Respect in the field?

[MedicinePowder]

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i know the topic has been touched on before and a point thrown out was that u're respected for skills and work u produce.

i didn't witness any direct negative interaction with surgeons or surgery residents as my anesthesiology rotations were all pretty smooth. But just recently on another rotation (medicine consultation service) i've had direct interaction with a couple surgery residents and i had to resist cocking my arm back and knocking some teeth out. i'm sure private practice is different as the better the team gets together, the faster people finish and the happier people are, but how different is that in a teaching hospital? I have a short fuse for arrogance and condescending grandiose attitudes. anyone share residency experiences one way or the other? for example, is it just an isolated experience that some cocky-ass surgery resident snatches the chart in front of you as u're reviewing it and walks off with it?

 

[toughlife]

i know the topic has been touched on before and a point thrown out was that u're respected for skills and work u produce.

i didn't witness any direct negative interaction with surgeons or surgery residents as my anesthesiology rotations were all pretty smooth. But just recently on another rotation (medicine consultation service) i've had direct interaction with a couple surgery residents and i had to resist cocking my arm back and knocking some teeth out. i'm sure private practice is different as the better the team gets together, the faster people finish and the happier people are, but how different is that in a teaching hospital? I have a short fuse for arrogance and condescending grandiose attitudes. anyone share residency experiences one way or the other? for example, is it just an isolated experience that some cocky-ass surgery resident snatches the chart in front of you as u're reviewing it and walks off with it?

were you looking thru the chart?

 

[MedicinePowder]

were you looking thru the chart?

yes. he didn't completely saying anything--he was like: 'need that', then just walked away with it. it wasn't as if the patient was going to surgery either. he assumed because he was fromt he surgery department he could just do that.

 

[toughlife]

yes. he didn't completely saying anything--he was like: 'need that', then just walked away with it. it wasn't as if the patient was going to surgery either.

my kinda guy. I would have said something like "what the ****?!"

I must say this disrespect issue is somewhat problematic for me. I usually keep to myself until someone opens their mouth with some snide remark or rude action directed at me. I find it hard to be nice when people are rude. Not sure why, but I feel that I can't just sit there and take it.

 

[nitecap]

Have witnessed Private practice CT surgeons totally disrespect both academic and private practice intensivists and anesthesiologist. They handled it pretty well. Assertive enough not to get punked out yet reasonalbly trying to smooth things over being that these 2 particular surgeons bring in about half the volume to both the OR and CVICU.

Get this. About 10 years ago an older surgeon(60 at this time) shoved a female anesthesilogist which was very high up on the totem pole. The woman fell and sued and won 2 million. She then donated 1 million of it to the academic institution which she was faculty. 1 month later she was fired. So say her suit caused to much tension being the surgeon was faculty as well and in the good ole boys club which she was not.

 

[toughlife]

Have witnessed Private practice CT surgeons totally disrespect both academic and private practice intensivists and anesthesiologist. They handled it pretty well. Assertive enough not to get punked out yet reasonalbly trying to smooth things over being that these 2 particular surgeons bring in about half the volume to both the OR and CVICU.

Get this. The woman fell and sued and won 2 million. She then donated 1 million of it to the academic institution which she was faculty. 😱 1 month later she was fired. So say her suit caused to much tension being the surgeon was faculty as well and in the good ole boys club which she was not.

I would have asked for my million back. Put them in the bank and live off the interest in Costa Rica drinking coronas.

 

[ThinkFast007]

to OP

dude....unfortunately...i have a feeling since theyre surg residents and you are a MED student...$ hit like that is going to happen. HOPEFULLY, next year, w/ that longer white coat we'll get a little more respect.

BUT WOW...is all i have to say...i'm kinda short fused too, dont know how I would handle someone snatching a chart of my hand. I think being asssertive is teh best route to take. I wouldnt go and yell at them and cause a scene (unless it was a recurring theme).

dos centabos

 

[Misterioso]

i know the topic has been touched on before and a point thrown out was that u're respected for skills and work u produce.

i didn't witness any direct negative interaction with surgeons or surgery residents as my anesthesiology rotations were all pretty smooth. But just recently on another rotation (medicine consultation service) i've had direct interaction with a couple surgery residents and i had to resist cocking my arm back and knocking some teeth out. i'm sure private practice is different as the better the team gets together, the faster people finish and the happier people are, but how different is that in a teaching hospital? I have a short fuse for arrogance and condescending grandiose attitudes. anyone share residency experiences one way or the other? for example, is it just an isolated experience that some cocky-ass surgery resident snatches the chart in front of you as u're reviewing it and walks off with it?

