Residency Contract Issue - Advice Appreciated

[LAS4440]

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I need some advice on a contract issue that I may be facing in the near future. Sadly, my mother was just diagnosed with breast cancer and I am looking to transfer to another program much closer to home to finish my preliminary medicine year.

Are there any contract issues that would prohibit me from making this switch? That is, is there any way that the program I am trying to transfer out of could prohibit me from doing so? I have already spoken to the DME at the place I am hoping to transfer to and they have a space available and will transfer the months I have already completed. I just need to be able to head into my advanced program on time on July 1, 2008...

Thanks for any advice you can provide!

 

[Winged Scapula]

I need some advice on a contract issue that I may be facing in the near future. Sadly, my mother was just diagnosed with breast cancer and I am looking to transfer to another program much closer to home to finish my preliminary medicine year.

Are there any contract issues that would prohibit me from making this switch? That is, is there any way that the program I am trying to transfer out of could prohibit me from doing so? I have already spoken to the DME at the place I am hoping to transfer to and they have a space available and will transfer the months I have already completed. I just need to be able to head into my advanced program on time on July 1, 2008...

Thanks for any advice you can provide!

Can they try and enforce the contract you signed? Yes. But most programs won't...its not worth the legal troubles and cost and since you have a more than adequate reason for leaving, it would be pretty callous of them to try.

Ask the program you are considering transferring into what they require...ie, if they require a letter of support from your current PD and what would happen if he/she was so bitter about you leaving that they refused to give you one. Assuming you have talked to your current PD, you can assess the likelihood of that happening.

An employment contract is not indentured servitude where you cannot leave or quit. There are unlikely to be any penalties financial or otherwise, for quitting. The worst that could happen would be that the current PD would not support you and the other program then doesn't give you credit for the months you've done, but that's pretty unlikely, IMHO.

 

[Faebinder]

Can they try and enforce the contract you signed? Yes. But most programs won't...its not worth the legal troubles and cost and since you have a more than adequate reason for leaving, it would be pretty callous of them to try.

Ask the program you are considering transferring into what they require...ie, if they require a letter of support from your current PD and what would happen if he/she was so bitter about you leaving that they refused to give you one. Assuming you have talked to your current PD, you can assess the likelihood of that happening.

An employment contract is not indentured servitude where you cannot leave or quit. There are unlikely to be any penalties financial or otherwise, for quitting. The worst that could happen would be that the current PD would not support you and the other program then doesn't give you credit for the months you've done, but that's pretty unlikely, IMHO.

Some might disagree with you and say that this is a training contract not an employment. It's my honest opinion that interrupting the first year of residency is THE most dangerous move you can do in your career in medicine. It will come back to haunt you many times until you are board certified (maybe even after you try and switch specialties). I would look into moving your mom over to where you are for the rest of this year and then look into transfering into another program back where you want to move for the following year. Otherwise I am sorry to hear about your mom and personally if I was the PD I would not hold it against you. I hope your PD is humane enough to be the same.

 

[yaah]

You might have to do a lot of talking and negotiating - the best hope might be to finish out the academic year, unfortunately. It leaves a lot of work to be done by one less intern, which means more work for everyone else.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Some might disagree with you and say that this is a training contract not an employment. It's my honest opinion that interrupting the first year of residency is THE most dangerous move you can do in your career in medicine. It will come back to haunt you many times until you are board certified (maybe even after you try and switch specialties). I would look into moving your mom over to where you are for the rest of this year and then look into transfering into another program back where you want to move for the following year. Otherwise I am sorry to hear about your mom and personally if I was the PD I would not hold it against you. I hope your PD is humane enough to be the same.

I don't necessarily disagree with you...legally the contract is an employment contract and residency programs cannot force you to stay. That was my point in anwering the question the OP asked. He/she did not ask whether it was a good idea. To that question, I agree with you...its not because it can have implications for your career...a bitter PD can make further training difficult to obtain if he/she decides to shaft you for leaving.

However, there are times when you have to consider your family first. Moving his/her mom closer sounds great, but if she's employed with health insurance, its not so easy to move about and get covered medical care for her disease.

 

[Tired]

However, there are times when you have to consider your family first.

First you tell us you still have periods, then you bust out this kind of statement. Who are you, and what happened to the General Surgeon?

 

[Winged Scapula]

First you tell us you still have periods, then you bust out this kind of statement. Who are you, and what happened to the General Surgeon?

Dude...the OP is doing Prelim Medicine, so he is destined for a non-surgical career, perhaps even a "lifestyle specialty". I can't give him the same advice (eg, sometimes you have to consider your family first) that I would to my surgical brethren.

