Resume/EC builders in medical school to match into top 10 residency programs?

[motu]

Hi, SDN world. I am entering my first year in med school next Fall. I am interested in neurology and radonc, but am keeping options open. In order to roughly figure out things I should (and others should) do/look into in order to be successful post-med school, I have some general questions.

What are some strong ways to build resumes in medical school in order to match into top programs? What kinds of things do the top students do, in addition to high exam scores? Publish and present research? Join interest groups? Leadership? Is being a member of med class student council worth the time spent for it?

What separates people at the high level - those who have high scores and publications?

Thank you in advance.

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[Stagg737]

Hi, SDN world. I am entering my first year in med school next Fall. I am interested in neurology and radonc, but am keeping options open. In order to roughly figure out things I should (and others should) do/look into in order to be successful post-med school, I have some general questions.

What are some strong ways to build resumes in medical school in order to match into top programs? What kinds of things do the top students do, in addition to high exam scores? Publish and present research? Join interest groups? Leadership? Is being a member of med class student council worth the time spent for it?

What separates people at the high level - those who have high scores and publications?

Thank you in advance.

Interest groups are pretty pointless unless you're interested and just doing it for personal gratification. Same with many leadership positions including student council. Research can be huge depending on the field, but even in the fields where it's less important it'll still be helpful. Especially if you're shooting for "elite" residency programs since they're typically more research oriented. Other than that, it's board scores, LORs, connections, and to a lesser extent stuff like AOA and class rank.

 

[motu]

Interest groups are pretty pointless unless you're interested and just doing it for personal gratification. Same with many leadership positions including student council. Research can be huge depending on the field, but even in the fields where it's less important it'll still be helpful. Especially if you're shooting for "elite" residency programs since they're typically more research oriented. Other than that, it's board scores, LORs, connections, and to a lesser extent stuff like AOA and class rank.

So is residency matching mainly based of grades/scores? Like, your grades and scores determine your rank and AOA.

Community service? Starting clubs? ECs? So far it feels like residency is unlike applying to undergrad or med school where they actually do care about things other than grades and test scores.

 

[ProfMD]

Different programs will have different priorities. In general, though, they care about:
Step I score
Clerkship grades relevant to that speciality
Letters of recommendation
Publications
Medical school
Personal connections
Other interesting things about you

These are in no particular order.

 

[Aerus]

Different programs will have different priorities. In general, though, they care about:
Step I score
Clerkship grades relevant to that speciality
Letters of recommendation
Publications
Medical school
Personal connections
Other interesting things about you

These are in no particular order.

This literally could be the order and I'd believe it LOL.

 

[cbrons]

So is residency matching mainly based of grades/scores? Like, your grades and scores determine your rank and AOA.

Community service? Starting clubs? ECs? So far it feels like residency is unlike applying to undergrad or med school where they actually do care about things other than grades and test scores.

Ive answered this question a lot recently. Community service, student government, interest groups etc. mean absolutely nothing for residency.

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[RogueBanana]

Hi, SDN world. I am entering my first year in med school next Fall. I am interested in neurology and radonc, but am keeping options open. In order to roughly figure out things I should (and others should) do/look into in order to be successful post-med school, I have some general questions.

What are some strong ways to build resumes in medical school in order to match into top programs? What kinds of things do the top students do, in addition to high exam scores? Publish and present research? Join interest groups? Leadership? Is being a member of med class student council worth the time spent for it?

What separates people at the high level - those who have high scores and publications?

Thank you in advance.

The gunning is strong in this one...

 

[Anti-PD1]

The highest yield non-step, non-clerkship, non-LOR, non-Sub I's thing you can do is research.

 

[Stagg737]

So is residency matching mainly based of grades/scores? Like, your grades and scores determine your rank and AOA.

Community service? Starting clubs? ECs? So far it feels like residency is unlike applying to undergrad or med school where they actually do care about things other than grades and test scores.

Applying to residency is absolutely nothing like applying to college or med school. By then, they expect that you're capable of being a well-rounded individual and their primary questions are "Are you the best candidate for this job?/Do you have adequate foundational knowledge to perform this job?" and "Can we stand working with you 10-12 hours every single day for the next 3-6 years?". If the answer to any of those questions is no, then who cares if you're "well-rounded".

If you wouldn't have gotten to the residency match if you hadn't demonstrated that you were well-rounded a dozen of times along the way, so why should they care about it yet again? Residency matching is largely based off of grades/scores (which show you have the foundational knowledge needed and how you do in clinical years and your LORs (which tell them if you're actually good at working with patients and co-workers).