Your story is not unusual. Surgeons for the most part are extremely confident people who go after what they want and get it done. So it's not unusual for non-surgeons to think of them as rude or cocky.

 

[Monty Python]

...........I have a short fuse for arrogance and condescending grandiose attitudes. anyone share residency experiences one way or the other? for example, is it just an isolated experience that some cocky-ass surgery resident snatches the chart in front of you as u're reviewing it and walks off with it?

Unfortunately, medicine has more similar incidents on a daily basis, compared to just about any other profession. Blame it on the long hours, the high responsibility load and corresponding stress factor, unreasonable patient demands and expectations, etc etc. Add in the ego factor present in some medical folk's persona, and you get the above interaction which you experienced.

Apply the "Ann Landers" test: ask yourself, will this particular situation still be affecting you 10 years from now in a significant financial, emotional, spiritual, or relationship manner. If yes, then get steamed up and do something about it. If no, then try your best to let it roll off your back because in the long run it really doesn't amount to anything.

In the long run you'll expend less mental currency over the incident, your cortisol level won't spike, and your composure and self-control will impress others around you. It will also make you look ten feet tall in your co-worker's eyes, and will make the instigator look like the midget-brain a$$hole he/she really is.

 

[threepeas]

Your story is not unusual. Surgeons for the most part are extremely confident people who go after what they want and get it done. So it's not unusual for non-surgeons to think of them as rude or cocky.

let me translate this comment.

"surgeons are confident" (that sounds like a good trait)
"surgeons go after what they want and get it done" (sounds like good ol assertiveness, not a bad thing)
non-surgeons think them rude or cocky (ahhhhh...i see....its the non-surgeons problem. their erroneously interpreting these wonderful traits as negative traits.) how silly of them.

classic defense argument of a self-righteous, egostistical, monkey man.
i am going to guess everytime you open your mouth hereafter, you are going to sound more and more like an a-hole because you wont be able to help yourself. just a wild guess though.

 

[marcus_aurelius]

i'd tell the resident (if u are a resident) "you better check yourself before ya wreck yourself"

i'd be tempted to be a rude a-hole to anyone who acted that way to me....but then again, what gets done if the entire surgical team is fighting with each other.

i've met a lot of really humble surgeons in my life who are really modest despite being some of the best in the world....perhaps that's one of the reasons they're the best, they work well with the other members of their TEAM and respect everyone.

i remember one operation i had and my surgeon was the nicest guy...humble, qiuet spoken yet extremely meticulous in his work and took a lot of time to make sure i knew exactly what was going on.

the one's that are rude are usually pissed off at their personal lives. either way, i think they need to correct these problems in their field in order to improve the way the treat patients...its one thing to be assertive (esp in a high intensity surgery) and quite an other to be a narcissistic a hole....the second one gets less output from other members of the team and frankly puts the patients life in danger....an unfit physician.....i think that there are enough good surgeons out there for hospital administration to expect this in their surgeons and dont understand why they arent being called out for it.

 

[Laryngospasm]

Your story is not unusual. Surgeons for the most part are extremely confident people who go after what they want and get it done. So it's not unusual for non-surgeons to think of them as rude or cocky.

Are you serious? Did your mom not breast feed you? What's your major malfunction?

 

[VolatileAgent]

for example, is it just an isolated experience that some cocky-ass surgery resident snatches the chart in front of you as u're reviewing it and walks off with it?

yes.

here's what you shoulda done... (i'm in an advice-givin' "shoulda, coulda, woulda" mood tonight):

i would have waited until the guy walked to wherever he was walking to, got settled down with the chart, and waited until he was about mid-penstroke in his soap note (or whatever he needed the chart for), then i would have snatched it out of his hands, looked him square in the eyes, grinned from ear-to-ear while flashing a you're-just-about-ready-to-get-punched-in-the-jaw gleam in your eyes, and said "next time, ask." then i would've walked away from him.

unfortunately, that's the only way you get respect from a neanderthal. (and, no, most surgeons are not neanderthals.)

 

[jetproppilot]

yes.

here's what you shoulda done... (i'm in an advice-givin' "shoulda, coulda, woulda" mood tonight):

i would have waited until the guy walked to wherever he was walking to, got settled down with the chart, and waited until he was about mid-penstroke in his soap note (or whatever he needed the chart for), then i would have snatched it out of his hands, looked him square in the eyes, grinned from ear-to-ear while flashing a you're-just-about-ready-to-get-punched-in-the-jaw gleam in your eyes, and said "next time, ask." then i would've walked away from him.

unfortunately, that's the only way you get respect from a neanderthal. (and, no, most surgeons are not neanderthals.)