Remember in surgery, there's no crying or calling in sick and its perfectly acceptable to brag about the high divorce rate in your program, how many times you lied about your hours and to round on patients who look better than you do!

 

[Faebinder]

Dude...the OP is doing Prelim Medicine, so he is destined for a non-surgical career, perhaps even a "lifestyle specialty". I can't give him the same advice (eg, sometimes you have to consider your family first) that I would to my surgical brethren.

Remember in surgery, there's no crying or calling in sick and its perfectly acceptable to brag about the high divorce rate in your program, how many times you lied about your hours and to round on patients who look better than you do!

The similarity to my program is frightening. You didn't move to Florida did you? heh.

 

[mdjobexchange]

I agree that you should try to move her closer to you for the year. Your current program cannot make you stay or sue you for quitting. You are an employee of a hospital, not the star quarterback of the Packers. Not to mention....how much money can you hope to get out of an intern?

The bigger problem will be later in life . Switching will affect your training and it is going to be very complicated explaining this over and over. People will be suspicious and may not even want to interview you when they see that on your resume.

 

[3dtp]

I agree that you should try to move her closer to you for the year. Your current program cannot make you stay or sue you for quitting. You are an employee of a hospital, not the star quarterback of the Packers. Not to mention....how much money can you hope to get out of an intern?

The bigger problem will be later in life . Switching will affect your training and it is going to be very complicated explaining this over and over. People will be suspicious and may not even want to interview you when they see that on your resume.

Agree in part, disagree in part.

Have had absolutely no problems interviewing/getting interviews. Have had no problems with credentials either. Now have a few offers to choose from, so getting the work hasn't been an issue either.

Things happen, people know they do. There are a.) bona fide reasons to switch programs, b.) malignant programs and c.) malignant residents out there in the world. We all know politics and internecine warfare in medicine, particularly in residency is rampant. A vicious program will try to make your life miserable, or as one hospital attorney was reported to have said, "bring it on...I love a good cat fight." Not my idea of a good attorney, since they're supposed to keep you out of trouble, not make waves to swamp the boat, but there you have it.

You will have to explain repeatedly why you switched and if your present program director is unhappy with your decision, it could very well create downstream issues.

That being said, these issues are explainable, and given your mother's health concerns, justifiable and a PD who opposes such a move would confirm to the outsiders that you are coming from a potentially malignant program. Facts and plain reason are on your side. The only risk you have as I see it is if your present PD balks, refuses to write a letter or delays passing on credentials, it could delay your completion of your new program and your residency program might use that as a reason to void your match and pick someone else. Check with your residency program and get something in writing from them to make sure they are ok with the transfer.

mdjobexch, the hospital won't sue, but the residency match/contract has such fearful power over the lives of residents with little checks that they don't need to sue. They can try (and occasionally do) destroy people who cross them. And that includes leaving their precious program.

 

[johankriek]

Some might disagree with you and say that this is a training contract not an employment. It's my honest opinion that interrupting the first year of residency is THE most dangerous move you can do in your career in medicine. It will come back to haunt you many times until you are board certified (maybe even after you try and switch specialties). I would look into moving your mom over to where you are for the rest of this year and then look into transfering into another program back where you want to move for the following year. Otherwise I am sorry to hear about your mom and personally if I was the PD I would not hold it against you. I hope your PD is humane enough to be the same.

umm

there are docs who are recovering crack heads, morphine addicts, alcoholics. who have committed medicare fraud multipple times over who have lawsuits 5 pages long who are just downright nasty people who are still practicing after having their licenses suspended multipl times .. I highly doubt switching out of a prlim program for a good reason will have any impact whatsoever save a little more writing on applications maybe a few lines and a zip code. thats it..

 

[Faebinder]

umm

there are docs who are recovering crack heads, morphine addicts, alcoholics. who have committed medicare fraud multipple times over who have lawsuits 5 pages long who are just downright nasty people who are still practicing after having their licenses suspended multipl times .. I highly doubt switching out of a prlim program for a good reason will have any impact whatsoever save a little more writing on applications maybe a few lines and a zip code. thats it..

You are looking at this from a comfortable pedestal of being a licensed attending. It's not the same down here at the resident level. Yes of course we hear of reformed previous drug addict anesthesiologists who are now addiction psychiatrists or evil general surgeons who got sued one day and became general practioners. The OP is not in that position. Unless his credentials are very good, I would not recommend it. (Good scores on the steps 1st try and a PD letter that doesn't say he's "unworthy").

