true in some fields, but not in most, since there is a single payer system).
This thread might help with figuring out the matching process:
http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46559
On the other hand, this thread doesn't really help American citizens trying to match to Canada.
I think (this is my opinion) that the biggest benefit is just to do as many 3rd/4th year electives in Canada. Having LOR's from Canadian physicians at hospitals of known quality is very helpful for other Canadian Program Directors.
This is not at all because Canadian hospitals are "better" than American ones, but PD's just in general feel more comfortable when the LOR is coming from their med school classmate working in the next city over (as opposed to someone they've never heard of).
EDIT:
OP: I will try to answer your question about how difficult it is to get a residency in Canada as an American.
I dug a bit around CaRMS, and this is what I found.
The first iteration of the match is open to both Canadian graduates and IMG's (including Americans) who have not yet received any graduate training. See the requirements below:
(I am not sure if LCME grads from MD schools need to write the MCCEE test, but DOs and other IMGs need to write this test)
It looks like the match success rate for American MD graduates is not actually made public (arghh!).
However, this is a link for 2010 that summarizes success statistics for all IMGs (including Americans) who were allowed to participate in iteration 1.
The success rate for American IMGs is most likely higher than the one for the whole applicant pool (are PDs more likely to take people from the USA than from Bulgaria? probably. they are probably more familiar with American schools than with Bulgarian ones, and some bias probably exists as well)
Either way, here are some success percentages:
Cardiac surgery (0/2)
0% success rate
Family medicine (108/733)
15% success rate
Medical genetics (1/3)
33% success rate
Dermatology (1/12)
8% success rate
Urology (1/16)
6% success rate
As you can see, the sample sizes are often very small, and many unknown variables exist. These include country of education, connections to the program (hooray for sons of program directors going to the Caribbean and then magically matching back to dermatology 😛), and where the electives were done by the students.
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It turns out that there are some statistics specifically for American medical school graduates.
They are at this link.
The numbers don't look as bad as those for all IMG's put together:
69% (24/35) of graduates matched to either their 1st or 2nd program choice in 2010
29% (10/35) did not match to any program
So, only a handful of American medical students even applied to CaRMS. I wonder how many of them are on this forum. 🙂
They are at this link.
The numbers don't look as bad as those for all IMG's put together:
69% (24/35) of graduates matched to either their 1st or 2nd program choice in 2010
29% (10/35) did not match to any program
So, only a handful of American medical students even applied to CaRMS. I wonder how many of them are on this forum. 🙂
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