Yep. Gotta agree.

Sometimes you've gotta Step Up To The Mike With Micatin.

 

[Misterioso]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[marcus_aurelius]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

if you walk away from these people, they will treat you like a p**** b**** for your entire life (or until you switch hospitals where you'd meet another one. i say a face to face encounter is needed and a body check if necessary (but not during surgery). kind of why the dont fight rule doesnt work in school, bc if u dont fight the bully, u'll probably get your ass kicked everyday. i knew this kid in one of my classes in middle school who almost got his head twisted right off his neck bc he was too timid. then the same guys picked on another kid and he started punching them so many times and biting and scratching that nobody touched him afterwards....it was as if he had been possessed by the devil.

we're adults though, so i'd keep the biting and scratching to a minimum, unless you are in bed with a hottie with some crazy fantasies...in that case i'd just get a tetanus shot.

 

[VentdependenT]

If youre looking for respect you are too late. Medicine in general will fall quite short in almost all arenas. Especially when some alcoholic wife beating ventdependent septic life long malconditioned sociopath's long lost fat-ass hillbilly sister is screaming at you post call at 330 pm about how bad you suck and that her family member should be treated in such and such manner by so and so. Oh yeah, she demands full court press. Screw medical futility she wants the works.

Also you'll find out that every other hospital employee out ranks a resident any day of the week. Speak in any unremotely unprofessional manner, no matter what situation, and see what happens. You and your PD will be having a little chat about your terse behaviour. Patient safety won't be the issue. You will. Expand this concept to the whole bureaucratic politically correct JHACO system and now your talken misery.


Good docs are getting screwed left and right.

Bottom Line. I love my job as a budding anesthesiologist. Keep my ass out of the spotlight, someone else can have it. Until then, I'll chart preemptively, provide empathy, and excell in as a clinician because I care. But at the end of the day this job lets me leave most of it behind and go romp around with my woman, family, toys, and homies. It rocks my friend.

Vent

 

[Misterioso]

If youre looking for respect you are too late. Medicine in general will fall quite short in almost all arenas. Especially when some alcoholic wife beating ventdependent septic life long malconditioned sociopath's long lost fat-ass hillbilly sister is screaming at you post call at 330 pm about how bad you suck and that her family member should be treated in such and such manner by so and so. Oh yeah, she demands full court press. Screw medical futility she wants the works.

Also you'll find out that every other hospital employee out ranks a resident any day of the week. Speak in any unremotely unprofessional manner, no matter what situation, and see what happens. You and your PD will be having a little chat about your terse behaviour. Patient safety won't be the issue. You will. Expand this concept to the whole bureaucratic politically correct JACHO system and now your talken misery.


Good docs are getting screwed left and right.

Bottom Line. I love my job as a budding anesthesiologist. Keep my ass out of the spotlight, someone else can have it. Until then, I'll chart preemptively, provide empathy, and excell in as a clinician because I care. But at the end of the day this job lets me leave most of it behind and go romp around with my woman, family, toys, and homies. It rocks my friend.

Vent

Good points Vent. A relative who was a doctor during the golden age of medicine was telling me about how great it used to be for doctors back then. Nurses actually stood up and offered you their chair when you walked into a room, you could tell a nurse or orderly to fetch you a cup of coffee and they'd do it instead of complaining to HR, patients listened to you instead of questioning your judgement with random stuff they read on the internet, doctors had their own designated section in the cafeteria away from others, etc. Doctors were held to a much greater esteem, unlike now where you're basically just another salaried employee of a corporate-run medical center.

 

[militarymd]

Good points Vent. A relative who was a doctor during the golden age of medicine was telling me about how great it used to be for doctors back then. Nurses actually stood up and offered you their chair when you walked into a room, you could tell a nurse or orderly to fetch you a cup of coffee and they'd do it instead of complaining to HR, patients listened to you instead of questioning your judgement with random stuff they read on the internet, doctors had their own designated section in the cafeteria away from others, etc. Doctors were held to a much greater esteem, unlike now where you're basically just another salaried employee of a corporate-run medical center.

it is stil like that in the south.

 

[VentdependenT]

it is stil like that in the south.

hook it up

 

[jwk]

Good points Vent. A relative who was a doctor during the golden age of medicine was telling me about how great it used to be for doctors back then. Nurses actually stood up and offered you their chair when you walked into a room, you could tell a nurse or orderly to fetch you a cup of coffee and they'd do it instead of complaining to HR, patients listened to you instead of questioning your judgement with random stuff they read on the internet, doctors had their own designated section in the cafeteria away from others, etc. Doctors were held to a much greater esteem, unlike now where you're basically just another salaried employee of a corporate-run medical center.

