RN-BSN wanting to be an MD

[ibjudo]

Hello readers,
I am a 25 year old RN who had graduated with a 3.1 GPA (in NYC) with a bachelors degree in Nursing. I have worked for 1 year on the job and as I was sort of "free to practice" without the restraints of being a student, now that I am licensed I realize that I should definitely pursue my dream of being a cardiothoracic surgeon. I finished nursing school because my mom advised me to go when I was 18, she said you still get to help people and its not as hard as medical school. I am glad I took her advice , however I need to do this for me and I know that I can contribute something special into the field of medicine. I have read multiple articles on line about how to do this and the stigma I am about to face from my colleagues , honestly I don't really care about that ... what I do care about is me getting into a good school and then moving on to Medical school. I recently went to Fordham university and Columbia university which both have pre med post baccaluareate programs for people just like me, now obviously Fordham can not compete with reputation of an IV league school , Fordham does not even have any health majors like Nursing, PT, PA, or MD .. nothing... and het they have this program which incidentally is so much cheaper than Columbia Fordham - 800$ per credit Columbia 1,700$ per credit almost double ! and I need to take 30 credits according them (both schools)

Does anyone have any advice for me, word of caution any final words, advice on which school to chose...
Anything helps
Thank you in advance

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[Pleides]

I do not think where you do your post-bacc matters too much as long as it is a reputable university. Go with the cheaper option. The route to medical school is extremely expensive as is medical school itself. Good luck.

 

[Siromas]

Hello readers,
I am a 25 year old RN who had graduated with a 3.1 GPA (in NYC) with a bachelors degree in Nursing. I have worked for 1 year on the job and as I was sort of "free to practice" without the restraints of being a student, now that I am licensed I realize that I should definitely pursue my dream of being a cardiothoracic surgeon. I finished nursing school because my mom advised me to go when I was 18, she said you still get to help people and its not as hard as medical school. I am glad I took her advice , however I need to do this for me and I know that I can contribute something special into the field of medicine. I have read multiple articles on line about how to do this and the stigma I am about to face from my colleagues , honestly I don't really care about that ... what I do care about is me getting into a good school and then moving on to Medical school. I recently went to Fordham university and Columbia university which both have pre med post baccaluareate programs for people just like me, now obviously Fordham can not compete with reputation of an IV league school , Fordham does not even have any health majors like Nursing, PT, PA, or MD .. nothing... and het they have this program which incidentally is so much cheaper than Columbia Fordham - 800$ per credit Columbia 1,700$ per credit almost double ! and I need to take 30 credits according them (both schools)

Does anyone have any advice for me, word of caution any final words, advice on which school to chose...
Anything helps
Thank you in advance

A few (non-inclusive) tips:
- Definitely would fulfill all the prereqs at the cheaper school (so long as it is accredited).
- Take as long as you need to in order to ace all the classes (even if that means 1-2 classes a semester)
- Craft a meaningful and well-developed personal statement as to why become a physician instead of continuing as a nurse

 

[Saifa]

If you can offer a good narrative for why you're transitioning from your past experience in nursing and what you learned from it, it will get you far in applying. Just make sure you do well at your post-bacc studies.

 

[RN2MD326]

I am in the same path finishing my bsn to continue on to post bac. I would say definitely follow your passion and do so at the cheaper school. Make sure you keep going and don’t look back, kick butt in the post bac program. And thanks for the tip!! I might look into their school as well. Go without second doubts and let us know how it goes, because I am right behind you. God Bless you!

 

[Disciple of Sattar]

What if you couldn't be a cardiothoracic surgeon, would you still want to be a physician?

 

[stickgirl390]

What if you couldn't be a cardiothoracic surgeon, would you still want to be a physician?

This^^^^

 

[ibjudo]

What if you couldn't be a cardiothoracic surgeon, would you still want to be a physician?

Well, if I couldn’t be a cardiothoracic surgeon I would probably go into neurology, and be an epileptiologist. I have had a seizure disorder since I was 15 so I would love to give some hope back to the kids that will be diagnosed with this crappy burden.

