Residency in France..

[Long Hair and a Beard]

Anyone got any insight on doing residency in France?

I hear you have to repeat the last two years of medical degree there...

Is that correct? What else is required? Do they have a licenscing examination like MLE/PLAB? What colleges accept foreign students there? Any first hand experiences?

And I hope this thread doesn't turn into a discussion on whether US medical education/hospital care is better than that in France... or even vice versa...

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[Peeshee]

That is a very good question. I would think that if you already have your medical degree from another country, that you could go directly to France and do your postgraduate training. If you want to practice in France, that is another story, which might be more difficult. Really, I am not too sure about this...Hope someone from Europe can answer this for you.

 

[BellKicker]

I'm not at all sure but...........

I would be very surprised if you had to repeat actual med school years to practice in France. The only reason for this would be that they don't recognize 4 year degrees but even that sounds unlikely.

What they do have, probably, are a bunch of tests that are probably more practical in nature than what you might expect in the US.

As for practicing (and this is the only part I'm a little sure of), there would be many opportunities for obtaining something like a house officer position. But bear in mind that these positions will bring you nowhere. Getting into a training position that will lead to a specialty is very hard. This is in contrast to the US where any residency will take you somewhere. In Europe, you could potentially work your whole life as a house officer and never get anywhere. The good part of this is that virtually everyone can work (if they pass the tests). The bad part is that it's scut monkey work and it won't automatically bring you anywere in your career. However, it does pay well. Residents here (in Scandinavia but probably also in France) get a bit more than in the US (and adjusted for hours a LOT more).

Keep in mind all the maybes and probablys in this post. I really don't know much about it.

As a little anecdote I can tell you that a PGY2 doc from a hospital where I did a clerkship got a 3 month position in the French Alps where he's working with this emergency helicopter team that flies out to ski accidents. That in itself i was enough to make me very jealous but then I heard he got paid tons of money and every other day off to ski!!

Later. Peeshee, how the studying going?

 

[Long Hair and a Beard]

Good points Bellkicker.. Thanx...

I believe the reason they want the last two years repeated is the problem of language change.. You know, learning all the medical terms in French..

Peeshee, since residency involves a fair bit of practicing medicine, joining a residency would require you get the license to practice first... Though the French system could be different...

Anyone else?

 

[stassart]

Do do a specialty training in France one has to do an exam which is called "le concours d'internat". It has a reputation of being very difficult and theoretical, it covers all your medical school training and takes 2 days. Based upon your score, you are ranked on a national ranking list which determines your choice of specialty. In other words the higher your score the higher priority to chose. There are 3 quota groupes, one for french graduates, one for all other EU-graduates and finaly one for non EU-graduates. If you are in the non EU group and succeeds to secure a place, you are being payed during your formation but not allowed to work in France or in the EU afterwards.

 

[Long Hair and a Beard]

Thanx stassrt.. Merci beacoup..

This makes things look bright..

stassart, could you explain a few more things..

I suspect non-EU candidates would be considered only after local and EU candiates have been accommodated in seats of their choice.. Or is there a fixed percentage of seats in each department to be filled by candidates in each category? If it's the former case, are there any clinical residency seats left for foreign non-EU graduates? What sort of branches can a foreign graduate aspire for? And what kind of competition is there for those seats?

Are all the positions involving academics? Or are there some 'House Officer' jobs too, like Bellkicker hinted?

How long would the preparation for the examination take? How long do you people spend on it? And since I haven't really taken a look at how different medicine would look like in French.. is it very difficult for an English-speaking person to learn all those terms en francais?

stassart, Je peux dire tout ca en francais aussi, mais il est interdit sur les forums. Postez-moi un pm si vous voulez converser en francais.. Merci encore.

 

[stassart]

Hello long hair,
Actually there is a great site, in French of course, that explains everything about l'internat en m?decine on http://www.cnci.univ-paris5.fr/. Students spend about a year to prepare for it, usually during the last year of medical school. Many take private courses in the evenings and some of these preparatory programs function on a concours system, which means that there is an entrance examination and only the best are admitted....that?s France....
There is a fixed number of places for each of those quota groups so you will not compete with the French and the EU students. Most non EU students comes from the french speaking african countries, but I'm not familiar with the level of competition in that group. Sorry, the term house officer is unknown to me, but once you have a position you are working as an interne (candidat sp?cialist).
Hope that this does not discourage you, Long hair!
A plus.

 

[Long Hair and a Beard]

Hey stassart!!

The link is wonderful. Merci. Right now I am going through it, and it's taking all my effort to understand what's written in there.. I'm sure I'll have a lot of questions for you when I'm done reading.

Tough examinations don't discourage me at all. And learning it all again en fran?ais only adds glamour to it.

