Respiration Question

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JDAD

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What is the consensus net production of ATP during respiration?

TPR has it at 30
EK has it at 36

Which is it?

Does NADH produce 2.5 or 3 ATP?
Does FADH2 produce 1.5 or 2 ATP?

Will the MCAT even ask this becuase they know there is scientific debate regarding the correct numbers?
 
I always learned it's 36 ATP - that's what Kaplan teaches....so 3 and 2 for NADH and FADH2 respectively. - I would think the MCAT could potentially ask you to know that 36 ATP is produced during respiration, and possibly that glycolysis produces, what is it, 4 I think?
 
I learned 36, but I doubt that this would even be asked on the MCAT, for a few reasons. One, there is plenty of conflict out there regarding the exact number (I have heard anywhere from 32 to 36). Two, everybody has already learned this at some point, and the MCAT likes to test unfamiliar things to see if we can apply past knowledge to something new.
 
Although, I did get asked what the final electron acceptor is in aerobic respiration ...
 
UCLAstudent said:
Although, I did get asked what the final electron acceptor is in aerobic respiration ...

thats a cool question with an answer thats a lot more relevant than # of atps per cycle
 
This won't be on the MCAT, it is 36 in people and 38 in prokaryotes. The reason for the discrepancy? For us respiration occurs in the mitochondria, prokaryotes don't have a mitochondria. 2 of the ATP is from Glycolysis, 6 of the ATP is an inbetween step -the decarboxylation of pyruvate into acetate. 24 is from the Krebs cycle. So we have between 4 and 6 that come from somewhere else. The answer is from the reduction of NADox that occurs in step 5 of glycolysis. In prokaryotes, since respiration occurs in the cytosol, the NADH can go directly to the first acceptor in the electron transport chain in the plasma membrane, a process that we say makes 3 ATP per NADH. In Eukaryotes the NADH must get into the mitochondria to access the electron transport chain, it does this through the glycerol-3-phosphate shuttle. NADH reduces dihydroxyacetone phosphate (thus regenerating NADox for step 5!) into glycerol-3-phosphate. Glycerol-3-phosphate is then transported into the mitochondria where it can reduce a flavoprotien in complex II, we say this process gives us 2 ATP per glycerol-3-phosphate. The glycerol-3-phosphate is converted back into dihydroxyphosphate by this oxidation and it diffuses back into the cytosol. So we see that you get 2 ATP per NADH (x2 for one glucose) produced in the cytosol for eukaryotes and 3 ATP per NADH (x2 for one glucose) produced in the cytosol for prokaryotes.



The 1.5/2.5 thing is supposed to be more accurate, but isn't in every textbook yet. Really it doesn't matter, the ATP doesn't come from the NADH or FADH, it doesn't even come from the electrons, it's strictly from the diffusion of protons through ATP synthase, energy this is dependent on the proton gradient.
 
Brickhouse said:
I always learned it's 36 ATP - that's what Kaplan teaches....so 3 and 2 for NADH and FADH2 respectively. - I would think the MCAT could potentially ask you to know that 36 ATP is produced during respiration, and possibly that glycolysis produces, what is it, 4 I think?
glycolysis produces 4 ATPs but consumes 2, so 2 net ATPs are produced in glycolysis.

