Resign or Fired?

[Stella14]

Does anyone think it will be more difficult to get a pharmacist job if you have to check the fired box on online applications nowadays ? Or should I resign before I get fired? I have 20+ years of experience and have never been fired , but I think with the oversupply of pharmacists that my resume will get weeded out before I could explain to a human what actually happened . I don't want to take unemployment and lie on application bc pharmacy is a small world and you can get fired for lying on your app .
Any experience with this or recommendations?

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[deleted480308]

Does anyone think it will be more difficult to get a pharmacist job if you have to check the fired box on online applications nowadays ? Or should I resign before I get fired? I have 20+ years of experience and have never been fired , but I think with the oversupply of pharmacists that my resume will get weeded out before I could explain to a human what actually happened . I don't want to take unemployment and lie on application bc pharmacy is a small world and you can get fired for lying on your app .
Any experience with this or recommendations?

Why do you think you will be fired?

 

[Stella14]

Why do you think you will be fired?

I have been on a performance improvement plan and it is not looking good . I was told I would be fired if I did not show improvement this week. Most of the items are subjective and not measurable. They are peers perceptions. Anyway, I have been jumping through hoops for them and it hasn't been good enough. I have been with this hospital for 9 months. The entire time I have been dealing with this plan. My last meeting is at the end of April, so I need to make a decision quick. There is a 75% chance I will be fired.

 

[Saiyo]

Hmmm i believe in retail they usually give you a chance to resign if you dont meet expectations because it's a hassle to fire someone....I think it should be similar in hospitals...

 

[Stella14]

Hmmm i believe in retail they usually give you a chance to resign if you dont meet expectations because it's a hassle to fire someone....I think it should be similar in hospitals...

I work for a large hospital network. I think they will meet with termination papers . It is not like I am in management or have a contract. I do not think they are worried about the money for unemployment , just getting sued overall . I new to protect my career and longevity in the field. 2 people I know said I should resign before I quit. Opinions?

 

[jblil]

I used to be in management at a large computer company. I had to fire one person, and had to gather a lot of evidence (documenting his shortfalls) before I could pull the trigger. Most "improvement plans" are designed to 1) build a case against you, and 2) ease you out and thus have very difficult-to-achieve or very subjective goals. I don't know the background of your situation, but I think resigning would be the better option. You can always find another job and say that you had to relocate, wanted a different environment, different hours, shorter commute, etc etc as the reason for leaving. If you are fired, getting the next gig will be more difficult. The unemployment you'll be able to draw by being fired would pale in comparison to what you'd make in another job.

 

[deleted820760]

Resign

 

[BMBiology]

Does anyone think it will be more difficult to get a pharmacist job if you have to check the fired box on online applications nowadays ? Or should I resign before I get fired? I have 20+ years of experience and have never been fired , but I think with the oversupply of pharmacists that my resume will get weeded out before I could explain to a human what actually happened . I don't want to take unemployment and lie on application bc pharmacy is a small world and you can get fired for lying on your app .
Any experience with this or recommendations?

Getting fired = unemployment benefits

You resigning = no unemployment benefits

Unless you got fired for some outrageous reason like stealing Oxycodone, most likely you will get unemployment benefits.

I think you would have a hard time getting a job whether you got fired or resigned. If you had resigned, people are going to wonder why you didn't wait and resign after you got a new job.

Would your employer let others know that you got fired? I don't think that would serve them any purpose. They want you to find a new job so you wouldn't come back and cause problems.

This is why I always tell people you need to have a plan. Don't expect to work for 30 years. Nothing will last forever.


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[Stella14]

Getting fired = unemployment benefits

You resigning = no unemployment benefits

Unless you got fired for some outrageous reason like stealing Oxycodone, most likely you will get unemployment benefits.

I think you would have a hard time getting a job whether you got fired or resigned. If you had resigned, people are going to wonder why you didn't wait and resign after you got a new job.

Would your employer let others know that you got fired? I don't think that would serve them any purpose. They want you to find a new job so you wouldn't come back and cause problems.

This is why I always tell people you need to have a plan. Don't expect to work for 30 years. Nothing will last forever.


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The hospital I work at is dangerously busy. We currently have 3 overnight pharmacists on each week and are approved for a fourth, but they are not hired yet. I can tell other people I left after 9 months without securing a new position bc they promised to get the 4th pharmacist and didn't . Also, I didn't want to hurt someone or lose my license. Which is technically true. My intention was to stay as long as i could to get more experience and have it look better on my resume, but I would have left eventually anyway.

