Residency Question

[clc8503]

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Are the more competitive residencies more achievable if the student is willing to relocate anywhere in the nation, in order to get a spot in their desired residency? (Ex: Surgery, Radiology, Derm) Are their any AOA residency slots in areas that less students prefer not to relocate in?

Thanks,
Caraway

 

[stomper627]

Yes. General surgery is NOT as tough of a position to get anymore. Not saying its easy, just not as competitive.

 

[crys20]

Yeah of course if you'll go anywhere you're more likely to get into a certain specialty. Rads and derm are always going to be tough, for them you'll want to concentrate on rocking school and USMLE/COMLEX. But yeah ditto on general surgery not being comp.

 

[Khirurg]

Of course it is easier to get a place in the boonies. Less people want to go there and therefore less competition. that is not to say anyone can get in, or that they will take you. And as far as surgery not being competitive anymore, the applications are the highest they have been in a while. Leave these statements to someone who actually went through application process.

 

[stomper627]

Of course it is easier to get a place in the boonies. Less people want to go there and therefore less competition. that is not to say anyone can get in, or that they will take you. And as far as surgery not being competitive anymore, the applications are the highest they have been in a while. Leave these statements to someone who actually went through application process.

Hmm. This year I know of 2 people who failed both step 1 and 2 once (retaking both...and passed) and were placed in their number 1 gen surg choice. Both were in the bottom half of the class.
I realize that apps are up, but overall with the insurgence of Rads, Derm, Anest, EM, General surgery ISNT the hotbed it once was. Others are becoming much more lucrative as the surgeon doesnt make as much as other specialties with more risk.

 

[LSU-Tech]

Hmm. This year I know of 2 people who failed both step 1 and 2 once (retaking both...and passed) and were placed in their number 1 gen surg choice. Both were in the bottom half of the class.
I realize that apps are up, but overall with the insurgence of Rads, Derm, Anest, EM, General surgery ISNT the hotbed it once was. Others are becoming much more lucrative as the surgeon doesnt make as much as other specialties with more risk.

Did they take the USMLE, the COMPLEX, or both?

 

[stomper627]

comlex

 

[crys20]

Yeah I think more people are attracted to surg subspecialties than general, no?

 

[blufox80]

What is the point of taking USMLE??
Are there a lot of residency who only look at USMLE?
I am interested in derm... i know it is very competitive.
Do you think i should take both exams?

 

[Khirurg]

Were they accepted into DO surgery residency? Allopathic surgery is a different game, especially for DOs.

 

[crys20]

Well if you're looking for an allopathic derm residency I think you NEED to have the USMLE and ROCK IT. For osteo derm residencies you wouldn't need it just an AWESOME COMPLEX performace...

 

[Khirurg]

what i meant is that DO surgeries will literally take whoever they can because for the most part they are, eh....not very good, to be kind. There is a lot of people who didn't match into allopathic surgical residency this year. So, if these two guys got into DO residency, it doesn't mean that general surgery is not competitive all of a sudden. I am not saying that surgery is as competitive as Derm or Radiology, or whatever, but saying that it is not competitive anymore is misinforming. Application number is the highest it has been since late 90's. And the fact that people want to pursue surgical subspecialties over general (which is true, over 70% specialize) has nothing to do with application process: most of subspecialties require a general surgery training first.

 

[LSU-Tech]

what i meant is that DO surgeries will literally take whoever they can because for the most part they are, eh....not very good, to be kind. There is a lot of people who didn't match into allopathic surgical residency this year. So, if these two guys got into DO residency, it doesn't mean that general surgery is not competitive all of a sudden. I am not saying that surgery is as competitive as Derm or Radiology, or whatever, but saying that it is not competitive anymore is misinforming. Application number is the highest it has been since late 90's. And the fact that people want to pursue surgical subspecialties over general (which is true, over 70% specialize) has nothing to do with application process: most of subspecialties require a general surgery training first.

I don’t mean to start a flame war, but what is wrong with DO surgical residencies? Why are they not good? I respect your opinion and would like to know why this is the case.

