Residency questions

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dlc6

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Hi all,
I am a rising third year seriously thinking about pathology but I don't really know much about the residency program. I know that it must differ for each school but I was hoping you all that are currently in a pathology residency program can give me an idea about what each of the four years involves. I understand that there typically isn't an intern/transitional year (which I like very much) but I was just told that there is some time during your residency where you are required to do a lot of clinical work on the wards, kind of like an intern. Is this true?
Dana
 
DLC here is a thread you might find interesting with some good websites to visit: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=101626

Programs do things differently. Path is split up into Anatomic path and Clinical path. You can do a residency in either one or both. Most people aside from people on a definite research and academic track do the combined residency. Individually, each is a 3 year program. Together, it is a 4 year program (clearly because 3+3=4, in case you were wondering). The required curriculum includes 18 months of AP (usually about 10 months surgical pathology, 4 months autopsy, 2-3 cytology, 1-2 dermpath, neuropath, renal path, etc) and 18 months of CP (Clinical chem, micro, immunology, blood bank/transfusion, hematology, informatics, etc etc etc). The remaining 12 months are elective time. (These # of months vary) Many people also do fellowships (sometimes at the same institution, sometimes at others) after the four years. Commonly this is surg path, cyto, some clin path field. Some will do multiple fellowships (i.e. surg path followed by GI path). But you can be board certified and be out in practice in general after 4 years.

Some programs start all residents on AP for one year (or even two years). Others will integrate CP and AP from the start. Where I am some of the residents have started on autopsy, some surg path, some like me on clinical. During some of the clinical months, again this depends on your program, you may have some level of contact with clinicians and patient wards (well, you're always going to have contact with clinicians, but you get my point). Blood banking sometimes requires visiting patients. Micro sometimes requires daily conferences in which you discuss specimens with medicine house staff, Cytology may require you to do FNAs.

You're right there is no transitional or prelim year. July 1 of PGY-1 you start with pathology. You don't have to worry about garbage like inserting IVs, writing discharge paperwork, admissions orders, etc although there are some tasks on clinical path months that have parts of these normal house staff activities included. Again, this varies based on the program you are at.

Most programs save most of your elective time until your 3rd or 4th year when you have a better idea on where you want your career to be going. There are also generally daily lectures or seminars on topics appropriate to the area you are in, and often weekly conferences for all the residents on things like interesting surg path slides, autopsy conferences, etc.

There is a lot of misinformation out there as to what pathologists and pathology residents do. I wouldn't trust much of what other med students you talk to (unless they are interested in path, in which case they may know what they are talking about) or what a lot of attendings from other specialties say. Who knows where a lot of the info comes from. Go talk to a pathologist if you have specific questions, I am sure your school has some people who would love to talk to someone who is interested and provide you with advice, programs to look at, etc.

Always good to see soon-to-be graduates interested in the best field in medicine!
 
Hey, I have a question:

Is there are way to find out if a program integrates AP and CP throughout the 4 years, short of finding the website to each program and looking up a typical AP/CP schedule?
 
That's what I figured. Although I like the idea of integrating both AP and CP during the 4 years, I imagine it would be pretty easy to get used to a schedule that separates the two. I'm not sure I'd particularly enjoy doing two full years of CP without doing any AP, though.
 
Brian Pavlovitz said:
That's what I figured. Although I like the idea of integrating both AP and CP during the 4 years, I imagine it would be pretty easy to get used to a schedule that separates the two. I'm not sure I'd particularly enjoy doing two full years of CP without doing any AP, though.

Having them done together makes it easy for vacations. But having them done together also runs the risk of jumping around a lot so that you don't get that comfortable with one or the other. I think the extreme opinions out there are a bit much. Both work well if the program makes it so. While I would prefer the program I am in to have things blocked a bit more consistently, I'm fine with the way it is. At a lot of places AP is done for the entire first year, but this is often split up one month of autopsy, one month surg path, one month cyto, etc. So it isn't a whole lot different from doing one month micro, one month autopsy, one month surg path, etc.

I can see benefits to both. I'm easy. I'll go with either schedule type. I don't know the answer to your question Brian. But you will find out on interviews.
 
If one decides to do AP only, is it like 2 years AP and then 1 year CP? I'm still debating on whether to do AP or AP/CP as the difference is only 1 year.
 
AndyMilonakis said:
If one decides to do AP only, is it like 2 years AP and then 1 year CP? I'm still debating on whether to do AP or AP/CP as the difference is only 1 year.

I'm pretty sure if you do AP only, you don't do any CP at all. The third year (from what I've seen anyway) is usually for "Advanced/Elective AP rotations".

I'm with you. I'm pretty certain that a fellowship of some kind is in my future (most likely cyto, perhaps hematology), so it seems that doing AP only would be just fine. Many of the jobs that I've seen ask for "AP or AP/CP certification", although I have seen those that ask for dual certification. Of course, it is only one more year. I suppose making yourself more "marketable" is a good thing...
 
In an AP/CP residency, the AP component is 18 months, the CP component is 18 months (all of required electives) and the remaining 12 months are electives.

In a straight AP or CP residency, I believe 24 months are required, and the remaining 12 months are elective.

There is some AP/CP overlap, thus if you do AP only you will, generally, be assigned to do some hemepath even though at many places this is a CP only discipline.

Andy, from what I have heard and learned, if you are sold on an academic or research career, you don't really need to do both at all unless there are areas of interest for you. You're right, it is only one year extra, which is part of the reason I decided to do combined.
 
I am doing my second residency in anat path (after 11 years of traning/ practice abroad in the field, I am IMG and passed the torture of exams and CARMS). What frustrates me- is the absence of any kind of system
in my residency program (despite think program modules description). Yes, the 12 months segment called AP, but it means everything. It is a ball****. No one can progress rapidly through such a tremendous amount of biopsy material without clear focus on GI, Gynepath, skin etc. They say these are all incorporated, but by swinging back and forth the whole process of learning becomes slow and inefficient. There is no protected time for autopsy training in my program- it looks like I should do all- autopsy, then swing to surgicals, then swing to endocsopy and then swing to some other academic ball****.
But it is still OK, bcs the most frustrating thing is not this, but the swinging from one supervising faculty to another- they all have different level of expertise and frequently do/interpret things differently. This is again fine, but they are teaching this way as well. Meaning- do it for me like this, and I don't care what other staff say.
For sure I will survive, but my feeling of joy of pathology disappears with all this mess.

Still smiling (socially) 😕 but 🙂
 
yaah said:
In an AP/CP residency, the AP component is 18 months, the CP component is 18 months (all of required electives) and the remaining 12 months are electives.

In a straight AP or CP residency, I believe 24 months are required, and the remaining 12 months are elective.

There is some AP/CP overlap, thus if you do AP only you will, generally, be assigned to do some hemepath even though at many places this is a CP only discipline.

Andy, from what I have heard and learned, if you are sold on an academic or research career, you don't really need to do both at all unless there are areas of interest for you. You're right, it is only one year extra, which is part of the reason I decided to do combined.

thanks yaah for the advice. i think we're on the same wavelength in terms of our thought processes. i still have yet to do an actual path rotation. it is certainly possible that i will do ap/cp combined after doing the rotation. my mantra during my whole md/phd training is to keep an open mind. and that will continue to be my approach in life during the last months of medical school. i hope to be enlightened. wish me luck 🙂
 
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