 

[ibjudo]

I am in the same path finishing my bsn to continue on to post bac. I would say definitely follow your passion and do so at the cheaper school. Make sure you keep going and don’t look back, kick butt in the post bac program. And thanks for the tip!! I might look into their school as well. Go without second doubts and let us know how it goes, because I am right behind you. God Bless you!

Thanks for the kind words! I will keep you updated in years to come on this thread. Also there is a website from AMCAS , where you can find list of post bacc pre med programs in your state/near you. I can’t post links yet unfortunately sorry, but if you google post abc pre med program, then click on the amcas website it should lead you there.

 

[curbsideconsult]

Did the person you spoke with at Columbia say you could get in with a 3.1 GPA? According to their info page, most successful applicants have around a 3.65.

Like what everyone else said, it doesn't matter where you do your prereqs as long as it's at an accredited institution. The linkages at Columbia are nice, but I don't think, in this case, the cost difference is worth it. Fordham is a perfectly respectable place to do it. Plus their requirement is only that you have at least a 3.0 to get in.

Also, make sure your nursing science classes will count for med school prereqs. Many of them don't. I took a look at Hunter's nursing degree requirements and their chemistry, for example, is lower than the chemistry required of chem/bio/other science majors, which is the level of science you need for entrance to med school.

 

[ibjudo]

Did the person you spoke with at Columbia say you could get in with a 3.1 GPA? According to their info page, most successful applicants have around a 3.65.

Like what everyone else said, it doesn't matter where you do your prereqs as long as it's at an accredited institution. The linkages at Columbia are nice, but I don't think, in this case, the cost difference is worth it. Fordham is a perfectly respectable place to do it. Plus their requirement is only that you have at least a 3.0 to get in.

Also, make sure your nursing science classes will count for med school prereqs. Many of them don't. I took a look at Hunter's nursing degree requirements and their chemistry, for example, is lower than the chemistry required of chem/bio/other science majors, which is the level of science you need for entrance to med school.

Oh ye, I definitely would have to take most of the sciences and math prerequisites over because mine are over 5 years old and med school don’t want to see any pre reqs over 5. I did attend a Columbia info session they said the do accept people with 3.0+ into the post bacc program (not med school). But to get to medachool I need a higher GPA like 3.5+ I think you got confused when I mentioned post bacc and pre med. I think it’s a good idea for me to retake things like chemistry maths just so I get more familiar, and get prepared for Mcat.
Thank you everyone for your support!

 

[curbsideconsult]

Oh ye, I definitely would have to take most of the sciences and math prerequisites over because mine are over 5 years old and med school don’t want to see any pre reqs over 5. I did attend a Columbia info session they said the do accept people with 3.0+ into the post bacc program (not med school). But to get to medachool I need a higher GPA like 3.5+ I think you got confused when I mentioned post bacc and pre med. I think it’s a good idea for me to retake things like chemistry maths just so I get more familiar, and get prepared for Mcat.
Thank you everyone for your support!

Straight from the website: "At a minimum, successful applicants must possess an overall cumulative GPA of 3.0; most successful applicants, however, have an average GPA of 3.65." Applying to the Postbac Premed Program | Columbia Postbac Premed

 

[ibjudo]

Ok thanks

 

[Osminog]

I recommend doing your post-bacc at CUNY Hunter (Information for Prospective Post-Baccalaureate Students — Hunter College) or CCNY (Post-Baccalaureate | The City College of New York). These options are much, much more affordable than Columbia and Fordham, and they'll get you into med school if you do well.