Your story is not unusual. Surgeons for the most part are extremely confident people who go after what they want and get it done. So it's not unusual for non-surgeons to think of them as rude or cocky.

Ah, I see - you still think doctor's should be gods. Do you even begin to understand the arrogance of that post?

Nurses haven't stood up and offered doctors their seats in 20 years, nor should they have ever needed to. Most of them were then, and are now, far too busy taking care of patients to get YOU a cup of coffee just because you think you're more important than they are. And they complain to HR when they are verbally and sometimes physically abused - yet another thing that comes from having a hugely inflated sense of self worth.

Rude is rude - it doesn't matter if you're a surgeon, and having MD behind your name certainly doesn't excuse it.

VENT makes excellent points as always - you fall a little short.

 

[Misterioso]

Ah, I see - you still think doctor's should be gods. Do you even begin to understand the arrogance of that post?

Nurses haven't stood up and offered doctors their seats in 20 years, nor should they have ever needed to. Most of them were then, and are now, far too busy taking care of patients to get YOU a cup of coffee just because you think you're more important than they are. And they complain to HR when they are verbally and sometimes physically abused - yet another thing that comes from having a hugely inflated sense of self worth.

Rude is rude - it doesn't matter if you're a surgeon, and having MD behind your name certainly doesn't excuse it.

jwk,

That is the exact kind of attitude which has lowered medicine to where it is now and which will continue to make it deteriorate. Everybody's "the same" in this politically correct atmosphere. Doctors with years of training and skills are in the same league as the janitors and they have to get permission from barely high school educated people at an HMO before they can do what they know is right for the patient. It hurts people's precious little egos if a doctor asserts himself or isn't super nice to every person at the hospital. Just report him to HR because you don't like the way he carries himself and his arrogant ways.

Sorry I don't buy it. Doctors are (or should I say were) at the top of the medical hiearchey, and that's where they should be. Tough if nurses and other allied staff don't like it. If it bothers them so much then let them get into med school, get an MD and complete a residency. Few of them would be able to hack it and they know it.

The golden age of medicine was fantastic. Doctors were treated like they deserved to be for all the hard work and sacrifice they put in. Now they're just another hospital employee.

 

[toughlife]

When oh when will doctors form a union and strike for a week. That would set the record straight in no time.

 

[jwk]

jwk,

That is the exact kind of attitude which has lowered medicine to where it is now and which will continue to make it deteriorate. Everybody's "the same" in this politically correct atmosphere. Doctors with years of training and skills are in the same league as the janitors and they have to get permission from barely high school educated people at an HMO before they can do what they know is right for the patient. It hurts people's precious little egos if a doctor asserts himself or isn't super nice to every person at the hospital. Just report him to HR because you don't like the way he carries himself and his arrogant ways.

Sorry I don't buy it. Doctors are (or should I say were) at the top of the medical hiearchey, and that's where they should be. Tough if nurses and other allied staff don't like it. If it bothers them so much then let them get into med school, get an MD and complete a residency. Few of them would be able to hack it and they know it.

The golden age of medicine was fantastic. Doctors were treated like they deserved to be for all the hard work and sacrifice they put in. Now they're just another hospital employee.

My point went right over your head, didn't it?

I'm not arguing about clinical skills and education - no argument from me - MD's have it. No argument about HMO's and insurance companies either. They universally suck and exist for their stockholders' and officers' benefit, not the patient's they presumably are supposed to serve.

I'm talking about simple respect. You somehow have the idea that you are OWED something simply because of who you are, or who you think you are. That's what I don't buy.

"hey nurse, get outta my seat - I'm a doctor" or "hey boy, get me a cup of coffee - I'm a doctor" will get you nowhere quick. Nor will calling a fellow physician an SOB or a nurse a f***ing c**ks***er. That particular physician underwent mandatory anger management and counseling as a condition of their continuing PRIVILEGE of remaining a member of the medical staff.

 

[Monty Python]

..............I'm talking about simple respect. You somehow have the idea that you are OWED something simply because of who you are, or who you think you are......

A similar corollary exists in the military. At officer candidate school, the theory is pounded into candidates' heads that authority and responsibility come with the rank/position .... respect has to be earned.

 

[nitecap]

My point went right over your head, didn't it?

I'm not arguing about clinical skills and education - no argument from me - MD's have it. No argument about HMO's and insurance companies either. They universally suck and exist for their stockholders' and officers' benefit, not the patient's they presumably are supposed to serve.