 

[johankriek]

You are looking at this from a comfortable pedastel of being a licensed attending. It's not the same down here at the resident level. Yes of course we hear of reformed previous drug addict anesthesiologists who are now addiction psychiatrists or evil general surgeons who got sued one day and became general practioners. The OP is not in that position. Unless his credentials are very good, I would not recommend it. (Good scores on the steps 1st try and a PD letter that doesn't say he's "unworthy").

you give way too much worth to a PD.. he cant harm yo uas bad as you think he can.... if the op was in medical school i would say different.. But she graduated and is a physician already.. i stand by my statement.. and i am not on a pedestal nor am i comfortable

 

[countdookie]

Your mother is far less important than your program director. Think of the pain you will cause him!! He is a human being, too. You should stop being so selfish and stay where you are. Mothers come and go, but program directors are forever! No matter what you decide, I support you! 🙂

 

[Wednesday]

Okay, I'm not an expert in this, but most PDs will let people leave if they have a good reason and no longer want to be there. I mean, there are people to take these spots and no one wants a miserable intern around. It seems like you have a really valid reason. PLUS you already have an advanced spot AND you already have an internship to switch into. I don't really see the problem. Who is going to give you trouble besides your current PD? I don't think you will have license problem. But the safe thing would be to 1. call your state licensing board and ask if this will be a problem. And 2. talk to your current PD. Just talking to them shouldn't turn them against you forever. These people are actually people too. Strange huh? I mean, people who have wives and husbands and children and MOTHERS of their own. Just because you're training, your life doesn't stop. I can't figure out why people of authority scare all of us so much in medicine. Anyway, the last thing to do would be to 3. talk to your advanced program and see if it will be a problem.

I'm sorry about your mother and I hope things work out for you. It sounds like things already are for the most part (I mean, of course, work stuff). Good luck.

 

[JohnnyD]

I actually asked this question on another form too but wanted to get people's opinions on this page too.

I am a PGY1 at a US program. I am originally from Canada but have done all of my school in the US. I had thought seriously about going back to Toronto (my hometown) for residency and entered both the Canadian and US matches. However I only applied to one program in Canada, at University of Toronto (because my family is there). To make a long story short, I really liked Toronto's program, but the timing of the matches was such that the US one took place two days before the Canadian one. If one matches in the US match, you are automaticlly withdrawn from the Canadian one. This is what happened to me so I never got a chance to see if I would have matched to Toronto.

Fast forwarding to the present now. I have been in touch with the Toronto program and they told me they would have taken me if I had not been withdrawn. About 6 weeks ago, the program director told me that that in what is apparently a rare event, the program had extra funding and would be able to fund an extra spot. The director has offered me the opportunity to join the program. The slight twist is that he really wants me to start in January to make the transition smoother and because the structure of my current program and the Toronto program begin to differ at that point in time.

I am very excited and thankful that this opportunity has presented itself as I have been away from home for so long and have wanted to return for some time but circumstances have not allowed it. However, I know it is a bit odd to want to leave mid year from my program. Some people have told me I need to do this for me and that a fairly large program like mine can deal with this type of scheduling change, as when someone takes maternity leave. On the other hand I don't want to do something unprofessional or unethical by leaving mid year. I know in the end I am free to do what I choose but I would love to hear people's thoughts on this and also if anyone has heard of a situation of someone leaving not at the end of an academic year. Thanks so much and look forward to reading your thoughts.

 

[Faebinder]

I actually asked this question on another form too but wanted to get people's opinions on this page too.

I am a PGY1 at a US program. I am originally from Canada but have done all of my school in the US. I had thought seriously about going back to Toronto (my hometown) for residency and entered both the Canadian and US matches. However I only applied to one program in Canada, at University of Toronto (because my family is there). To make a long story short, I really liked Toronto's program, but the timing of the matches was such that the US one took place two days before the Canadian one. If one matches in the US match, you are automaticlly withdrawn from the Canadian one. This is what happened to me so I never got a chance to see if I would have matched to Toronto.

Fast forwarding to the present now. I have been in touch with the Toronto program and they told me they would have taken me if I had not been withdrawn. About 6 weeks ago, the program director told me that that in what is apparently a rare event, the program had extra funding and would be able to fund an extra spot. The director has offered me the opportunity to join the program. The slight twist is that he really wants me to start in January to make the transition smoother and because the structure of my current program and the Toronto program begin to differ at that point in time.

I am very excited and thankful that this opportunity has presented itself as I have been away from home for so long and have wanted to return for some time but circumstances have not allowed it. However, I know it is a bit odd to want to leave mid year from my program. Some people have told me I need to do this for me and that a fairly large program like mine can deal with this type of scheduling change, as when someone takes maternity leave. On the other hand I don't want to do something unprofessional or unethical by leaving mid year. I know in the end I am free to do what I choose but I would love to hear people's thoughts on this and also if anyone has heard of a situation of someone leaving not at the end of an academic year. Thanks so much and look forward to reading your thoughts.

your situation is different, you got a position waiting for you.