Rethinking the MEPN

[merky]

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After reading all of the posts here about NPs, I am thinking twice about my Accelerated Pathway to the MSN program (2 yrs BSN, 1-2 yrs MSN). I'm slated to attend Jefferson in Philly this fall. I have 5 years pt care experience as a technician (polysomnography)/ + BS Biology. Sure, the experience makes it easier to relate to pts and understand biological concepts, but how does this make me a competent clinician???? I am having a true identity crisis.

It seems that the only good things I've heard about NPs come from other NPs. Based on what I've read here, they graduate ME-NP's with approx. 800 clincal hours?? .

If anyone has any useful insight into this healthcare identity crisis, please, feel free...I am unwilling/too obstinate/have too young a child (you know, the excuse list) to jump through the hoops to get into med school, so this is my ONLY shot at being a clinician. But, d#mn if I don't want to be good at it.

I have laid my douchey-ness (for lack of a better word) bare for all. Is that indeed how ME-NPs are perceived?? As being douch-ey? My apologies if this term has offended anybody. OK, done rambling for now, but you know how 3rd shift is .

 

[core0]

After reading all of the posts here about NPs, I am thinking twice about my Accelerated Pathway to the MSN program (2 yrs BSN, 1-2 yrs MSN). I'm slated to attend Jefferson in Philly this fall. I have 5 years pt care experience as a technician (polysomnography)/ + BS Biology. Sure, the experience makes it easier to relate to pts and understand biological concepts, but how does this make me a competent clinician???? I am having a true identity crisis.

It seems that the only good things I've heard about NPs come from other NPs. Based on what I've read here, they graduate ME-NP's with approx. 800 clincal hours?? .

If anyone has any useful insight into this healthcare identity crisis, please, feel free...I am unwilling/too obstinate/have too young a child (you know, the excuse list) to jump through the hoops to get into med school, so this is my ONLY shot at being a clinician. But, d#mn if I don't want to be good at it.

I have laid my douchey-ness (for lack of a better word) bare for all. Is that indeed how ME-NPs are perceived?? As being douch-ey? My apologies if this term has offended anybody. OK, done rambling for now, but you know how 3rd shift is .

The problem is that all the information is anecdotal. If you look on allnurses there are MEPN graduates that claim that all their classmates are gainfully employed as NPs at huge salaries. Others are bemoaning the fact that they can't get any job. The problem is that you are not really going to be accepted by nursing since you haven't "paid your dues". In academic centers and large practices they are the ones that make the hiring decisions.

On a factual basis the large academic medical center where I work which has multiple MEPN programs will not hire any NP without two years of full time work as an RN. So they refuse to hire their own MEPN grads (although several are working here as RNs).

A BSN followed by several years of work then the more traditional NP (or DNP depending on the timing) is probably more accepted (at least anectdotally).

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[fab4fan]

After reading all of the posts here about NPs, I am thinking twice about my Accelerated Pathway to the MSN program (2 yrs BSN, 1-2 yrs MSN). I'm slated to attend Jefferson in Philly this fall. I have 5 years pt care experience as a technician (polysomnography)/ + BS Biology. Sure, the experience makes it easier to relate to pts and understand biological concepts, but how does this make me a competent clinician???? I am having a true identity crisis.

It seems that the only good things I've heard about NPs come from other NPs. Based on what I've read here, they graduate ME-NP's with approx. 800 clincal hours?? .

If anyone has any useful insight into this healthcare identity crisis, please, feel free...I am unwilling/too obstinate/have too young a child (you know, the excuse list) to jump through the hoops to get into med school, so this is my ONLY shot at being a clinician. But, d#mn if I don't want to be good at it.

I have laid my douchey-ness (for lack of a better word) bare for all. Is that indeed how ME-NPs are perceived?? As being douch-ey? My apologies if this term has offended anybody. OK, done rambling for now, but you know how 3rd shift is .

As an RN with 23y of experience, I wouldn't have one for a provider. Period. If you want to be a practitioner, then knuckle under and do the hard work to become one. No shortcuts. These are people's lives we are talking about, you know. And if you only get one shot, then let your one shot be great.

I hate it that the fast-food culture has crept into healthcare education. Nothing person against you, it seems like everyone with a dollar and a dream is doing it these days.

 

[lapelirroja]

You could go to PA school...

 

[Farmer Jane]

As an RN with 23y of experience, I wouldn't have one for a provider. Period. If you want to be a practitioner, then knuckle under and do the hard work to become one. No shortcuts. These are people's lives we are talking about, you know. And if you only get one shot, then let your one shot be great.

I hate it that the fast-food culture has crept into healthcare education. Nothing person against you, it seems like everyone with a dollar and a dream is doing it these days.

