Residency match from an unranked med school

[Old ortho]

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[Depakote]

Seems like most med schools adcomm put a lot more emphasis in the applicant's quality (MCAT, GPA, extracurricular activities, LOR, essay and interview) than what undergrad school the applicant comes from - possibly with the exception for a few elite schools like Harvard and Johns Hopkins. Is that the same case when you apply for a residency when you graduate from med school?

As a California pre-med, I have been put on waitlists by my state school and a couple OOS mid tier schools . Fortunately, I have been accepted by a so called safety school (NYMC), which is unranked by U. S. News. I would like to come back to California to enter a good residency program possibly in internal medicine. How important is it when you apply for residency whether you come from a higher ranked school (e.g. Mount Sinai, UC-San Diego) or from an unranked school (e.g. NYMC, Drexel)? This question does not include the few elite schools like Harvard and Johns Hopkins since they may be at a class by themselves.

Don't worry... I'm sure with your attitude, all kinds of doors will open for you.

 

[alwaysaangel]

Don't worry... I'm sure with your attitude, all kinds of doors will open for you.

 

[smq123]

As a California pre-med, I have been put on waitlists by my state school and a couple OOS mid tier schools . Fortunately, I have been accepted by a so called safety school (NYMC), which is unranked by U. S. News. I would like to come back to California to enter a good residency program possibly in internal medicine. How important is it when you apply for residency whether you come from a higher ranked school (e.g. Mount Sinai, UC-San Diego) or from an unranked school (e.g. NYMC, Drexel)? This question does not include the few elite schools like Harvard and Johns Hopkins since they may be at a class by themselves.

Whichever US News and World Report editor had the brilliant idea of ranking med schools, and then marketing those rankings to pre-med students deserves to die a horrible painful death. Preferably in an "unranked" hospital, just so the irony is complete.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Whichever US News and World Report editor had the brilliant idea of ranking med schools, and then marketing those rankings to pre-med students deserves to die a horrible painful death. Preferably in an "unranked" hospital, just so the irony is complete.

Wouldn't the irony be complete if it was in a "ranked" hospital ...?

 

[alwaysaangel]

Whichever US News and World Report editor had the brilliant idea of ranking med schools, and then marketing those rankings to pre-med students deserves to die a horrible painful death. Preferably in an "unranked" hospital, just so the irony is complete.

Eh, I think its the premeds own faults for not looking at the measurement factors and realizing themselves how full of **** it is.

 

[alwaysaangel]

Wouldn't the irony be complete if it was in a "ranked" hospital ...?

Typically all schools are ranked but they only publish the top 50. So the "unranked" schools are the bottom 75.

So an "unranked" hospital would be one on the low unpublished end of the list.

 

[smq123]

Wouldn't the irony be complete if it was in a "ranked" hospital ...?

No, because, in an unranked hospital, the last thought going through his/her head would be "I really need someone, anyone to help me. I guess rankings don't matter as much as I used to think...."

Either way - it was a lousy idea on the part of that editor.

 

[AnEyeLikeMars]

Eh, I think its the premeds own faults for not looking at the measurement factors and realizing themselves how full of **** it is.

I agree, but I definitely think that the schools shared just as much of the blame. They love to flaunt their "top ranked" programs and they'll let you know if they're top ten. They even flaunt the US News America's Best Hospitals rankings which are probably just as sketchy.

The pre-meds want the rankings. US News is business savvy and does the rankings (and makes lots of money). Since they're being ranked, schools are forced to play the game to appeal to applicants. And it gets perpetuated.

 

[DrBowtie]

Typically all schools are ranked but they only publish the top 50. So the "unranked" schools are the bottom 75.

So an "unranked" hospital would be one on the low unpublished end of the list.

A lot of schools don't complete the survey for whatever reason so you can't make that assumption always.

 

[Law2Doc]

A lot of schools don't complete the survey for whatever reason so you can't make that assumption always.

If a school doesn't complete the survey we are forced to assume they most likely believed they would not be well ranked. High ranking is a huge boost for a med school, and they know the inference of not completing is the one I just indicated, so few schools which would be high ranked would not complete the survey.

As to the OP's question, all allo schools are decent launching pads for good residencies. Don't get sucked into the US News hype. The non-pre-med world doesn't really use such rankings as much. Do well, score high on Step 1, and maybe pick up a bit of research and you can do fine.

 

[alwaysaangel]

A lot of schools don't complete the survey for whatever reason so you can't make that assumption always.

