RN to DO/MD

[PeaKoi20]

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So, this is my first time posting. I've been reading various posts and threads the past few days/weeks, and decided it might be better for me to just go ahead and post.

A little about me, I'm an RN, I've worked in High Risk Perinatal, and currently working on a Mother/Baby unit, and I'm also a certified lactation consultant. I am married, and have 2 young children, ages 6 and 2. At this point in my life I'm craving more education. I realize I could go the DNP/PhD route, but I'm also considering going the DO/MD route.

My question is, is it worth it? Is it worth the extra time and cost? If I did a DNP program, I could do it online, and my family could stay where we are, husband would keep his job, etc. If I went to med school, my whole family would be moving with me, husband would need to find a new job. However, he is completely supportive of doing that. Sacrifices for gains in the end.

Talking to some of my friends in other medical professions, they are lamenting that the cost of school/loans, vs what they are making now, and the time invested, has not turned out to be worth it for them, which is pretty discouraging to hear.

I'd love to hear your opinions and advice if you've gone/are going to med school, or your DNP, what your experience has been like and if you would've have chosen differently in hindsight.

 

[Idioventricular]

Considering you have already been weighing the financial/home life burden, the real question is, would you be satisfied in practicing the nursing model or will you be regretting not pursuing the medical.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

No, I don't think it's worth it. Medicine is a large sacrifice, and you will lose a huge chunk of the years of your children growing up. You'll also bring upon yourself a heavy financial burden. That said, you're an RN and by now should know the difference between an MD and a DNP and which role is sufficient for your happiness and financial stability.

 

[jl lin]

Depends upon how much you want to be a physician and want to practice medicine. If you really want it, then it might be worth it. It just depends.
If you do it primarily for some "financial advantage," well, then it probably won't be worth it.

 

[Goro]

What does your heart tell you?

So, this is my first time posting. I've been reading various posts and threads the past few days/weeks, and decided it might be better for me to just go ahead and post.

A little about me, I'm an RN, I've worked in High Risk Perinatal, and currently working on a Mother/Baby unit, and I'm also a certified lactation consultant. I am married, and have 2 young children, ages 6 and 2. At this point in my life I'm craving more education. I realize I could go the DNP/PhD route, but I'm also considering going the DO/MD route.

My question is, is it worth it? Is it worth the extra time and cost? If I did a DNP program, I could do it online, and my family could stay where we are, husband would keep his job, etc. If I went to med school, my whole family would be moving with me, husband would need to find a new job. However, he is completely supportive of doing that. Sacrifices for gains in the end.

Talking to some of my friends in other medical professions, they are lamenting that the cost of school/loans, vs what they are making now, and the time invested, has not turned out to be worth it for them, which is pretty discouraging to hear.

I'd love to hear your opinions and advice if you've gone/are going to med school, or your DNP, what your experience has been like and if you would've have chosen differently in hindsight.

 

[PeaKoi20]

If time and money were of no consequence, I'd go for physician, b/c honestly I love to learn. I want to be able to provide patients with the highest level of expertise that I am capable of, and physician training provides that extra bit of knowledge and experience. I know that an NP can also work in the PCP role, but the fact that the school/training is much less than a physician is both a pro and a con. Pro as far as time and money obviously, but con in the lack of depth in knowledge and experience. The roles/autonomy of an NP vs a physician actually don't bother me, I'm not trying to be a physician just so I can be in charge, or for the money. I rarely do anything for purely financial gain. I'm not afraid of hard work, or sacrifice, as it pertains to myself. But as I mentioned, I have children and a husband to think about. Although, my husband is 200% supportive of me pursuing any goal I desire, and he feels we could make it work. I'm currently 32, and probably by the time I enter med school, I'd be 35 (need to get a few pre-reqs done), so we're looking early to mid 40's by the time I'm done with residency.

I've read a few positive articles/blogs of women going through med school with families, and it is inspiring. But I know it's also easy to romanticize an idea. And then I hear the flip side of people wishing they hadn't gone through medical school, despite the fact that they love their profession, they are drowning financially. But... they're also single. I have the benefit of a spouse that makes decent money (husband works in digital forensics).

Sorry if I'm rambling. Worked night shift last night, and didn't really sleep. Trying to be coherent with a migraine.

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

... If I did a DNP program, I could do it online...

Research this assumption carefully. As far as I'm aware (and I could be wrong) the only online DNP programs are for people who are already licensed nurse practitioners (or CNS, CNM, or CRNA). The online DNP is to advance their training from the MN/MSN level to the DNP level.

But as far as I'm aware, you can't go from RN/BSN to DNP on a purely online program. That doesn't sound safe either... you have to learn a lot more physical diagnosis that requires real-life experiences!

If you're considering any nurse practitioner program you should also research whether they arrange your clinical rotations, or whether they make you figure them out for yourself. I've heard of some programs that don't figure it out for you, which means you're stuck with sub-optimal training sites.