 

[BMBiology]

The hospital I work at is dangerously busy. We currently have 3 overnight pharmacists on each week and are approved for a fourth, but they are not hired yet. I can tell other people I left after 9 months without securing a new position bc they promised to get the 4th pharmacist and didn't . Also, I didn't want to hurt someone or lose my license. Which is technically true. My intention was to stay as long as i could to get more experience and have it look better on my resume, but I would have left eventually anyway.

If you are making a lot of critical mistakes then yes, you should resign. You shouldn't put patients' lives at risk.


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[owlegrad]

I am surprised how many people are saying to go ahead and resign. You absolutely should not resign. You don't even know for sure if they will fire you, and if they do you should collect unemployment while you search for a new job. What advantage do you think quitting will bring you? I highly doubt quitting will make it easier to find a new job.

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[Stella14]

If you are making a lot of critical mistakes then yes, you should resign. You shouldn't put patients' lives at risk.


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I am not making any critical mistakes. It is very easy to do bc we actually need 4-4.5 pharmacists to do the job the 3 of us are doing. I am being nit picked for example that my peers feel they Answer the phone faster and more often than I do (untrue) and they are saying that this puts more work on them and patient safety is at risk - their HR jargon . When really we are short pharmacists overnight.
My goal now is not to fight about unemployment bc I would get it bc I have not committed any gross misconduct . I am not getting fired for lack of pharmacist competency or skills. It is subjective he said she said things from jealous peers , etc.
We are just not a good cultural fit.
My goal is to get re-employed asap and extend my career as long as possible.
I'm thinking the best way to do this is resign before I am most likely fired on my last review next week.
I want peoples opinions if this is a good strategy . I fear I will not get interviews if I am technically fired on the online applications, etc.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Does anyone think it will be more difficult to get a pharmacist job if you have to check the fired box on online applications nowadays ? Or should I resign before I get fired? I have 20+ years of experience and have never been fired , but I think with the oversupply of pharmacists that my resume will get weeded out before I could explain to a human what actually happened . I don't want to take unemployment and lie on application bc pharmacy is a small world and you can get fired for lying on your app .
Any experience with this or recommendations?

Why not just lie?

 

[Stella14]

Why not just lie?

Because pharmacy is a small world . People see your resume and know someone one at your previous job and unofficially ask about you or worse yet I just applied for a position that I had to electronically sign that the background company could look at all previous employee records and performance issues. Not just employment date verifications. If you get caught lying you get fired, then you are know as a liar and now you are fired twice.

 

[Stella14]

I am surprised how many people are saying to go ahead and resign. You absolutely should not resign. You don't even know for sure if they will fire you, and if they do you should collect unemployment while you search for a new job. What advantage do you think quitting will bring you? I highly doubt quitting will make it easier to find a new job.

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Quitting will allow me to not check the fired box on employment applications, especially online. Then you do not have to explain anything during an interview if you even get one. If you resign, you just have to explain why you left without another job first . I can't afford to go to the meeting when I'm 75% sure it is going to happen bc it would be too late to resign . The paperwork would be ready and you would be classified as terminated even if you handed your resignation in at the same time . At least that's what employment lawyers say.

 

[sosoo]

i would not resign, since it is all about performance, he say, she say kind of thing. if there is no dispensing error, i would wait to collect unemployment benefits, and file a lawsuit for wrongful termination. another option is to request FMLA leave. take 12 weeks off. they cannot fire u when u come back from FMLA. during that time apply for another job.

 

[KARM12]

The OP does not qualify for FMLA. You need to be on the job for 12 months.

 

[BenJammin]

1. Never EVER resign if you fear you'll be fired.
2. Unemployment benefits are a joke. They wouldn't pay my rent.
3. I have never seen "Have you ever been fired" on a job application.

 

[Old Timer]

Tell them you will resign if they agree not to fight unemployment.

 

[lord999]

I am surprised how many people are saying to go ahead and resign. You absolutely should not resign. You don't even know for sure if they will fire you, and if they do you should collect unemployment while you search for a new job. What advantage do you think quitting will bring you? I highly doubt quitting will make it easier to find a new job.

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If it isn't for something that is reportable (the aforementioned theft, being under the influence on duty, a patient care incident resulting in harm), take the termination and force HCA or your employer to write it down. Unemployment is a joke, but the weird part is that the hospital WOULD have to document it, and if you ask, forward it to your prospective employer that you were fired for performance and not other issues. Not the best of circumstances, but from a hiring standpoint, it's easier to hire someone that I knew was terminated for non-ethical issues.