I'm talking about simple respect. You somehow have the idea that you are OWED something simply because of who you are, or who you think you are. That's what I don't buy.

"hey nurse, get outta my seat - I'm a doctor" or "hey boy, get me a cup of coffee - I'm a doctor" will get you nowhere quick. Nor will calling a fellow physician an SOB or a nurse a f***ing c**ks***er. That particular physician underwent mandatory anger management and counseling as a condition of their continuing PRIVILEGE of remaining a member of the medical staff.

Yeah the docs that respected me as a nurse got totally equal respect back. Hey if I totally dont need the chair and just chillen I dont mind giving it to the MD at all. Its common courtesy same as if I would give a woman or elder a seat on the train or bus. But then those that show little respect, come in with cockyness right off the bat heck no they wont get a the chair. As far as the coffee really I have never witnessed a nurse get coffee for a MD b/c he "told" them so. Unless you have a nurse working for you in your office if you have one. Usually it is the MD that says go get a cup of coffee at starbucks and buy a box so everyone can have a cup. This MD no matter what service or experience they have will get all the respect in the world.

Of course the MD's training, knowledge base and professional level may be above the nurse. But common courtesy and being at least polite to others no matter if they are a janitor or not goes along way and its something that does not come with experience, training of a million years of education.

Look its really easy if you want to be well respected by nurses, support staff, nurse managers, lower level administration really it may sound childest but the old golden rule just keeps coiming back.

You can be known as a great MD, a Great person, a pleasure to work with, a pleasure to care for your pt's b/c you are respectful and all nurses , secretaries, managers, and janitors like you and would send their family to you for care.

Or you can be known as a great MD, a jerk that scared nurses avoid and a disrespectful MD that nurses that dont give a damn mess with. People dread getting your pts from OR, they dread getting report from you, anything you say of do that offends them they write incident reports that goes to administration, they start rumors that spread and you are all of a sudden not known for how good you are at what you are do, rather you are known for exactly how you treat people.

 

[hoop_jumper]

Yep, the golden age; then someone went and freed the slaves, gave women the right to vote, allowed RN's to give anesthesia, passed civil rights, allowed everyone to ride in the front of the bus. Damn this country is going to hell in a hand basket wish I were in the good old days.

Good points Vent. A relative who was a doctor during the golden age of medicine was telling me about how great it used to be for doctors back then. Nurses actually stood up and offered you their chair when you walked into a room, you could tell a nurse or orderly to fetch you a cup of coffee and they'd do it instead of complaining to HR, patients listened to you instead of questioning your judgement with random stuff they read on the internet, doctors had their own designated section in the cafeteria away from others, etc. Doctors were held to a much greater esteem, unlike now where you're basically just another salaried employee of a corporate-run medical center.

 

[nitecap]

Yep, the golden age; then someone went and freed the slaves, gave women the right to vote, allowed RN's to give anesthesia, passed civil rights, allowed everyone to ride in the front of the bus. Damn this country is going to hell in a hand basket wish I were in the good old days.

I'll take that as a joke.

 

[jetproppilot]

My point went right over your head, didn't it?

I'm not arguing about clinical skills and education - no argument from me - MD's have it. No argument about HMO's and insurance companies either. They universally suck and exist for their stockholders' and officers' benefit, not the patient's they presumably are supposed to serve.

I'm talking about simple respect. You somehow have the idea that you are OWED something simply because of who you are, or who you think you are. That's what I don't buy.

"hey nurse, get outta my seat - I'm a doctor" or "hey boy, get me a cup of coffee - I'm a doctor" will get you nowhere quick. Nor will calling a fellow physician an SOB or a nurse a f***ing c**ks***er. That particular physician underwent mandatory anger management and counseling as a condition of their continuing PRIVILEGE of remaining a member of the medical staff.

JWK,

welcome back, Sir.

Good to see you.

 

[Noyac]

Try this for a period of time.
Be a arrogant As$hole for a month and see how hard your life becomes. Nobody lifts a hand to help you. The totally unnecessary pages increase (RN from the floor calls at 2 am to tell you that your ESRD pt's K+ is low after dialysis). Your work environment now becomes hostile and lonely.

Now be a reasonable unassuming humanbeing for a month. Then tell me which month was better.

JWK and (surprisingly) Nitecap are not Dr. bashing. THey are actually doing any of you with a higher than the Almighty attitude a favor. Try to pay attention.

And if you respect everyone around you, the good'ol days will be among you.