 

[ibjudo]

I thought about hunter, the thing with them is I have to wait until next year February , to apply and then I would start in fall 2019 . The good thing about this is it will give me time to pay off my loans from nursing school and cost me less and will give me time to think concretely about med school and all pros and cons. But I’ll be sacrificing a year and a half to do so. But of course it will cost less much less to be honest and hunter is a great school I agree. I’ll be 27 entering post bacc, let’s say I do it fast in 2 years I’ll be 29-30 applying to med school. I dunno does that seem old to you guys? Or should I wait for hunter (of course there is no guarantee I get in lol)
Ps. Thank you for bringing this point up I was thinking hard on this too... but couldn’t make a logical decision what also sucks is that I’m alone I can’t go to like a family member for advice I’m a first generation college student in my family.
Thanks you all

 

[Osminog]

I thought about hunter, the thing with them is I have to wait until next year February , to apply and then I would start in fall 2019 . The good thing about this is it will give me time to pay off my loans from nursing school and cost me less and will give me time to think concretely about med school and all pros and cons. But I’ll be sacrificing a year and a half to do so. But of course it will cost less much less to be honest and hunter is a great school I agree. I’ll be 27 entering post bacc, let’s say I do it fast in 2 years I’ll be 29-30 applying to med school. I dunno does that seem old to you guys? Or should I wait for hunter (of course there is no guarantee I get in lol)
Ps. Thank you for bringing this point up I was thinking hard on this too... but couldn’t make a logical decision what also sucks is that I’m alone I can’t go to like a family member for advice I’m a first generation college student in my family.
Thanks you all

If and only if you're 100% set on medicine, aim for Fordham post-bacc summer admission. A year-long delay means losing one year of physician salary; this far exceeds the difference in CoA between Hunter's and Fordham's post-bacc programs, even when accounting for 10 years of interest on the loans.

On to the question of age: Every year, there are people who start medical school in their 30s and 40s. Whether you're "too old" is up to you. Would you be okay with becoming an independent practicing physician at age 39 or 40? If you're okay with that, then you're not too old. If you'd prefer to start your career earlier, though, then perhaps consider becoming an NP (nurse practitioner) or CRNA (Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist). You'd have less training than a physician, but you'd have more autonomy than an RN. (If we're talking strictly about finances, CRNA is arguably a superior choice to medicine, given your age and the fact that you already have debt.)

 

[ibjudo]

If and only if you're 100% set on medicine, aim for Fordham post-bacc summer admission. A year-long delay means losing one year of physician salary; this far exceeds the difference in CoA between Hunter's and Fordham's post-bacc programs, even when accounting for 10 years of interest on the loans.

On to the question of age: Every year, there are people who start medical school in their 30s and 40s. Whether you're "too old" is up to you. Would you be okay with becoming an independent practicing physician at age 39 or 40? If you're okay with that, then you're not too old. If you'd prefer to start your career earlier, though, then perhaps consider becoming an NP (nurse practitioner) or CRNA (Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist). You'd have less training than a physician, but you'd have more autonomy than an RN. (If we're talking strictly about finances, CRNA is arguably a superior choice to medicine, given your age and the fact that you already have debt.)

I inquired about CRNA and many schools require things like a CCRN (critical care RN) license which doesn't take long to get, plus some ICU experience (which you get after working there ) but to qualify for an ICU position you have to have 2 years or more in medical surgical floor (I only have 1 year ) . You need at least 2 years of experience in an ICU and a bunch of other classes like chemistry organic.inorganic and calculus and other maths just to apply to a CRNA school, and there are very few in NYC (Columbia is one another is a SUNY school), cost is about 50k a year in Columbia and 30k in a SUNY school. Time wise its the same as a basic MD without residency : 2 years med surg 2 years ICU and 2 1/2 years in CRNA School all in all 6 1/2 years and post bacc pre med is 2 years and med school is 4 ! While NP is a great profession I don't really see myself doing it.

On another note :
One of the many reasons why I am considering med school is its hard to explain to my family in Russia what is it that I do... They have these beliefs/misconceptions that a Nurse is someone who just washes floors irons out doctors coat , like a maid/housekeeping. They all come to me for medical advice thinking since I am in medicine that I am a doctor and I keep telling them im not but they still ask me a lot of question about illnesses and what they might be "coming down with" . Thing is I try to do my best but I wasn't trained to diagnose a medical condition I was taught to treat the human response, post diagnosis and pre but I do not have the technical knowledge to make on. And also its like a daily reminder of "what I could have been " if I just worked a bit harder, and been a bit more patient.