And from the employment law situation, if you suspect, you are already too late. Management can write down "do not rehire", so resigning to avoid firing will only let you check that box, but I think it'll be worse as vagueness is worse than actual reasons (again, if not reportable).

I am rather surprised though that they are willing to do this. Usually, there's a "mutual agreement" struck.

One other thing, if you happen to be civil service, realize that a career Title 38 employee may not be fired for performance reasons (that's the current OLC stance), they are offered reassignment to a different PD and given a chance to succeed again (but with lower pay).

 

[owlegrad]

1. Never EVER resign if you fear you'll be fired.
2. Unemployment benefits are a joke. They wouldn't pay my rent.
3. I have never seen "Have you ever been fired" on a job application.

I have seen something to the effect of "reason for leaving" and I guess you would have to list termination if you were being honest.

But I still wouldn't quit on the chance I will be fired and the chance that it will make it harder to land the next job. I certainly wouldn't quit over my coworkers complaining about subjective measures.

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[CetiAlphaFive]

Because pharmacy is a small world . People see your resume and know someone one at your previous job and unofficially ask about you or worse yet I just applied for a position that I had to electronically sign that the background company could look at all previous employee records and performance issues. Not just employment date verifications. If you get caught lying you get fired, then you are know as a liar and now you are fired twice.

With that in mind, what does it matter?

People are going to know you as the person who couldn't hack it either way.

 

[rph3664]

1. Never EVER resign if you fear you'll be fired.
2. Unemployment benefits are a joke. They wouldn't pay my rent.
3. I have never seen "Have you ever been fired" on a job application.

Whatever ends up happening, Stella needs to update her resume. And I have definitely seen #3 on a job application.

Stella, what kind of place did you work at before, for how long, and why did you leave?

 

[Stella14]

1. Never EVER resign if you fear you'll be fired.
2. Unemployment benefits are a joke. They wouldn't pay my rent.
3. I have never seen "Have you ever been fired" on a job application.

Are you serious?
Some applications even ask you to check a box yes or no if you have ever been asked to leave a job. It's usually in same section as are you delinquent on child support , is/has your license been suspended , and do you have any felonies .

 

[Stella14]

With that in mind, what does it matter?

People are going to know you as the person who couldn't hack it either way.

The point is I am trying to get future employment . I think it will be much harder if I am technically fired bc I will not get past online screening process.
Please address the question bc I think it does make a difference.
The question isn't how or why or whether or not it is justified . I am in an at will state and it is going to happen .
I am trying to make the best decision while I still have the chance .

 

[Stella14]

Whatever ends up happening, Stella needs to update her resume. And I have definitely seen #3 on a job application.

Stella, what kind of place did you work at before, for how long, and why did you leave?

I worked at one of the top 10 pediatric hospitals in the country for 8 years . I wanted to branch out and get adult inpatient on my resume bc there are more adult hospitals than pediatric to work at. I was thinking long term. Soon I would be replaced with someone with a pediatric residency and for less money than I make. Soon I would not be able to get into adult hospitals bc of job market and not having a residency. I currently work at the one of the top cardiac /stroke hospitals in the country, with a major trauma center and they also have a pediatric hospital . They needed someone with Peds experience and they knew I would be behind in adult critical care so it was a win win. Adult exposure in exchange for my Peds skills.
I applied for other adult hospitals ..as well as other friends of mine... and we were being job blocked bc we were in Peds too long.
Can't go back to old hospital, they already have a resident filling my overnight spot. I worked for Walgreens for almost 20 years including tech, etc and was in the union ...so that is not an option. Enough said.
Not giving out exact ranking of hospitals in US bc then it will be obvious , but their ranking is closer to the top of the range .
My resume is completely up to date and I started applying for positions yesterday . I had an interview in January when this all started and didn't really want the job, but would have taken it bc I should not have been going through this process to begin with. Needless to say I didn't get the job and didn't apply anywhere in last 2 months bc it verbally sounded like things were ok. So here we are...
Opinion? Resign or get fired ?

 

[Stella14]

Tell them you will resign if they agree not to fight unemployment.

The point is , I work for a large hospital system. I do not think they are worrying About my unemployment amount...although I have a higher salary than most. They are only worried about getting sued. If I show up to the meeting where the paperwork is ready to terminate , I cannot quit. There have been lawyers online that day if you resign the minute before it doesn't matter and you are still coded terminated by the employer , etc etc . I would need to resign before the meeting occurs. Thoughts?