A house officer is a non-academic post where you work equal to a resident but are not taught any specialty. It's okay as a stepping stone to posts where they teach you something.. but like Bellkicker pointed out, it's not pretty to get stuck with posts like that all your life.

 

[Long Hair and a Beard]

Hey stassart, if you are still listening, here are some questions for you.. (Anyone else with any insight on the topic, please respond too..)

1. What is 'Medecine du Travail'?

2. I still am not sure what the length of the course is.. And is it any different for French and international medical graduates? At one place it says:

Le candidat re?u au concours pr?pare un DES. Il re?oit une formation th?orique et pratique ? plein temps pour laquelle il s?est inscrit au concours.

Durant sa formation, l?interne ? titre ?tranger percevra une r?mun?ration mensuelle. Il aura le statut d?interne comme les ?tudiants fran?ais de 3?me cycle de m?decine sp?cialis?e.

Does this mean we join French students in 'troisieme cycle' and hence have only three more years before completion?

3. Do we have to specify at the beginning of application process itself what specialization we are interested in? And only one choice is allowed?

4. I am not sure what this means:
La formation et les stages : pour obtenir des renseignements sur la formation et les stages qui sont dispens?s au cours de l?internat ? titre ?tranger, il vous est recommand? de prendre contact directement avec le service de la scolarit? (du 3?me cycle des ?tudes m?dicales) de la facult? de m?decine de vote choix .

5. While specifying speciality, would 'Specialite medicale' suffice, or do we have to be more specific, and say 'nephrologie' or 'neurologie'?

6. Could you give me some example of questions in both the 'Epreuve d'admissibilite' and 'Epreuve d'admission'?

7. Do you know a French medical forum similar to SDN?

I think I better start hunting links in French embassy here for next year..

thanx again..

 

[giselle]

I have some answers I think...

1. "M?decine du travail" is a speciality you work for companies or for the state. Your job consists in examining the people who work in a place in order to do some prevention. It means you're trying to detect early high blood pressure, or kidney, or heart problems, ... But you don't follow the patients, you won't cure them. You will only say : "okay, you have some heart problem, then go and see a cardiologist"...

2. The length of the residency depends on the speciality you chose. To become a GP, you have 3 years residency... to become a surgeon, 4 or 5 years as instance.
If you want to have your own practice in france and not to work all your life as a "faisant fonction d'interne", you will have tu pass an other compretition called "PCEM1" : it's the first year of medical studies in france, it's quite hard : only 15 or 20 % of the students can pass it.

3. If the system of residency is the same for foreign students as for the french ones, you choose you speciality and your town according to the score you got at the "internat". If you had a bad score, you will only have little choice, and probably you won't get the speciality you wanted.

4. It means that if you want more information about the lectures and the responsibilities on the wards, you should ask the medical school where you want to go.

5. As I have explained upper, you say : I want to do a speciality, and you give your preferred choices in order. For example,
1. Dermatology in paris
2. Dermatology in Lyon
3. Dermatology in Nice
4. Nephrology in Paris
5. Cardiology in Paris......

6. No, I don't prepare the internat yet

7. Of course : it's called Rem?de for "Regroupement des ?tudiants en m?decine", and I'm one of the administrators : http://www.remede.org
More specifically for you : http://forums.remede.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=15
This forum is the international one.

If you have more questions, I hope I could answer you.

giselle

 

[Long Hair and a Beard]

Hey giselle Merci beaucoup

I visited your forum.. Seems like a nice place.. But I'll have to brush up my french before I start posting there..


A few more questions, s'il vous plait...

1. You said after the internat, one might end up functioning solely as an intern... But I think i read something about a DES (Diplome d'etudes specialise) on the CNCI website.. Can't we give that after the residency period?

2. Could you outline the procedure for practising and settling in France; or give me a link where I could find the info?

3. I might not want to settle in France.. (Nothing against France really, but I might want to return to India after residency..) Do I still have to give that PCEM?

4. How competitive is the internat for the foreign students? I know that is a very vague thing to ask.. But still I would appreciate any insight...

Merci encore

 

[Skip Intro]

What about the ability for doctors from other countries to come to France to do fellowships, etc.? Seems like that would be interesting.

-Skip

 

[giselle]

Look at http://www.cnci.univ-paris5.fr/cnci_etr/cnci_etr.html

1. The DES is a diplom given when you pass an exam at the end of the internat. When you get it, you are a specialized physician.

2. http://www.cochin.univ-paris5.fr/enseignement/Scolarit%E9/Inscriptions/etuet.htm
You will find some answers to you questions there (but in French)

3. No you will only achieve your residency in france, and then come come back to india (it's explained in the former link).

4. I don't know but I think it's as competitive as for us. It means very competitive...



giselle

 

[junnny]

I would love to meet a French medical student who is in a us medical school.....
I'm a French Pre med and I would like to know the challenges a French student would face in a us med school