 

[curbsideconsult]

a basic MD without residency

^^^ Very key words right here. The difference with CRNA training is that you get paid quite handsomely for 4 of those years and I'm assuming you can work part time during CRNA school. So really you're getting paid for all of those years. You could probably work part time during med school as well considering you have your BSN-RN, but you will not make nearly close to what you would be making if you went the CRNA route. You just won't have the time to do part-time work during med school, at least the first 3 years.

Including residency, your training for med school will be 11+ years if you end up going into any type of surgery or even neurology. Surgery is a minimum of 5 yrs without specializing and neurology is 6 due to IM res + neuro fellowship. And if you want to be an epileptologist, that's another year of training at least (at least from what I remember a neuro doc told us).

Also, how does your family think you're both a nurse who acts like a maid AND think you're a doctor and can dispense medical advice?

 

[Osminog]

On another note :
One of the many reasons why I am considering med school is its hard to explain to my family in Russia what is it that I do... They have these beliefs/misconceptions that a Nurse is someone who just washes floors irons out doctors coat , like a maid/housekeeping. They all come to me for medical advice thinking since I am in medicine that I am a doctor and I keep telling them im not but they still ask me a lot of question about illnesses and what they might be "coming down with" . Thing is I try to do my best but I wasn't trained to diagnose a medical condition I was taught to treat the human response, post diagnosis and pre but I do not have the technical knowledge to make on. And also its like a daily reminder of "what I could have been " if I just worked a bit harder, and been a bit more patient.

That's a really, really bad reason to pursue medicine.

I am quite familiar with Russia's healthcare system. Most doctors in Russia only have undergraduate degrees in medicine, and they are held to much lower academic standards than doctors in the US. And the nurses in Russia have similar training to that of a medical assistant in the US; you received far, far more training with your BSN than an average nurse in Russia, and you have many more responsibilities as a result.

Your family members in Russia are completely unfamiliar with the US healthcare system and the professional roles therein, so you have to accept the fact that they can't accurately judge your accomplishments. Don't go to medical school just to appease them, because becoming a doctor in America is a much bigger sacrifice and accomplishment than your relatives could ever imagine.

 

[ibjudo]

Both of you are right!
@curbsideconsult While you may work during your CRNA Schooling, many schools require that you DO NOT hold a job while in school. They do not provide a stipend or anything either , and if found that you are working part time while you are in CRNA school there maybe severe consequences im not sure which ones but there will be plus your education will be impeded , as CRNA is a very heavy course/education process.
@Osminog thats exactly right! MDs in Russia are held to a much lower standard while there you can get into med school with like a 3 on a 5 point scale (roughly a 65-75 average a 3 in Russia is like "satisfactory " you pass type of thing while a 2 is a fail , 1 is TOTAL fail, 4 is good and 5 is excellent ) in USA one would need 5 (in relation to Russias grading system) .

I do realize that my relatives have no idea what it means to be in medicine here and in Russia honestly I don't feel like im doing it for them but rather for myself. I did nursing for my mom, because she said medical school was tough and I won't survive it but guess what I did nursing! And although I met so many challenges on the path, (due to my health and just basically getting to school which takes 2 hours there and back by train because we couldn't afford a car, and getting to clinicals on Sunday which would take me 3 hours from queens to Brooklyn by train! lol good times) they have made me stronger. I realize that to be a surgeon I will have to sacrifice my social and any kind of life I have in order to save someone else's life. Way back in the day when I was 21 I always thought I would be a type a doctor that really gives a **** about a persons well being and not what insurance they had. I thought I could really make a difference in a persons life, perhaps even save one, one day.

 

[differentiating]

Including residency, your training for med school will be 11+ years if you end up going into any type of surgery or even neurology. Surgery is a minimum of 5 yrs without specializing and neurology is 6 due to IM res + neuro fellowship. And if you want to be an epileptologist, that's another year of training at least (at least from what I remember a neuro doc told us).

Just to avoid spreading misinformation - neurology is a 4 year residency (including an IM intern year), not a fellowship after an IM residency. But yes, epilepsy fellowship would add 1-2 years to that.

That being said, I agree that the OP doesn’t have a strong argument for switching from nursing to medicine currently, so this might be irrelevant.