 

[dogbone65]

Try this for a period of time.
Be a arrogant As$hole for a month and see how hard your life becomes. Nobody lifts a hand to help you. The totally unnecessary pages increase (RN from the floor calls at 2 am to tell you that your ESRD pt's K+ is low after dialysis). Your work environment now becomes hostile and lonely.

Now be a reasonable unassuming humanbeing for a month. Then tell me which month was better.

JWK and (surprisingly) Nitecap are not Dr. bashing. THey are actually doing any of you with a higher than the Almighty attitude a favor. Try to pay attention.

And if you respect everyone around you, the good'ol days will be among you.

And the truth shall set you free! Succinct and well said.

 

[Danger Man]

If youre looking for respect you are too late. Medicine in general will fall quite short in almost all arenas. Especially when some alcoholic wife beating ventdependent septic life long malconditioned sociopath's long lost fat-ass hillbilly sister is screaming at you post call at 330 pm about how bad you suck and that her family member should be treated in such and such manner by so and so. Oh yeah, she demands full court press. Screw medical futility she wants the works.

Also you'll find out that every other hospital employee out ranks a resident any day of the week. Speak in any unremotely unprofessional manner, no matter what situation, and see what happens. You and your PD will be having a little chat about your terse behaviour. Patient safety won't be the issue. You will. Expand this concept to the whole bureaucratic politically correct JHACO system and now your talken misery.


Good docs are getting screwed left and right.

Bottom Line. I love my job as a budding anesthesiologist. Keep my ass out of the spotlight, someone else can have it. Until then, I'll chart preemptively, provide empathy, and excell in as a clinician because I care. But at the end of the day this job lets me leave most of it behind and go romp around with my woman, family, toys, and homies. It rocks my friend.

Vent

Amen, brother---wise words. Sometimes you just have to suck it up. Being an a-hole yourself will not compensate for someone else's lack of class--you will wind up with the **** on your face. Using the excuse, "Well, he started it." will not be sufficient when you get called to the prinicipal's office. Just as in football, the guy who retaliates is the one who will get flagged.

 

[Tenesma]

i don't know what the last few posts are all about...

Anyway, regarding the original posting. Nobody shows up deserving respect, you earn it. However there are certain things that are just plain common courtesy. You need to react with your gut instinct and bark back at them without using profanity. People without class/courtesy usually respect or at least respond to loud barking. If they don't come back apologetic or with a good excuse, I would then go talk to their superior regarding their attitude issues. If they still don't get it, you can always revert to passive aggressive behavior until they get a clue.

 

[Misterioso]

Amen, brother---wise words. Sometimes you just have to suck it up. Being an a-hole yourself will not compensate for someone else's lack of class--you will wind up with the **** on your face. Using the excuse, "Well, he started it." will not be sufficient when you get called to the prinicipal's office. Just as in football, the guy who retaliates is the one who will get flagged.

Not always true. If you're an arrogant a-hole from the start then you let people know where you stand and where they stand with you from the very start. There's a few surgery attendings I know who have reputations for being supreme a-holes and nobody seems to give them any trouble. Med students get nervous when they're around, residents do their best not to do anything to piss them off, nurses stay out of their way unless it's something essential, etc.

 

[Danger Man]

Not always true. If you're an arrogant a-hole from the start then you let people know where you stand and where they stand with you from the very start. There's a few surgery attendings I know who have reputations for being supreme a-holes and nobody seems to give them any trouble. Med students get nervous when they're around, residents do their best not to do anything to piss them off, nurses stay out of their way unless it's something essential, etc.

I am speaking your language...These attendings are badass mo fo's ("where they stand") and they have to continually carry this chip on their shoulder because they are the almighty doctor!! Man, that act is tired.

These attendings sound like real winners. Perhaps the reason that no one gives them any trouble is because these surgeons might take their ball and go home crying to their mommies! Oh, that's right, I am sure that they are great surgeons because they are arrogant and it is this arrogance that will propel them to greatness and medical immortality. I get it, I have heard that somewhere. You need to understand that the greatest surgeons, athletes, painters, etc. don't need to tell people how great they are...people can see it for themselves!!! Michael Jordan spent most of his NBA career telling everyone how awesome he was and Dr. Ben Carson at Hopkins carries a sign around with him that says "World-class neurosurgeon--step aside!"