This. Okay, well, I haven't had 23 years of experience just yet--more like six. I would not go to a direct entry NP. Nurse practitioner programs were initially designed to build upon the knowledge gained by experience as a nurse, so someone entering a DNP program without experience is missing a lot. PA programs, on the other hand, were designed to make a clinician out of someone sans that experience.

 

[merky]

This. Okay, well, I haven't had 23 years of experience just yet--more like six. I would not go to a direct entry NP. Nurse practitioner programs were initially designed to build upon the knowledge gained by experience as a nurse, so someone entering a DNP program without experience is missing a lot. PA programs, on the other hand, were designed to make a clinician out of someone sans that experience.

Yes, the MEPN just seems a bit, well, silly. I don't take offense to it at all. I was duped by my school, a reptuable one at that, into thinking that becuase they offer the program, it must be valid. What a farse! They don't care how their students fare in the real world, they just want their >$80K in tuition fees!

My undergrad GPA is a 3.08 . I have all the pre-reqs for PA school complete, just not the high caliber grades. What would you PAs suggest I do to make myself more attractive for PA school? How many years would be best to work as an RN before undertaking the NP? I've heard conservative estimates at AT LEAST 5 years.

Thanks for your imput!

 

[fab4fan]

Yes, the MEPN just seems a bit, well, silly. I don't take offense to it at all. I was duped by my school, a reptuable one at that, into thinking that becuase they offer the program, it must be valid. What a farse! They don't care how their students fare in the real world, they just want their >$80K in tuition fees!

My undergrad GPA is a 3.08 . I have all the pre-reqs for PA school complete, just not the high caliber grades. What would you PAs suggest I do to make myself more attractive for PA school? How many years would be best to work as an RN before undertaking the NP? I've heard conservative estimates at AT LEAST 5 years.

Thanks for your imput!

I don't think there's a magic number when it comes to experience in nursing. The first year alone is just getting your fundamentals down and learning how to be a nurse.

Wow, 80K. I'd really proceed with caution. Good luck to you.

 

[deleted6669]

PA programs, on the other hand, were designed to make a clinician out of someone sans that experience.

pa programs have included nurses as applicants for yrs(in the early classes about 1/3 of students were rn's) but medics and rt's as well as medical assts are probably more typical applicants....you made it sound like pa programs were designed for those without any experience and I am sure that was not your intent....

 

[Farmer Jane]

My apologies, when I wrote "sans that experience" I meant that specific experience.



ETA: Oh, and $80K is ridiculous. Run far, far away.

 

[merky]

My apologies, when I wrote "sans that experience" I meant that specific experience.



ETA: Oh, and $80K is ridiculous. Run far, far away.

Yeah, $27K/yr for first two yrs getting BSN w/ some MSN credits, and I'm assuming another cool $30 for 24 grad credits to get FNP. That's Thomas Jefferson in Philadelphia, as even the admissions person hinted-- it's not Ivy League, but it's got the price tag!!

I'll have to work as a floor nurse for a few years to get that lovely tuition reimbursement money, which at least would give me an iota of experience. Still, hesitant.

Hey, emedpa, is direct solicitation of offices with PAs the best way to find a PA to shadow?

 

[bradt9881]

Hey, emedpa, is direct solicitation of offices with PAs the best way to find a PA to shadow?

I am not EMED, but a good source is the state PA association where you are located; they usually keep track of members who are willing to sponsor students for shadowing/rotations....

 

[oldiebutgoodie]

I would go to PA school, if I were you. (If it fits into your life, finances, geographical location, etc.) I am currently in an NP program, which, although considered highly (anyway, by other nurses), I think is kind of lame, and I can't believer that it would actually train me to make independent clinical decisions.

Whenever I ask things like, "When will I learn how to manage diabetes?" ( you know, actually specifics like basal vs bolus, how much, sliding scales, etc.) the answer I usually get is "Oh, you learn it in your clinical".

So you are probably wondering why I am not in PA school.
1. I can do this NP thing part time.
2. Can't afford to not work for two years and pay the high-priced tuition.
3. Will actually probably get a CNS, not an NP right away, because in my specialty, it gives me some bells and whistles, but I won't be practicing independently.

Anyway, good luck to you.

Oldiebutgoodie
(a long time lurker, new poster)

 

[VTgirl82]

Merky, I am a Polysomnographic technologist too! I have been working in a clinic for 3 years in VT and I am ready to do something more. I had thought about med school, but now I am happier with the idea of becoming an NP. Nurse practitioners are well accepted in my part of the country and many people that have them as their general practitioner think that they receive superb care. One of the great benefits of an NP is that they often have more time to spend with their patients because they are not billing out at the same pay as an MD and often have smaller "quotas" to make. Also, their model stresses highly upon patient education and preventative care.