 

[BMBiology]

The point is , I work for a large hospital system. I do not think they are worrying About my unemployment amount...although I have a higher salary than most. They are only worried about getting sued. If I show up to the meeting where the paperwork is ready to terminate , I cannot quit. There have been lawyers online that day if you resign the minute before it doesn't matter and you are still coded terminated by the employer , etc etc . I would need to resign before the meeting occurs. Thoughts?

If you think this would protect your future job prospects and you don't care about the unemployment benefits, then go ahead and resign. If anything it will give you a peace of mind.


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[jblil]

OP - I am not sure why you keep asking the same question over and over. People have given you the pros and cons of each option. We do not know the minute details of your situation, so we can't make a decision for you.

 

[KARM12]

This is a tough situation and I do not know the best answer to give you. Usually performance improvement plans have several levels/steps before termination. If you have honestly worked towards improvement in the areas listed and can show that, I am not sure how they can fire you. Are you that far into the plan that the next step is termination?

 

[gwarm01]

Are they really going to terminate you for such subjective peer reviews? That seems ridiculous to me. When I have given feedback on new pharmacists with actual, serious performance issues I was met with an attitude of we need to support them and give them the support to improve. The hassle of finding and training a new employee and opening yourself up to legal issues means we wouldn't fire someone unless they were stealing or had a history of causing patient harm.

Do they have any objective data on your performance? Are you verifying far fewer orders, not making as many clinical interventions, or having errors reported? Something that actually shows you aren't performing to a satisfactory level? The whole phone answering thing just sounds like he-said, she-said..

 

[Chem Blade]

Resigning is better than being fired I believe

 

[Stella14]

OP - I am not sure why you keep asking the same question over and over. People have given you the pros and cons of each option. We do not know the minute details of your situation, so we can't make a decision for you.

I have seen something to the effect of "reason for leaving" and I guess you would have to list termination if you were being honest.

But I still wouldn't quit on the chance I will be fired and the chance that it will make it harder to land the next job. I certainly wouldn't quit over my coworkers complaining about subjective measures.

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This is a tough situation and I do not know the best answer to give you. Usually performance improvement plans have several levels/steps before termination. If you have honestly worked towards improvement in the areas listed and can show that, I am not sure how they can fire you. Are you that far into the plan that the next step is termination?

 

[Stella14]

Yes, there is one week left to improve on mostly immeasurable things . Other peoples perceptions . The two times we met I went into the meeting feeling good and then they would say you improved with the phone for example , but it was not consistent enough. So I failed overall . Really truly it is the most bizarre review(s) I have ever had. I figured I'd be getting fired over clinical issues while trying to catch up on my adult critical care skills and it's the phone? And I don't act vulnerable enough. Really ? I cried my freaking eyes out during my reviews bc I was shocked and frustrated . I was criticized for asking the same question twice , saying I prefer Epic over Cerner...so peers interpreted that as I thought I was better than them? And one pharmacist was insulted bc I asked the same question to a coworker next to her to foster a group discussion, but was told I am not being collaborative enough. It's messed up. Like I said , I would have eventually left bc of this scenario and I know I did my best. I was told this is the last review and that I would be fired this time if things did not change. If I couldn't change things from January until now... one week is not going to matter.
I am actually working OT from home my entire 7 days off. I go back on Wednesday for a week (evaluated on) and working a few days OT on my next 7 off. I am going to speak to a few lawyers tomorrow who will probably say quit if you can afford it.
My plan is to go into work before my work week officially starts , as for a meeting on the spot with my resignation ready... tell her I don't want to quit , but professionally I can't afford to get fired. If she says you're not going to get fired than I won't quit . If she stays quite bc the official meeting would be in 2 days from then... then I will resign.
It is going to be hard enough trying to score interviews after my official end date bc it will be apparent I quit without another job and that might also put up red flags, but not as many as checking that fired box on the application. If anyone else has any helpful insights that would be great. This is my plan for now.

 

[owlegrad]

Please keep us informed of what happens. Good luck!

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[Stella14]

Please keep us informed of what happens. Good luck!

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Thank You! I will...

 

[sosoo]

also does your workplace have a union? i'm with cvs and so i wasn't sure hospital pharmacists have a union. if its available and you can join the union, they cannot fire you for ridiculous things like this. always bring a union rep to the review or any meeting if that meeting will affect your employment. know your rights.

 

[Stella14]

also does your workplace have a union? i'm with cvs and so i wasn't sure hospital pharmacists have a union. if its available and you can join the union, they cannot fire you for ridiculous things like this. always bring a union rep to the review or any meeting if that meeting will affect your employment. know your rights.