 

[Nxtjourney2MD]

I advise you to go full speed ahead and get the MD or DO done while your children are young.... I have a 13 year old....she was 2 when i first contemplated med school. But i settled in to working as a RT "for her sake" i was wrong. I would be done by now and more available to my family if i started then. Please get it over with ASap

 

[PeaKoi20]

[QUOTE="hopefuldoc97239, post: 16279525, member: 361884

But as far as I'm aware, you can't go from RN/BSN to DNP on a purely online program. That doesn't sound safe either... you have to learn a lot more physical diagnosis that requires real-life experiences.[/QUOTE]

Actually it's not an assumption. I've looked at many schools and programs, and because the ANA is requiring all NP's to be at the doctorate level, technically starting this year in 2015, many schools have more or less phased out the MSN programs. What is largely offered is online/hybrid format programs for BSN to DNP or PhD. When I say hybrid, it's really mostly all online and then maybe 1-3 on site attendances a semester, the number of which depend on your school and your specialty. I actually would prefer a brick and mortar school to attend, but there are very few programs offering that for DNP. UCA SF is one school that has classes every other weekend, but really that's one of the only programs I've seen that offers campus classes regularly for the DNP.

ETA: you still have clinicals, so I suppose you could say that portion isn't online.

 

[PeaKoi20]

I advise you to go full speed ahead and get the MD or DO done while your children are young.... I have a 13 year old....she was 2 when i first contemplated med school. But i settled in to working as a RT "for her sake" i was wrong. I would be done by now and more available to my family if i started then. Please get it over with ASap

How far along are you in your journey to MD? By the time I've got my pre-reqs done, I'll probably be applying for 2017 or 2018. My oldest will be 8/9 and my youngest will be 4/5. How has it been balancing family and school?

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

...When I say hybrid, it's really mostly all online and then maybe 1-3 on site attendances a semester, the number of which depend on your school and your specialty. I actually would prefer a brick and mortar school to attend, but there are very few programs offering that for DNP. UCA SF is one school that has classes every other weekend, but really that's one of the only programs I've seen that offers campus classes regularly for the DNP.

The main work of physicians and advance practice nurses is done face-to-face with patients. That is why the vast majority of physician training is done face-to-face in hospitals. I don't care if you want to be an NP, DO, or MD, but whatever you do I'd look for the program that has the most clinical training time. In my experience, new nurse practitioners are moderately likely to feel under-prepared when they start their first unsupervised job. In contrast, physicians newly out of residency rarely feel underprepared.

 

[jl lin]

[QUOTE="hopefuldoc97239, post: 16279525, member: 361884

But as far as I'm aware, you can't go from RN/BSN to DNP on a purely online program. That doesn't sound safe either... you have to learn a lot more physical diagnosis that requires real-life experiences.

Actually it's not an assumption. I've looked at many schools and programs, and because the ANA is requiring all NP's to be at the doctorate level, technically starting this year in 2015, many schools have more or less phased out the MSN programs. What is largely offered is online/hybrid format programs for BSN to DNP or PhD. When I say hybrid, it's really mostly all online and then maybe 1-3 on site attendances a semester, the number of which depend on your school and your specialty. I actually would prefer a brick and mortar school to attend, but there are very few programs offering that for DNP. UCA SF is one school that has classes every other weekend, but really that's one of the only programs I've seen that offers campus classes regularly for the DNP.

ETA: you still have clinicals, so I suppose you could say that portion isn't online.

NO. It doesn't work that way. There is always some degree of clinical/practicum beyond any didactic, even if much of the didactic is done online in real time. It's a misnomer to think any kind of nursing program of study is ALL online. I don't care what the program is. NLN will always require clinical time. It would be insane to have any nurse TOUCH a patient with the required level of clinical/practicum hours and passing them.

So, if you are not a nurse already--that is, having gone through an intensive two-year program or a 3 year hospital-based program, which MUST include both class didactic and clinical/practicum, the program is not NLN accredited and you will not be able to proceed in any advanced nursing degree without it and without state board exam/licensure. And even thereafter an RN to BSN or RN to MSN or up will still require clinical/practicum time/hours.

You canNOT move forward in a clinical-based field without actual clinical/practicum hours--and the foundation of which is determined by NLN as well as state. In fact, you cannot sit before the NCLEX for nursing licensure w/o passing clinical rotations. Any program that tells you otherwise is bogus and a waste of your money and time.