<--just finished reviewing chapter 1 of EK bio 😀
 
Medikit said:
This won't be on the MCAT, it is 36 in people and 38 in prokaryotes. The reason for the discrepancy? For us respiration occurs in the mitochondria, prokaryotes don't have a mitochondria. 2 of the ATP is from Glycolysis, 6 of the ATP is an inbetween step -the decarboxylation of pyruvate into acetate. 24 is from the Krebs cycle. So we have between 4 and 6 that come from somewhere else. The answer is from the reduction of NADox that occurs in step 5 of glycolysis. In prokaryotes, since respiration occurs in the cytosol, the NADH can go directly to the first acceptor in the electron transport chain in the plasma membrane, a process that we say makes 3 ATP per NADH. In Eukaryotes the NADH must get into the mitochondria to access the electron transport chain, it does this through the glycerol-3-phosphate shuttle. NADH reduces dihydroxyacetone phosphate (thus regenerating NADox for step 5!) into glycerol-3-phosphate. Glycerol-3-phosphate is then transported into the mitochondria where it can reduce a flavoprotien in complex II, we say this process gives us 2 ATP per glycerol-3-phosphate. The glycerol-3-phosphate is converted back into dihydroxyphosphate by this oxidation and it diffuses back into the cytosol. So we see that you get 2 ATP per NADH (x2 for one glucose) produced in the cytosol for eukaryotes and 3 ATP per NADH (x2 for one glucose) produced in the cytosol for prokaryotes.



The 1.5/2.5 thing is supposed to be more accurate, but isn't in every textbook yet. Really it doesn't matter, the ATP doesn't come from the NADH or FADH, it doesn't even come from the electrons, it's strictly from the diffusion of protons through ATP synthase, energy this is dependent on the proton gradient.

They have determined exactly how many protons it takes...during the year I knew the difference between the 1.5 and the 2.5, and how many protons it was...12 I think. I can picture them fitting into the turbine...I guess this what happens in the summer
 
The ATP per NADH or FAD is a weighted mean and I think 3ATP/NADH is at maximum efficiency. Just stick with 36 and it should be fine. I'm a biochemistry major, I should know this but I suck 😛
 
JDAD said:
What is the consensus net production of ATP during respiration?

there is no consensus. MCAT ANARCHY.

as alluded to above, here's where the 2.5 & 1.5 numbers come from:

when NADH gives its electrons to to ETC, you end up with 10 H+ pumped into the inner membrane space; oxidizing FADH2 leads to only 6 H+ being pumped in (it gives up its electrons later in the ETC).

the ATP synthase requires 4 protons to run through it down the gradient per ATP it synthesizes
so each NADH should yield 10/4 =2.5 ATP
and each FADH2 should get 6/4 = 1.5 ATP


just FYI. I wouldn't stress about these numbers; understanding the big picture of cellular respiration is more important. g'luck!
 
Medikit said:
This won't be on the MCAT, it is 36 in people and 38 in prokaryotes. The reason for the discrepancy? For us respiration occurs in the mitochondria, prokaryotes don't have a mitochondria. 2 of the ATP is from Glycolysis, 6 of the ATP is an inbetween step -the decarboxylation of pyruvate into acetate. 24 is from the Krebs cycle. So we have between 4 and 6 that come from somewhere else. The answer is from the reduction of NADox that occurs in step 5 of glycolysis. In prokaryotes, since respiration occurs in the cytosol, the NADH can go directly to the first acceptor in the electron transport chain in the plasma membrane, a process that we say makes 3 ATP per NADH. In Eukaryotes the NADH must get into the mitochondria to access the electron transport chain, it does this through the glycerol-3-phosphate shuttle. NADH reduces dihydroxyacetone phosphate (thus regenerating NADox for step 5!) into glycerol-3-phosphate. Glycerol-3-phosphate is then transported into the mitochondria where it can reduce a flavoprotien in complex II, we say this process gives us 2 ATP per glycerol-3-phosphate. The glycerol-3-phosphate is converted back into dihydroxyphosphate by this oxidation and it diffuses back into the cytosol. So we see that you get 2 ATP per NADH (x2 for one glucose) produced in the cytosol for eukaryotes and 3 ATP per NADH (x2 for one glucose) produced in the cytosol for prokaryotes.



The 1.5/2.5 thing is supposed to be more accurate, but isn't in every textbook yet. Really it doesn't matter, the ATP doesn't come from the NADH or FADH, it doesn't even come from the electrons, it's strictly from the diffusion of protons through ATP synthase, energy this is dependent on the proton gradient.

😴 😴 😴
 
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