No union.
I was in one for years when I worked for Walgreens. So I know how helpful they can be.

 

[M0df]

I agree with your approach. If you are reading this situation correctly, more sensible option is to resign. Do you think your 75% chance is more closer to 90%+ <4-8 weeks?

 

[Stella14]

I agree with your approach. If you are reading this situation correctly, more sensible option is to resign. Do you think your 75% chance is more closer to 90%+ <4-8 weeks?

I am not really sure how posting works on here. I think I may have 2 different threads going. Anyway , I hired a lawyer and will keep you posted , so you will know what you can tried if you or your friends are ever in a similar situation . If it works, it will solve all my problems ...

 

[KARM12]

Most lawyers won't take these cases because they are really hard to win unless you have a disability or are of some other protected class. Most states are "at will" employment. They can fire you if they can show you violated a policy/procedures/etc and have followed the hospital's HR policies for performance improvement plans. It probably isn't worth the time and effort to pursue legal action unless it is a violation of the ADA or some other law like that.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Yes, there is one week left to improve on mostly immeasurable things . Other peoples perceptions . The two times we met I went into the meeting feeling good and then they would say you improved with the phone for example , but it was not consistent enough. So I failed overall . Really truly it is the most bizarre review(s) I have ever had. I figured I'd be getting fired over clinical issues while trying to catch up on my adult critical care skills and it's the phone? And I don't act vulnerable enough. Really ? I cried my freaking eyes out during my reviews bc I was shocked and frustrated . I was criticized for asking the same question twice , saying I prefer Epic over Cerner...so peers interpreted that as I thought I was better than them? And one pharmacist was insulted bc I asked the same question to a coworker next to her to foster a group discussion, but was told I am not being collaborative enough. It's messed up. Like I said , I would have eventually left bc of this scenario and I know I did my best. I was told this is the last review and that I would be fired this time if things did not change. If I couldn't change things from January until now... one week is not going to matter.

...this is the side of hospital pharmacy people don't consider when they turn their nose up at retail. I got into 5 times as much passive-aggressive, backstabbing drama in 18 months at a hospital pharmacy than I have in 6 years working retail. Those people are effing weird.

 

[wickedone]

I am surprised how many people are saying to go ahead and resign. You absolutely should not resign. You don't even know for sure if they will fire you, and if they do you should collect unemployment while you search for a new job. What advantage do you think quitting will bring you? I highly doubt quitting will make it easier to find a new job.

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this poster gets it!

 

[Stella14]

Most lawyers won't take these cases because they are really hard to win unless you have a disability or are of some other protected class. Most states are "at will" employment. They can fire you if they can show you violated a policy/procedures/etc and have followed the hospital's HR policies for performance improvement plans. It probably isn't worth the time and effort to pursue legal action unless it is a violation of the ADA or some other law like that.

It is a different strategy. Will keep you posted. In the meantime , they approved an additional 2 days of OT on top of the 3 I already had scheduled before my last meeting. Don't know if their lawyer has contacted hr or what . Not sure if my managers know I hired a lawyer .

 

[KARM12]

Threatening a lawsuit is not going to make them not fire you. It is going to get them to make sure they "dot all the i's" to make sure they fire you and accordingly to policy. If you are a HR problem, they are going to try to get rid of you. HR's job is not to protect the employee's rights it is to protect the company. If they do everything correctly, then it gives them more fuel to fire you.

Clearly this company does not want you to work for them. I would have started looking for a new job months ago and then leave as soon as I found one.

 

[Stella14]

Threatening a lawsuit is not going to make them not fire you. It is going to get them to make sure they "dot all the i's" to make sure they fire you and accordingly to policy. If you are a HR problem, they are going to try to get rid of you. HR's job is not to protect the employee's rights it is to protect the company. If they do everything correctly, then it gives them more fuel to fire you.

Clearly this company does not want you to work for them. I would have started looking for a new job months ago and then leave as soon as I found one.

I did interview in January and did not get the position. I was told that they wanted to keep me and were coaching me....!?! To answer the phone more or faster and other bs. They told me not to be upset and that it would not ruin my career and that there was currently someone in management who completed the plan, so I should not feel bad. So... I thought it was something doable.
Obviously , I know I will for sure get fired, but I was 75-85% sure before. I am using the lawyer as leverage to get the best exit strategy possible . I just completed a video interview for a full time job And I have another interview Thursday for a prn hospital position . We'll see. Oh and I just got approved for an extra 2 days of OT at current job that are scheduled before my official meeting .