So I've applied to a MEPN program and should hear back in the next few days. The program that I am interested in takes 15 months to become an RN after already holding a bachelors degree, which is 45-48 credits. Then the FNP track is a total of 57.5 graduate credits which if taken full-time takes 2.5 years or you can do it on part-time basis.

The first year is intense, were talking about 16-17 graduate credits a semester but you are taking all nursing classes and having practicals. So while this part is only 15 months it skips all of the gen ed classes and some basic sciences that students have already taken. Then after this I plan on doing what most students do, which is to work full-time as an RN and complete the masters NP portion part-time while gaining several years of experience as a floor nurse. Lets say the program takes me 4-4.5 years to complete while also gaining valuable RN experience. I will finish with the ability to work as a Family Nurse Practitioner, but of course if i want to specialize, I may need to go back to school.
Merky, I will say this, I would be troubled by an MSN program that is telling you that you will be prepared after only 24 credits! Maybe that is 24 credits of theory and then there are the practicals on top of that?

 

[merky]

Merky, I am a Polysomnographic technologist too! I have been working in a clinic for 3 years in VT and I am ready to do something more. I had thought about med school, but now I am happier with the idea of becoming an NP. Nurse practitioners are well accepted in my part of the country and many people that have them as their general practitioner think that they receive superb care. One of the great benefits of an NP is that they often have more time to spend with their patients because they are not billing out at the same pay as an MD and often have smaller "quotas" to make. Also, their model stresses highly upon patient education and preventative care.

So I've applied to a MEPN program and should hear back in the next few days. The program that I am interested in takes 15 months to become an RN after already holding a bachelors degree, which is 45-48 credits. Then the FNP track is a total of 57.5 graduate credits which if taken full-time takes 2.5 years or you can do it on part-time basis.

The first year is intense, were talking about 16-17 graduate credits a semester but you are taking all nursing classes and having practicals. So while this part is only 15 months it skips all of the gen ed classes and some basic sciences that students have already taken. Then after this I plan on doing what most students do, which is to work full-time as an RN and complete the masters NP portion part-time while gaining several years of experience as a floor nurse. Lets say the program takes me 4-4.5 years to complete while also gaining valuable RN experience. I will finish with the ability to work as a Family Nurse Practitioner, but of course if i want to specialize, I may need to go back to school.
Merky, I will say this, I would be troubled by an MSN program that is telling you that you will be prepared after only 24 credits! Maybe that is 24 credits of theory and then there are the practicals on top of that?

Hey fellow sleepy-tech. I've been doing PSG for 4 years (wow, scary) and am likewise ready for more. I can really appreciate the preventative care aspect of NP. I think my grad program is 36 credits for the MSN on top of the BSN (12 creds are taken during BSN portion). I'll have to look at that again. Anyways, the school is Thomas Jefferson in Philly, which is highly regarded, but that doesn't make it sit easier with me. A PP mentioned about how her(his?? sorry) MSN program was a joke, and that's exactly what I'm afraid of! I think if I do it, I'll do it your way, working as an RN to get experience while finishing the MSN.

I could do PA school but I don't know if I'd ever see my very young son during those 2 years. It's a year-round program after all, very intense. Much thinking to do. Oy, am I schmitzing over here!

 

[merky]

I would go to PA school, if I were you. (If it fits into your life, finances, geographical location, etc.) I am currently in an NP program, which, although considered highly (anyway, by other nurses), I think is kind of lame, and I can't believer that it would actually train me to make independent clinical decisions.

Whenever I ask things like, "When will I learn how to manage diabetes?" ( you know, actually specifics like basal vs bolus, how much, sliding scales, etc.) the answer I usually get is "Oh, you learn it in your clinical".

So you are probably wondering why I am not in PA school.
1. I can do this NP thing part time.
2. Can't afford to not work for two years and pay the high-priced tuition.
3. Will actually probably get a CNS, not an NP right away, because in my specialty, it gives me some bells and whistles, but I won't be practicing independently.

Anyway, good luck to you.

Oldiebutgoodie
(a long time lurker, new poster)

Hi Oldie,

Are they really that dismissive? Wow. That is frightening. Is there any sort of thesis involved in these MSN programs? I mean, what is the standard?? Do we have any in the field?? Sorry to be so negative- just sick of these fluffy grad programs sans substance!! What a great way to mire yourself in wads of debt.

One more question, could you elaborate on the CNS path? That is an option with my program but I'm not sure what the end result of that is. Much appreciated!

--merky