I know some don't - the school I'm probably attending doesn't. But the vast majority do.

According to US News website: out of the 125 allo and 19 osteo schools surveyed, 126 returned responses.

So in general when people call a school "unranked" it means they are ranked low, not that they are one of the 18 schools that didn't participate.

 

[tp709]

I know some don't - the school I'm probably attending doesn't. But the vast majority do.

According to US News website: out of the 125 allo and 19 osteo schools surveyed, 126 returned responses.

So in general when people call a school "unranked" it means they are ranked low, not that they are one of the 18 schools that didn't participate.

Penn State is the only Allo school I know of that does not participate in the US news ranking system

 

[JosephFaecesMD]

A lot of schools don't complete the survey for whatever reason so you can't make that assumption always.

And the response rate for "prestige" rankings is around 10-20%. Completely worthless.

There is a self-selective bias for people who care about rankings. Guess who cares enough to respond? Thats right, PDs in highly ranked hospitals.

Its a bunch of BS and thankfully, most people see through it. I just feel sorry for the premeds who sell their soul (ie 250k in student loans) to go to a 'highly ranked' school. Ouch.

 

[alwaysaangel]

Penn State is the only Allo school I know of that does not participate in the US news ranking system

Well that info is from US News themselves, but no I don't know which are Osteo and which are allo.

I know GWU doesn't either and I assume there are a few more.

 

[tp709]

Its a bunch of BS and thankfully, most people see through it. I just feel sorry for the premeds who sell their soul (ie 250k in student loans) to go to a 'highly ranked' school. Ouch.

Well, unless they want to go into research, in which case frankly you're better off going into one of those higher-ranked schools. Because in that case, when the time comes for finding jobs, school reputation DEFINITELY matters.

 

[psipsina]

Well that info is from US News themselves, but no I don't know which are Osteo and which are allo.

I know GWU doesn't either and I assume there are a few more.

LSU-NO doesn't participate.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

No, because, in an unranked hospital, the last thought going through his/her head would be "I really need someone, anyone to help me. I guess rankings don't matter as much as I used to think...."

Either way - it was a lousy idea on the part of that editor.

However, if the person were to miserably suffer and die an excrutiating death at a "ranked" hospital -- that isn't so great, now is it?

 

[DoctorDork]

Seems like most med schools adcomm put a lot more emphasis in the applicant's quality (MCAT, GPA, extracurricular activities, LOR, essay and interview) than what undergrad school the applicant comes from - possibly with the exception for a few elite schools like Harvard and Johns Hopkins. Is that the same case when you apply for a residency when you graduate from med school?

As a California pre-med, I have been put on waitlists by my state school and a couple OOS mid tier schools . Fortunately, I have been accepted by a so called safety school (NYMC), which is unranked by U. S. News. I would like to come back to California to enter a good residency program possibly in internal medicine. How important is it when you apply for residency whether you come from a higher ranked school (e.g. Mount Sinai, UC-San Diego) or from an unranked school (e.g. NYMC, Drexel)? This question does not include the few elite schools like Harvard and Johns Hopkins since they may be at a class by themselves.

Well to answer your question it really doesn't matter where you go to school as much as it does matter what your step 1 score is and your GPA. I work in a lab at UCLA where one of the premeds that had my job went to NYMC for med school and matched at Cedars-Sinai hospital in radiology for residence (Cedars is where people like Brintey Spears, Gwen Stefani all have their kids). So within the community in LA at least its looked upon very highly. So it just goes to show that NYMC won't be what's holding you back form getting a good residency. And the resident in urology surgery in our lab went to med school at University of Medicine And Dentistry Of New Jersey and matched at UCLA (who boasts their urology surgery program is amongst the top in the country). Now he was validvictorian of his class and scored in the 99% of step 1, but it goes to show that if you do well in school, it doesn't matter where you go.
And Old Ortho, I really hope you that get in to wherever it is you want to go, because I want your spot at NYMC!!! Its my first choice and I still haven't heard a peep from them after interviewing.

 

[pennybridge]

Cedars is where people like Brintey Spears...have their kids

actually, Mrs. Federline had her second child at hospital affiliated with a Los Angeles area medical school....near the beach...


not that it matters, we all know that Britney gives birth out of her butt whilst on all fours over a bearskin rug....



http://www.stereogum.com/archives/002424.html

 

[Gut Shot]

Is that the same case when you apply for a residency when you graduate from med school?

