Rise

[Cloaca]

When do we get our stupid RISE results back??? Anyone have a clue?

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[Pingu]

Scores are supposed to come out tomorrow by email. The list of descriptors from this years exam is already posted on the ascp website if you really care.

 

[pathc]

They are up. I am worried. Can we say dismissal

 

[rirriri]

they are definitely out.....is it just me or do the averages for the years look WAY lower than previous years?

 

[residentninfan]

Any correlation with Board Scores? I seem to remember being told many moons ago that there was a magic score that correlated well with passing boards.
I know that RISE isn't boards and all of that, but it does give you a peer-group comparison in similar subject material...

 

[dodobird13]

they are definitely out.....is it just me or do the averages for the years look WAY lower than previous years?

they ARE way lower....... wtf? it makes it kind of difficult to compare your own scores across years.

the rumor I'm sure we all heard was RISE >500 roughly correlates with passing boards.... but I don't buy it.

 

[Pingu]

they are definitely out.....is it just me or do the averages for the years look WAY lower than previous years?

I'm glad someone else thought this too. This was exactly what I thought.

Any correlation with Board Scores? I seem to remember being told many moons ago that there was a magic score that correlated well with passing boards.
I know that RISE isn't boards and all of that, but it does give you a peer-group comparison in similar subject material...

The magic score is supposed to be 500 BUT if 70-80% of people pass the boards and the 4th year average is 491 then something is off because even not knowing the standard deviation, that is less than 50% of 4th years above 500.

My RISE score correlated exactly with what I had and hadn't studied for the boards...so it pretty much told me what I already knew about my level of preparation.

 

[residentninfan]

I'm glad someone else thought this too. This was exactly what I thought.



The magic score is supposed to be 500 BUT if 70-80% of people pass the boards and the 4th year average is 491 then something is off because even not knowing the standard deviation, that is less than 50% of 4th years above 500.

My RISE score correlated exactly with what I had and hadn't studied for the boards...so it pretty much told me what I already knew about my level of preparation.

Thanks, I thought 500 was the 'magic number' and saw the averages and got confused. Seems CP average scores are low, and average AP might be a little high.

Though not related to the RISE, I do know one year recently the CP pass rate was 57%; much lower than the usual rate of ~70%.

 

[gbwillner]

I just saw my score.... WTF? What do those numbers mean? There are no statistics included to give significance to your score (standard deviations). Is there statistical difference between 1st and 4th years in ANYTHING? How do I know how I fared with other first years, other than knowing my "score" is higher or lower than the mean? If my score is a 380 and the average is a 400, does that mean I'm the biggest idiot this year or that I'm within a sort of normal range?

 

[Pingu]

Though not related to the RISE, I do know one year recently the CP pass rate was 57%; much lower than the usual rate of ~70%.

Holy crap. I thought they looked a bell curve of the scores and set a passing percentage. 57% percent is BAD.

My method is to look at the 4th year average in each section...if I'm at or below the average then those are the areas I need to concentrate on. But like I said before, I had studied some areas very heavily in the time right before the RISE and my scores definitely reflect where I put the effort in, so the RISE did show that I'm studying effectively.

 

[yaah]

You can access boards passing info on abpath.org (newsletters).

For 2008, 76% of people passed AP, 64% passed CP. For 2007, it was 73% and 59%.

However, those numbers are a bit misleading - for first time test takers the pass rates were 88% AP and 77% CP for 2008, and 86% and 72% for 2007. It is the performance of repeat test takers that brings down the overall average, since 25% of test takers are repeaters.

Perhaps RISE scores were lower this year because programs were more strict in the administration of it? I know at our program, in previous years you could take it whenever you wanted, and theoretically you could take it with textbooks beside you and look up questions (although obviously you weren't supposed to do that and the RISE told you not to). This year, our program had proctored sessions, I suspect we weren't alone in that. That could drag down scores quite a bit since I suspect lots of people cheat and don't admit they cheat because they convince themselves they aren't really cheating.

 

[yaah]

Previous thread on RISE here - last year's "results meaning" discussion: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=521592

More here:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=207694

 

[SLUsagar]

they ARE way lower....... wtf? it makes it kind of difficult to compare your own scores across years.

the rumor I'm sure we all heard was RISE >500 roughly correlates with passing boards.... but I don't buy it.

do NOT hang your hat on "rumors" of a 500 or whatever #. this also means don't stress if you're not at this level. until people (statistically sign. #) who actually failed the exam post their RISE scores and a proper correlation study is performed to determine what RISE score ~ board passing rate, i'd completely ignore ANY such ridiculous rumors and just go about your day.