Dude, let me break it down, some of these attendings of whom you speak think that they are hot **** on a silver platter, but they are barely cold diarrhea on a paper plate. The saddest thing is that you admire them for this trait. As for you, I think that you should take Jet's advice to heart. My friend, you are clueless AND arrogant--that combination blows some serious ass. 🙁

 

[Tenesma]

misterioso

you poor, sad, pathetic medical student.... You are the prototypical student who is in awe of his supervising residents/attendings. The louder they yell the more excited you are that you are on their "team". Kind of reminds me of the little weasel in junior high school who became friends with the bullies just to protect his own ass.

like i said in many previous postings - all of you residents and medical students are so wrapped up in the bubble of academics that you have NO clue of what the real world is all about. I remember when I was a resident the surgical residents were in awe of the cardiac surgeons - only until the graduated and joined the real world - to find out that the academic surgeons spent 4 hours on pump compared to 1 hour like the private surgeons.... You can yell all you want, but there is a reason why most academic surgeons stay academic. Most of them couldn't hack it in the real world (1) attitude issues 2) skills 3) poor outcomes, etc...). They could never survive in the real world...

 

[Misterioso]

You need to understand that the greatest surgeons, athletes, painters, etc. don't need to tell people how great they are...people can see it for themselves!!! Michael Jordan spent most of his NBA career telling everyone how awesome he was and Dr. Ben Carson at Hopkins carries a sign around with him that says "World-class neurosurgeon--step aside!"

Actually, Carson wrote an autobiography self-titled "Gifted Hands" or something like that.

Listen, I know too much confidence (or "arrogance" as some call it) gets to people like you for whatever reason. Maybe it's because you don't have enough confidence yourself and wish you had the stones like men who do have it.

As far as those surgeons, you don't have to worry about them, they're doing just fine, arrogance and all. One of them is renowned in his specialty, lives in a $5 million dollar beachfront house and seems to have a new trophy girlfriend every other month.

Nice guys finish last. There's a reason that saying has been around for ever.

 

[Danger Man]

Actually, Carson wrote an autobiography self-titled "Gifted Hands" or something like that.

Yeah, I own a copy of that book and, by your response, you have never read it. Take my advice, read it (or have it read to you). Dr. Carson realized years ago that the gift he has should be used to help others rather than to promote himself.

Listen, I know too much confidence (or "arrogance" as some call it) gets to people like you for whatever reason. Maybe it's because you don't have enough confidence yourself and wish you had the stones like men who do have it.

Whatever, dude. I am confident in my ability and have handled more than a few stressful situations during residency. I am humble enough to realize that the world of medicine does not revolve around me and that, when I leave this earth, medicine will continue and that I want to be known for more than the intials that follow my name.

As far as those surgeons, you don't have to worry about them, they're doing just fine, arrogance and all. One of them is renowned in his specialty, lives in a $5 million dollar beachfront house and seems to have a new trophy girlfriend every other month.

You have an interesting, albeit, superficial definition of success. Getting laid is no more difficult than hitting on the requisite number of women.

Nice guys finish last. There's a reason that saying has been around for ever.

Ah, that famous misquote. My friend I know a thing or two about baseball. Leo "The Lip" Durocher, manager of the New York Giants, never actually uttered those words. When asked about a team's prospects for the upcoming season, Durocher replied, "Oh, they are nice guys......they'll finish last." The two thoughts are NOT connected. Let me put it in terms perhaps even you can understand....If someone asked an attending about the future of one of his junior med students maybe even an aspiring surgeon, the attending might reply, "Oh, the med student.....he is an a-hole." You would say, "Med students are a-holes!!!!" Oh, I am sorry, perhaps not the best example given present company.

Speaking of baseball, you might want to read a few things about Lou Gehrig. He was the greatest first baseman of all-time and one of the top 10 players to ever lace 'em up. He was HUMBLE and GREAT. Or you might say, he was great even though he was humble. Man, I feel for you. I take that back just continue to fill your head with grandiose delusions--you seem beyond hope, I hope the world bows before you, I really do.

 

[Misterioso]

Ah, that famous misquote.

Who cares if it's a misquote or not. It's still a valid saying. You see it in action every day in real life.

Speaking of baseball, you might want to read a few things about Lou Gehrig. He was the greatest first baseman of all-time and one of the top 10 players to ever lace 'em up. He was HUMBLE and GREAT. Or you might say, he was great even though he was humble.

Ty Cobb

 

[Tenesma]

dude a $5million home doesn't impress me... if you had said a $20million portfolio then i'd be impressed... any schmo who pulls in 700-800$ a year could get that mortgage

 

[Misterioso]

dude a $5million home doesn't impress me... if you had said a $20million portfolio then i'd be impressed... any schmo who pulls in 700-800$ a year could get that mortgage

Who said anything about impressing anyone. Only insecure people care about impressing others. You just conceded your true colors.