Internal medicine, overall, is not very competitive. If you peform decently in med school and have reasonable board scores, you'll be able to match somewhere solid in California. It will be very helpful to demonstrate your willingness to move across the country again.

Hypercompetitive specialites are another story. If you end up shooting for derm, ortho, rad onc, etc. you'll have to be a lot more geographically flexible.

 

[Tired]

Internal medicine, overall, is not very competitive. If you peform decently in med school and have reasonable board scores, you'll be able to match somewhere solid in California. It will be very helpful to demonstrate your willingness to move across the country again.

Yes and no. Remember that the top IM programs are still hyper-competitive, and that includes UCLA, UCSF, and Stanford. Coming out of NYMC with anything other than top-tier scores makes it unlikely that you could sneak into those programs. But yes, for the rest of IM, including other schools in Cali, this is absolutely correct.

 

[Gut Shot]

Yes and no.

No, just yes. The OP didn't get into the nitty gritty of top vs. other IM programs, so my statement is completely accurate.

 

[Tired]

No, just yes. The OP didn't get into the nitty gritty of top vs. other IM programs, so my statement is completely accurate.

Your response lacks clarity, and your answer was incomplete.

Here's the OP's question:

"I would like to come back to California to enter a good residency program possibly in internal medicine. How important is it when you apply for residency whether you come from a higher ranked school (e.g. Mount Sinai, UC-San Diego) or from an unranked school (e.g. NYMC, Drexel)?"

and your answer:

"If you peform decently in med school and have reasonable board scores, you'll be able to match somewhere solid in California."

I suppose you and I may have different definitions of "good residency program" and "solid".

 

[FenderHM]

just check out our pizzle's rezidizzles

http://www.nymc.edu/Medical/match/2007/results.htm

 

[Robizzle]

just check out our pizzle's rezidizzles

http://www.nymc.edu/Medical/match/2007/results.htm

Damn... placement results perhaps??? I feel ashamed to have my name and not be certain.

 

[Roflcopter]

NYMC's match list is consistently solid. Have no worries about whatever some lame magazine (U.S. Noobs) thinks of your medical school.

 

[FenderHM]

Damn... placement results perhaps??? I feel ashamed to have my name and not be certain.

ha i meant our people's residencies

 

[EM_Rebuilder]

We had several people from my top tier number one ranked Texas Tech School of Medicine go to California for residency...


Residency has LITTLE to do with where you go to medical school.... they are MUCH more concerned about your rankings and Step scores. Personally, I went to a place where I could own a brick home less than 5 mins from school. I would not have went to California if you would have paid tuition for me...

Go where you will be happy. If you think you are only happy in CA then you might just have to compromise...

 

[8744]

Seems like most med schools adcomm put a lot more emphasis in the applicant's quality (MCAT, GPA, extracurricular activities, LOR, essay and interview) than what undergrad school the applicant comes from - possibly with the exception for a few elite schools like Harvard and Johns Hopkins. Is that the same case when you apply for a residency when you graduate from med school?

As a California pre-med, I have been put on waitlists by my state school and a couple OOS mid tier schools . Fortunately, I have been accepted by a so called safety school (NYMC), which is unranked by U. S. News. I would like to come back to California to enter a good residency program possibly in internal medicine. How important is it when you apply for residency whether you come from a higher ranked school (e.g. Mount Sinai, UC-San Diego) or from an unranked school (e.g. NYMC, Drexel)? This question does not include the few elite schools like Harvard and Johns Hopkins since they may be at a class by themselves.

It is vitally important. They will tell you otherwise but if you look at any match list from unranked schools you will see nothing but matches in Family Medicine and second and third rate internal medicine programs that have to take a lot of foreigners and DOs to even come close to filling. Essentially, if you go to an unranked school and want to go into academics or anything competitive, you have shot yourself in the foot and I would even consider deferring your acceptance and trying again next year.

As for the super-prestigious specialties well, the axiom "No Harvard, No Optho" is generally true although I'm sure you could find a few exceptions. My opthalmologist went to Dartmouth but I think you see that this doesn't really invalidate the axiom.

Sorry. I know people don't want to hear this but there it is.

 

[sirus_virus]

The most important thing to consider is the financial cost of attending the school.

 

[Gut Shot]

Your response lacks clarity, and your answer was incomplete.

You're right. I gave an answer on an anonymous message board that was incomplete and lacked clarity. Forgive me of my sins.