 

[curbsideconsult]

Just to avoid spreading misinformation - neurology is a 4 year residency (including an IM intern year), not a fellowship after an IM residency. But yes, epilepsy fellowship would add 1-2 years to that.

That being said, I agree that the OP doesn’t have a strong argument for switching from nursing to medicine currently, so this might be irrelevant.

Good to know. Thanks for the correction!

 

[ibjudo]

Just to avoid spreading misinformation - neurology is a 4 year residency (including an IM intern year), not a fellowship after an IM residency. But yes, epilepsy fellowship would add 1-2 years to that.

That being said, I agree that the OP doesn’t have a strong argument for switching from nursing to medicine currently, so this might be irrelevant.

I am actually thinking of applying to hunter college in February 2019, for fall 2019. This will give me ample time to weigh my options, think on my decisions, read some books about medical school and more. Now that I was able to see things more clearly.
I want to thank you guys for making me "brainstorm" on my decisions, because this is a truly life changing decision which will take away a lot of my resources and time so I must proceed with caution .

Becoming a CRNA does sound good and they do make a lot of money, but cardiothoracic surgery has been my goal since I was a kid, its one of those dreams that I had. But since I ended up in nursing I don't know if I need to make the switch, but rather go and further my education with masters and then do CRNA.
thank you all

 

[Osminog]

I am actually thinking of applying to hunter college in February 2019, for fall 2019. This will give me ample time to weigh my options, think on my decisions, read some books about medical school and more. Now that I was able to see things more clearly.
I want to thank you guys for making me "brainstorm" on my decisions, because this is a truly life changing decision which will take away a lot of my resources and time so I must proceed with caution .

Becoming a CRNA does sound good and they do make a lot of money, but cardiothoracic surgery has been my goal since I was a kid, its one of those dreams that I had. But since I ended up in nursing I don't know if I need to make the switch, but rather go and further my education with masters and then do CRNA.
thank you all

If everything were to go perfectly from here on out, you'd be around 40 by the time you're a cardiothoracic surgeon (4 years of medical school + 6-8 years of surgical training). Keep in mind that cardiothoracic surgery is one of the most competitive specialties (less competitive than plastics, but more competitive than vascular) and requires top-notch performance in medical school and on board exams.

Even if you were able to pull it off, would you want to spend your mid- and late 30s getting paid $65K/year and working 80-100 hour weeks around operating tables, all while carrying an ever-growing $400K in debt? Do you want to start a family before you hit 40? Do you want to have a work-life balance before you hit 40? Do you want to stay in the Northeast, or are you prepared to apply to a residency programs across the country (even in Kentucky) in order to match in an ultra-competitive specialty?

You have a lot of thinking to do. CRNA sounds like a very appealing option. Best of luck.

 

[TR Grant]

Hello,
I am actually in a very similar situation to you. I am a 25 y.o RN with four years of experience. I am graduating this May with a BS in biomedical science and minor in chemistry, and am applying in early summer. I also already obtained my nursing bachelor's. My aspirations are to end up in cardiothoacic surgery, and to hopefully attend Columbia for medical school.
In my opinion, it shouldn't matter where you complete your post bacc. I actually went back to my local state school (State University of New York at Plattsburgh) and took classes that way. It took a little longer (about 2.5 years), but I saved a ton without private school tuition, and I was able to work part-time as an RN to pay off debt, and gather experience on a cardiac critical care foor. I would highly recommend looking into this option as some post bacc programs are pretty intense, and may not allow for you to continue working.
But definitely be proud of your accomplishments as an RN. This is valuable experience that sets you apart from other traditional med school applicants. Also, stick with the dream. I too wanted more autonomy, and to be able to perform surgery, which is why I'm not opting for the nurse practitioner or CRNA route.

At any rate, best of luck, and it's nice to see someone in almost the same situation as myself.

Feel free to reach out with any further questions!

Regards,
TG

 

[ibjudo]

To those that responded !
Thank you for your advice , I’m considering Neurology instead of surgery.. and I’ve completely accepted the fact that it will take 10 years or so.
I want to be happy , and not regret the road not taken.