 

[lvspro]

Yo Dangerman
ROLMAO when I read your post so I decided to make it my signature.

 

[jwk]

Not always true. If you're an arrogant a-hole from the start then you let people know where you stand and where they stand with you from the very start. There's a few surgery attendings I know who have reputations for being supreme a-holes and nobody seems to give them any trouble. Med students get nervous when they're around, residents do their best not to do anything to piss them off, nurses stay out of their way unless it's something essential, etc.

So if you're an arrogant dingus from the start, then people will think you're just that - an arrogant dingus. That's what I wanna be when I grow up - an dingus Boy, you've REALLY got a lot to learn about real life.

Just curious - have you ever even held a job before? I mean a real job. Real paycheck, 40hr week, that kind of thing.

 

[bulletproof]

As far as those surgeons, you don't have to worry about them, they're doing just fine, arrogance and all. One of them is renowned in his specialty, lives in a $5 million dollar beachfront house and seems to have a new trophy girlfriend every other month.

I think it is fairly obvious to anyone with a high school diploma that the author of the above is clearly NOT impressed with the owner of the $5 million dollar beachouse. The inclusion of the tidbit about the trophy girlfriend was intended to underscore how unimpressed the author actually was. Tone people.....its all about tone. Carry on.
🙄

 

[Misterioso]

Good job everyone missing the point.

You're saying you can't make it in the real world if you have a bad attitude. Of course that's nonsense since we all know doctors, even ones who are prominent in their field, who are exactly that.

I gave an example of a surgeon who is considered by almost everyone as being rude, arrogant and an all around not nice of a guy. Med students, residents, fellows and nurses walk on egg shells in his presence. Yet he is renowned in his specialty, gets invited all around the world to lecture, gets patients referred to him from all over, and lives like a king. Basically he has it made and is at the pinnacle of his profession. If he's one example then there are others.

So your theory doesn't have much weight.

 

[Soon2BENT]

where are we going with this entire thread?

Will any of this matter when we're out practicing? We'll all make good money. We'll all find significant others to satify our needs. We'll all have nice homes and toys. We'll all give our contribution to medicine.

What is the argument here? Why do we care about what some nurse, student, resident, administrator, or whoever thinks?

I just want to do my my part in medicine, make my dough, go home and turn on my plasma, and enjoy every breath of air that I breathe. I want this because I know half way around the world, there is someone who is probably just like me that can't enjoy these things, never will have these things, and will never be respected.

I guess we should thank our lucky stars for the opportunity we have and cut the pissing contest a little short.

 

[Laryngospasm]

I couldnt agree more, I cant pee very far any way, I could probably win based on volume released per second after a six pack though.

where are we going with this entire thread?

Will any of this matter when we're out practicing? We'll all make good money. We'll all find significant others to satify our needs. We'll all have nice homes and toys. We'll all give our contribution to medicine.

What is the argument here? Why do we care about what some nurse, student, resident, administrator, or whoever thinks?

I just want to do my my part in medicine, make my dough, go home and turn on my plasma, and enjoy every breath of air that I breathe. I want this because I know half way around the world, there is someone who is probably just like me that can't enjoy these things, never will have these things, and will never be respected.

I guess we should thank our lucky stars for the opportunity we have and cut the pissing contest a little short.

 

[jc237]

What impresses me about this misterioso is that everyone attacks him, yet he is quite oblivious to it. No, really. I don't really think he gets mad or anything. In that regards, he reminds me of a classmate of mine. Pisses everyone off. Everybody hates him, or rather, is embarrassed to be a classmate of his. But he still thinks he's the coolest cat in class, the wonderful fool that he is. I feel sorry for him... for a second... then, he's quickly an afterthought. My friends and I hope that when he becomes a doctor, he doesn't kill too many patients.

 

[Gimlet]

What impresses me about this misterioso is that everyone attacks him, yet he is quite oblivious to it. No, really. I don't really think he gets mad or anything. In that regards, he reminds me of a classmate of mine. Pisses everyone off. Everybody hates him, or rather, is embarrassed to be a classmate of his. But he still thinks he's the coolest cat in class, the wonderful fool that he is. I feel sorry for him... for a second... then, he's quickly an afterthought. My friends and I hope that when he becomes a doctor, he doesn't kill too many patients.

Reminds me of Frank Burns on M*A*S*H, with a hint of some Charles Emerson Winchester thrown in.

 

[jwk]

Reminds me of Frank Burns on M*A*S*H, with a hint of some Charles Emerson Winchester thrown in.

I was thinking of Doug Niedermeyer from Animal House- killed by his own troops.