 

[path28]

Can anyone post last year's averages for the test and each section, for each year of residents? I think that'd help put this year's scores in perspective since it seems this year's scores are lower than usual. Either that or we're all getting dumber? 🙂

 

[KluverB]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

 

[Doctor Zaius]

Here are last years averages, seem to be about 40 pts higher than this year across the board


And I definitely am getting dumber....

overall 1 2 3 4
Total Score 487 443 479 502 529
Anatomic Pathology
Cytopathology 463 397 459 489 517
Forensic 508 478 502 521 535
Surgical 486 429 472 505 545
Clinical Pathology
Chemistry 503 478 501 507 528
Hematology 476 423 464 492 523
Microbiology 500 463 490 507 540
Transfusion Med 503 462 493 512 544
Special Topics
Hematopathology 396 326 381 422 468
Lab Admin 491 461 486 504 518
Special Tech 467 414 455 488 517

 

[2121115]

However, those numbers are a bit misleading - for first time test takers the pass rates were 88% AP and 77% CP for 2008, and 86% and 72% for 2007. It is the performance of repeat test takers that brings down the overall average, since 25% of test takers are repeaters.

How can that be? If 77% and 88% pass the first time, how can 25% be repeat testers? Unless they failed multiple times?

 

[Cyton]

Perhaps RISE scores were lower this year because programs were more strict in the administration of it? I know at our program, in previous years you could take it whenever you wanted, and theoretically you could take it with textbooks beside you and look up questions (although obviously you weren't supposed to do that and the RISE told you not to). This year, our program had proctored sessions, I suspect we weren't alone in that. That could drag down scores quite a bit since I suspect lots of people cheat and don't admit they cheat because they convince themselves they aren't really cheating.

Its about time that programs started trying to standardize, proctor, and streamline this BS test.

Now they should come up with a more relevant test with questions that approximate the boards... Especially since retesting will be done every ten years.

They should really standardize pathology education in general..
While they're at it standardize sign out nomenclature, synoptics, etc.

Imagine signing out with only a selected number of choices and IHC/FISH/Molecular algorithmic pathways for each entity. Cases would be signed out by checking boxes in a program that limits the specific way entities could be classified. (kind of like the CAP cancer protocols)


This would then correlate to the optimal evidence based oncotherapeutic, surgical or noninterventional course.

This approach could save millions and millions of dollars over time.

That will never happen because pathology is "EMINENCE base medicine."

Too many experts with agendas and books to sell and egos to massage.

 

[yaah]

How can that be? If 77% and 88% pass the first time, how can 25% be repeat testers? Unless they failed multiple times?

You are allowed to take it several times - maybe 5? Repeat test takers have a low success rate at passing.

 

[Notsoanon]

Interesting you should mention those terrifying CP pass rates. <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com

University</st😛laceType> of <st😛laceName w:st="on">Utah </st😛laceName>just got word it's one of 8 programs in the country with a 100% CP pass rate (the timeline they looked at was 2001-2008). We're all chomping at the bit waiting for more molecular genetics questions on these tests. Boards are stressful no matter where you come from, though. You're not guaranteed to pass boards if you go to U<st1:State w:st="on">tah,</st1:State> just like you're not guaranteed if you get 550 on the RISE. (The numbers I heard at the ASCP meeting 2 years ago were 500 = highly predictive of pass, >550 = virtually 100% pass.)<O😛</O😛

 

[dodobird13]

speaking of a rise score >550, does anyone have any idea what the highest score is (or could be)? i love how there is no information given on question weights, standard deviation, etc. in that sense it is a perfect prep for the boards. yay!

 

[Notsoanon]

Don't know what the highest score is, but we did interview a faculty candidate who did her residency on the east somewhere (forget where, maybe MSK) and one of her co-residents (several years ago) got the highest score nationally and got a certificate for it.

I think Program Directors get more information in a seperate e-mail. Ask yours if they will share.

 

[yaah]

You can get a 999 on each individual section (that is 0 wrong).

 

[path28]

Do they at least send the percentiles to the program directors, or do they no longer even send those #'s to anyone (on the thread from 2005 about the RISE that yaah listed there were percentiles posted)?? It would be exceedingly more useful to have standard devs or percentiles to have a better sense of where we stand, vs. just above or below average.

 

[Gene_]

Do they at least send the percentiles to the program directors, or do they no longer even send those #'s to anyone (on the thread from 2005 about the RISE that yaah listed there were percentiles posted)?? It would be exceedingly more useful to have standard devs or percentiles to have a better sense of where we stand, vs. just above or below average.

It may be better not to overanalyze results. For me, the areas in which I scored lower in are the ones I will study more this year.

 

[britthumme]

ALL HAIL BRITTHUMME

Mean and Std. Dev for each PGY for overall RISE 2009:

YEAR MEAN ST.DEV.
PGY1 407 38
PGY2 437 43
PGY3 461 41
PGY4 491 46

And for a shortcut to calculate your percentile go to: http://bayes.bgsu.edu/nsf_web/jscript/normal_cdf/normal_icdf.htm
which assumes a normal distribution. Enter mean, st.dev, and probability (percentile) IN THE FORM OF DECIMAL (ex: .9 for 90th percentile), click compute and it will give you the score at that percentile. Fiddle with the probablility until it gives you your score and the probability corresponds to your percentile. You all know how Britt did.

 

[path28]

Thanks!! Do they send those to the program directors, or where do they publish that info? I wonder why they don't include it on the score reports to the residents?