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

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[sovereign0]

I feel like the reason this question is asked so much is because the answer is a total 180 from what we are used to. If you told a high schooler, undergrad, or applicant that things like leadership and community service played no role in what comes next, you'd get some funny looks.

 

[motu]

Applying to residency is absolutely nothing like applying to college or med school. By then, they expect that you're capable of being a well-rounded individual and their primary questions are "Are you the best candidate for this job?/Do you have adequate foundational knowledge to perform this job?" and "Can we stand working with you 10-12 hours every single day for the next 3-6 years?". If the answer to any of those questions is no, then who cares if you're "well-rounded".

If you wouldn't have gotten to the residency match if you hadn't demonstrated that you were well-rounded a dozen of times along the way, so why should they care about it yet again? Residency matching is largely based off of grades/scores (which show you have the foundational knowledge needed and how you do in clinical years and your LORs (which tell them if you're actually good at working with patients and co-workers).

Alright that make sense. So ultimately it could be just a few hundredths/thousandths of a point that determines if you match or not in a particular place.

I feel like the reason this question is asked so much is because the answer is a total 180 from what we are used to. If you told a high schooler, undergrad, or applicant that things like leadership and community service played no role in what comes next, you'd get some funny looks.

Haha this is true. I am giving that funny look right now. After being told for so long to be well-rounded, now it shifts towards ultimately what really matters, now that the rest has already been proven by achieving an acceptance to medical school.

 

[libertyyne]

Alright that make sense. So ultimately it could be just a few hundredths/thousandths of a point that determines if you match or not in a particular place.



Haha this is true. I am giving that funny look right now. After being told for so long to be well-rounded, now it shifts towards ultimately what really matters, now that the rest has already been proven by achieving an acceptance to medical school.

Here is the info from the horse's mouth

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/NRMP-2016-Program-Director-Survey.pdf

 

[Stagg737]

Alright that make sense. So ultimately it could be just a few hundredths/thousandths of a point that determines if you match or not in a particular place.

Typically no, it'll be more than that. General rule of thumb is your CV (board scores, research done, class rank and clinical grades, AOA) get you the interview which gets your foot in the door. Once you've got the interview they care much less about that stuff and your LORs, personal statement, and your general fit with the interviewer and other residents plays a bigger role. @libertyyne 's post shows what's important in gaining an interview. There's another chart from the nrmp site that shows what is most important post-interview.

 

[libertyyne]

Its pretty much the same with interview performance incorporated. Obviously if you are doing stupid stuff during interview day they will hold it against you. Otherwise the ranking stays pretty similar.

 

[Frogger27]

Here is the info from the horse's mouth
View attachment 216546

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/NRMP-2016-Program-Director-Survey.pdf

I never know is it better to look at % citing or the average rating to determine most important

 

[libertyyne]

I never know is it better to look at % citing or the average rating to determine most important

You are probably better looking at the specialty you are interested in.

 

[Astra]

one important thing to note is that these graphs are for all specialties combined and not all specialties have equal number of residency programs, so the smaller residencies are going to be overshadowed.

Different specialties give importance to different things. For example, reading the Ortho forums, AOA is pretty up there and not having it is a big disadvantage. This is definitely not the case for say family medicine.

I would say use the graphs @libertyyne posted to know what residencies are looking for and then browse the specialty forums/ talk to your home institution to learn the hierarchy of the items.

 

[libertyyne]

one important thing to note is that these graphs are for all specialties combined and not all specialties have equal number of residency programs, so the smaller residencies are going to be overshadowed.

Different specialties give importance to different things. For example, reading the Ortho forums, AOA is pretty up there and not having it is a big disadvantage. This is definitely not the case for say family medicine.

I would say use the graphs @libertyyne posted to know what residencies are looking for and then browse the specialty forums/ talk to your home institution to learn the hierarchy of the items.

The NRMP Director survey has a breakdown by specialty as well.

 

[Astra]

The NRMP Director survey has a breakdown by specialty as well.
View attachment 216552

I should really stop being lazy and search for it myself

Also, lol at you posting neurosurgery. 2meta4me

 

[raiderette]

Interest groups are for food your first year, shadowing help your second year, and things that clog up your email any other time.

 

[ace_inhibitor111]

This is exactly what they told me in college. "Don't worry about ECs, this isn't like high school. GPA and MCAT are everything." Look at the process now lol. Anyway, I would think student leadership would be necessary to get AOA once you meet the academic cut offs.

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

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[hizziaips]

This year's match thread for IM: Official 2017 Match Results!!!