I suppose you and I may have different definitions of "good residency program" and "solid".

I put "good" and "solid" in the same vicinity. You're the one who had to break out "top" and "hyper-competitive."

According to NYMC's match list, they put 5 of 42 IM matches in California, including one at hyper-competitive UCLA.

 

[desout777]

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[Dookter]

I think this might show how little you know. It's pretty common knowledge that reapplicants who have received an acceptance usually have a very difficult time applying. Additionally, looking at match lists from unranked schools, it's obvious that those kids place well when they do well.




As for your comment about "No Harvard, No ophthalmology"... well there was a survey given to 1,200 residency program directors or which 793 responded (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=9934296&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum).
The Ophthamology program directors ranked the relative importance of academic criteria for selecting residents as follows:

1) Grades in required clerkships
2) Number of honors grades
3) Class rank
3) AOA honorary membership
5) Senior specialty elective grades
6) USMLE Step 2 score
7) USMLE Step 1 score
8) Academic awards in medical school
9) Med school's reputation
10) Other senior elective grades
11) Published research
12) Grades in preclinical courses

All of the other specialties (with the exception of psychiatry) gave "med school's reputation" a similarly low ranking.

OP - Sorry you didn't get into the program of your choice. Just do well wherever you go and you can still get into a competitive residency.

Ha ha ha. IT WAS A JOKE! Not only does he know a little, but he knows a lot. He's a resident.

 

[deleted128318]

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[8744]

...All of the other specialties (with the exception of psychiatry) gave "med school's reputation" a similarly low ranking...

Well, of course they claim to give it a low ranking. What else can they say? I mean, medical schools also claim to want minorities but you know as well as I do that checking anything other than "White" on the application will make them look for reasons to reject you even if you have stellar grades and board scores.

 

[dutchman]

Well, of course they claim to give it a low ranking. What else can they say? I mean, medical schools also claim to want minorities but you know as well as I do that checking anything other than "White" on the application will make them look for reasons to reject you even if you have stellar grades and board scores.

interesting.

 

[deleted128318]

Well, of course they claim to give it a low ranking. What else can they say? I mean, medical schools also claim to want minorities but you know as well as I do that checking anything other than "White" on the application will make them look for reasons to reject you even if you have stellar grades and board scores.

It's true, and if you check white and have an even remotely jewish-sounding last name, you are automatically accepted.

 

[Tired]

Well, of course they claim to give it a low ranking. What else can they say? I mean, medical schools also claim to want minorities but you know as well as I do that checking anything other than "White" on the application will make them look for reasons to reject you even if you have stellar grades and board scores.

What about the URM who took my spot at Harvard?!

 

[Depakote]

Well, of course they claim to give it a low ranking. What else can they say? I mean, medical schools also claim to want minorities but you know as well as I do that checking anything other than "White" on the application will make them look for reasons to reject you even if you have stellar grades and board scores.

Classic Panda. Classic.

 

[Doctor~Detroit]

It's true, and if you check white and have an even remotely jewish-sounding last name, you are automatically accepted.

that's why i changed my last name from smith to schmitzenberg.

 

[FenderHM]

desout i cant you thought that was serious. ROFLMAO or whatever that is

 

[pennybridge]

What about the URM who took my spot at Harvard?!

Dr. Rey?


edit// he went to Harvard, you know.

 

[Tired]

desout i cant you thought that was serious. ROFLMAO or whatever that is

What the hell did you just say?

 

[Pembleton]

What the hell did you just say?

Translation: ...I can't believe you thought that was serious...

 

[instigata]

blah

 

[FenderHM]

ha it was insert verb of choice

 

[Law2Doc]

Dr. Rey?


edit// he went to Harvard, you know.

He did a fellowship at Harvard, not his med school or residency. According to his online resume, he did med school at Tufts and residencies at Harbor-UCLA and Univ of Tenn.

 

[Tired]

He did a fellowship at Harvard, not his med school or residency. According to his online resume, he did med school at Tufts and residencies at Harbor-UCLA and Univ of Tenn.

I have no idea who Dr. Rey is?

And for the record, my URM comment was a joke. I am a strong supporter of Affirmative Action policies.

 

[Law2Doc]

I have no idea who Dr. Rey is?

And for the record, my URM comment was a joke. I am a strong supporter of Affirmative Action policies.

He's the headlining plastic surgeon on Dr 90210. I think he's brazillian.