 

[stomper627]

Were they accepted into DO surgery residency? Allopathic surgery is a different game, especially for DOs.

1 DO
1 allo....

 

[Khirurg]

DO surgical residencies, and DO residencies in general are usually at small community hospitals. That is not to say that community hospitals are bad idea. Some community hospitals are very busy and have very impressive training programs. However, if the hospital is busy enouhg to sustain residency, it is usually allopathic residency. So whatever is left, so to speak, goes to AOA. My experience is that DO surgery programs lack quality and quantity of cases for the most part. In New York at least, of notable programs are St. barnabas, which has good trauma service, but general surgery volume is not comparable to average general surgery residencies. Lutheran Hospital is busy but there are no big cases there and that is the reason that Downstate never sends its chiefs there and maimonidies took its residents out of there. Other programs are level below these ones. Chiefs in Penninsula Hospital didn't have enough cases to graduate, where on average chief in allopathic programs have enough cases by the time they are PGY-4.

 

[crys20]

I, too, have heard from many docs in the field that DO residencies in general can be a bit poor in terms of quality of training, esp the DO intern year. I mean, whatever, you take what you can get but if I end up going DO I will fight hard in school to try and get into the best program that I can. I love the DO profession, not trying to knock it, but i think it is a fact that many of the DO residencies are a bit poorer in quality than allo ones, ON AVG

 

[FlemishGiant]

Yeah but don't forget, no matter where you go, residency is what YOU make out of it and what opp's are avail to you.

 

[unk_fxn]

What is the point of taking USMLE??
Are there a lot of residency who only look at USMLE?
I am interested in derm... i know it is very competitive.
Do you think i should take both exams?

Unless you are 100% sure you want to do an AOA primary care program, strongly consider taking USMLE step 1. A lot of people will tell you its unnecessicary, but often they do not have your interests in mind giving that advice. I can tell you from my experience applying to allopathic EM programs, about half the programs where I interview specifically said in the interview they were glad I had taken the USMLE. I have had faculty at residency programs tell me that even if the scores aren't super-impressive just the fact that you have taken it shows a level of seriousness to your application.

I know of no one who took it who regreted it. I know of several people who regretted not taking it. You might think you can always go back and take it, which is technically true, but your basic sciences knowledge will rapidly atrophy after finishing your second year, so your window of opportunity is in fact limited.

When in doubt, take the USMLE. It will keep your options open.

 

[crys20]

Yeah but don't forget, no matter where you go, residency is what YOU make out of it and what opp's are avail to you.

see i always say it doesn't matter where you go to school because nearly everywhere it's up to you to teach yourself the material, to study, to learn, etc. But for residencies I think it might be different...Because if you don't see the cases there isn't anything you can do to give yourself experience, and you sort of need good people around you to lead and direct you. But what the hell do i know 🙂

 

[larke28]

so you only need USMLE step 1 scores for the AOA programs if you're applying from a DO school?

Unless you are 100% sure you want to do an AOA primary care program, strongly consider taking USMLE step 1. A lot of people will tell you its unnecessicary, but often they do not have your interests in mind giving that advice. I can tell you from my experience applying to allopathic EM programs, about half the programs where I interview specifically said in the interview they were glad I had taken the USMLE. I have had faculty at residency programs tell me that even if the scores aren't super-impressive just the fact that you have taken it shows a level of seriousness to your application.

I know of no one who took it who regreted it. I know of several people who regretted not taking it. You might think you can always go back and take it, which is technically true, but your basic sciences knowledge will rapidly atrophy after finishing your second year, so your window of opportunity is in fact limited.

When in doubt, take the USMLE. It will keep your options open.

 

[unk_fxn]

so you only need USMLE step 1 scores for the AOA programs if you're applying from a DO school?

You are completely confused.

AOA = DO programs = likes COMLEX / no need for USMLE

ACGME = "MD programs" (a misnomer, many have DO residents and faculty, and even a few have DO program directors) = USMLE is helpful.

Honestly I wouldnt have even posted this if I had realized this was the premed forum. There is no point even thinking about this until your second year.