 

[Rosewood1225]

Hi, PeaKoi20. I am also a RN, and have my MSN. My Bachelor's in a non-nursing field. I'm not an APN, but I have also contemplated the NP and physician routes. Our backgrounds are a bit different in that I am not married and do not have children. The NP route is attractive in terms of financial sacrifice, time, and work-life balance. However, I know myself and I believe that if I do not pursue the medical route, I would regret it. You have to reflect on where your passion lies. You previously stated that if time and money were not issues for you, you would pursue medicine. I think that statement is very telling about what you desire. It is very fortunate that your husband is supportive, and I feel that if he will give you support and encouragement regardless of the path you take, you should take the journey that would lead you to the role where you are happiest. If medicine is what you truly want, go for it and do not hesitate. 🙂

 

[Darth Doc]

If time and money were of no consequence, I'd go for physician, b/c honestly I love to learn. I want to be able to provide patients with the highest level of expertise that I am capable of, and physician training provides that extra bit of knowledge and experience. ... I have children and a husband to think about. Although, my husband is 200% supportive of me pursuing any goal I desire, and he feels we could make it work. I'm currently 32, and probably by the time I enter med school, I'd be 35 (need to get a few pre-reqs done), so we're looking early to mid 40's by the time I'm done with residency.

With a supportive husband, you can definitely make medical school work. I have kids ages 8-16. I was a physician assistant, but decided to go back for more knowledge. I'm only in my first year, but it's working out fine for the kids. This is stressful most of the time, but it isn't impossible. My life is very scheduled, and I have to keep reminding myself that I do the best I can within my time constraints. We're making it work, and I LOVE being back in school. I started a little later age-wise than you will be, so don't let your age intimidate you. I've heard that DO schools are really supportive of students with families. I don't know what that means specifically since I'm in a MD program, but it's something to consider. My school is supportive, but there aren't a lot of true non-trads. We've formed our own support system that works well for us.

My husband is also currently working on an online FNP program. I must say, it's a piece of cake. I don't think he's actually learning anything. If you want to learn something, go to medical school. There's a good chance you won't be more competent after a FNP program, just able to prescribe and treat. It doesn't sound like that's what you want.

 

[Mad Jack]

NO. It doesn't work that way. There is always some degree of clinical/practicum beyond any didactic, even if much of the didactic is done online in real time. It's a misnomer to think any kind of nursing program of study is ALL online. I don't care what the program is. NLN will always require clinical time. It would be insane to have any nurse TOUCH a patient with the required level of clinical/practicum hours and passing them.

So, if you are not a nurse already--that is, having gone through an intensive two-year program or a 3 year hospital-based program, which MUST include both class didactic and clinical/practicum, the program is not NLN accredited and you will not be able to proceed in any advanced nursing degree without it and without state board exam/licensure. And even thereafter an RN to BSN or RN to MSN or up will still require clinical/practicum time/hours.

You canNOT move forward in a clinical-based field without actual clinical/practicum hours--and the foundation of which is determined by NLN as well as state. In fact, you cannot sit before the NCLEX for nursing licensure w/o passing clinical rotations. Any program that tells you otherwise is bogus and a waste of your money and time.

The DNP only requires 650 hours of clinical practicum, last I checked. Given that most online degrees take 3-4 years, that amounts to a fairly negligible 200ish hours per year of practicum required, or about one eight hour and one ten hour shift power month. That's nothing, and pretty easy to fit in with a normal life. A lot of the online DNP nurses at my job would actually do comically through our hospital and just do am 8 hour shift of practicum training after their regular 8 hour work shift a couple times a week to fulfill their practicum requirements.

 

[jl lin]

The DNP only requires 650 hours of clinical practicum, last I checked. Given that most online degrees take 3-4 years, that amounts to a fairly negligible 200ish hours per year of practicum required, or about one eight hour and one ten hour shift power month. That's nothing, and pretty easy to fit in with a normal life. A lot of the online DNP nurses at my job would actually do comically through our hospital and just do am 8 hour shift of practicum training after their regular 8 hour work shift a couple times a week to fulfill their practicum requirements.

I'm saying no reputable program allows moving forward into an advanced practice program w/o the core nursing clinical hours. They'd never make it to NCLEX. Now after that, there are some programs that are shameful in taking nurses w minimal clinical practice hours, post NS graduation, into their programs. Money-grubbing programs. And certainly even the better programs will not give the same post-graduate, supervised training as med school post grads. No question about this.

 

[Mad Jack]

I'm saying no reputable program allows moving forward into an advanced practice program w/o the core nursing clinical hours. They'd never make it to NCLEX. Now after that, there are some programs that are shameful in taking nurses w minimal clinical practice hours, post NS graduation, into their programs. Money-grubbing programs. And certainly even the better programs will not give the same post-graduate, supervised training as med school post grads. No question about this.

Their post was in reference to BSN to DNP programs, not direct entry DNP programs. No one can become a nurse without the 1,100ish clinical hours required of a BSN.

 

[jl lin]

Yes but some career changers have thought otherwise and some people are tempted to believe such things. Even all online never really means ALl online for RN to BSN or RN to MS or to NP or Doctoral. They all will require actual offline clinical and some other offline hoops through which to jump. Obviously NP and certainly CRNA require more clinically supervised hours. CRNA even more. None will be as thorough as post-grad ME programs, nor as grueling.