Rochester, Einstein, or Pitt?

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by megaman, Mar 21, 2002.

  1. megaman

    megaman Junior Member
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    Just wondering what you guys think... Location wise, I would much rather be close to NYC (I have family there)... so do you guys think the programs at Rochester or Pitt are significantly better or different that I should consider going there? (I was told that since none of these are "a top ten school," I should just pick one based on location and overall quality of life... cuz it really won't matter...)

    Please please share your input!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
    thank you so much!!!
     
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  3. johnM

    johnM Senior Member
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    it's obviously between rochester and einstein, and if you really can't decide for yourself which location you like better, then I'm a little worried about you. Einstein is in the middle of the bronx, while rochester is in the middle of nowhere. rochester is painfully cold in the winter, to the point that the school has underground tunnels connecting buildings and students don't even have to be outside in the real world for days and weeks at a time. I think it's kinda cool, but I know that I'd be going to Einstein if I were you.
     
  4. The Fly

    The Fly Senior Member
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    Geez, I completely disagree...respectfully, of course...

    I actually thought that U of R had an extremely well designed and very interesting curriculum--to the extent that my interview left me with a far better impression of that place as compared to most other schools (Pitt/Einstein included).

    And as far as proximity to NYC is concerned--Einstein IS in NYC, it's just not in Manhattan. Rochester is not that much closer than Pittsburgh and i'd say both cities are similar in size, although the latter is probably larger. Both are cold--remember that Rochester as one of the lakes right near it, which makes it warmer (relatively, of course) than you might otherwise think.

    I don't think I'll end up at U of R, but I thought it was an amazing place and everybody there was super-nice and seemed relatively stress-free.

    Good luck megaman! :)
     
  5. megaman

    megaman Junior Member
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    thanks for the quick responses!

    location wise, I do prefer Einstein since I have family there... I guess what I am unsure about is whether that is enough to warrant me overlooking Pitt or Rochester. I definitely agree that Rochester has one of the most innovative curriculums, while Pitt's program seems to be a bit stronger (yes, i am sorry to say i am basing that on USnews and also from students that go there).

    so, do you guys think it really matters in terms of getting my $$$'s worth which school i go to??? how about reputation for residencies?

    thanks again for your input!!!
     
  6. inanna

    inanna Member
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    When making this decision, you might want to consider the amount of $$$ Einstein invests in their students (paying for them to participate in overseas programs, etc.)

    And, hey, no Friday afternoon classes at Einstein, either...sometimes it's the little things that count!

    Good luck with the decision, let us know what you decide and what factor(s) swung the vote.
     
  7. locitamd

    locitamd Senior Member
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by inanna:
    <strong>
    And, hey, no Friday afternoon classes at Einstein, either...sometimes it's the little things that count!
    </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No Friday afternoon classes also means that the library is not open on Saturdays...
     
  8. The Fly

    The Fly Senior Member
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    Um...can we discuss how pork products should not factor into your decision on where to matriculate!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> :D
     
  9. nyskindr

    nyskindr Senior Member
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    As far as residency matches goes there is no significant difference between these schools.I have seen Einsteins and Pitts match list and they are both comparable and very good,I doubt Rochester would be radically different.
     
  10. trout

    trout Senior Member
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    I have to admit I loved rochester...I thought the facilities were great, the curriculum is a true pbl(unlike einstein who says they have cbl and the students don't even know what it is). Living in rochester is significantly cheaper than nyc. I also was surprised at how hard it was to get to manhatten from einstein (over an hour ouch!!!)and the express buses don't run all night. However, you can get a parking spot if you live in the dorms...I really liked the students I stayed with at rochester they seemed like a very cohesive class....I didn't get that feeling at einstein...All said and done either school is a great choice and you won't go wrong...
     
  11. Trek

    Trek Grand Uranium Member
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    YOU GOTTA GO WITH PITT!!! I'm a huge fan. They've got the curicullum down cold, very sweet clinical stuff with lots of opps and research coming out of the rear (if you're into that). Most importantly, EVERY student i met (and i stayed with 9 hosts) absolutely loved the school. As did i. Forget what USNews and people who know nothing about these schools say- call up some students and ask. I think you'll find that Pitt trumps the rest. --Trek
     
  12. agent cooper

    agent cooper Junior Member
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    In response to Accept_me's qualms with the fact that the Einstein cafeteria serves no bacon, I would like to add that they dole out the best damn pastrami on rye you'll find at any cafeteria...hands down! Who cares about the bacon when you got that! Don't expect that kinda sandwich at Pitt or U of R. :cool:
     
  13. rebelins

    rebelins Junior Member
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    OK, I usually don't post too much here, but this one is a big subject for me. I interviewed at all three schools and am pretty much deciding between Pitt and Einstein. I think your big decision is how important it is to be close to your family. (if its crucial than Einstein would be the choice) In terms of my evaluation of the schools,
    I'll probably end up going to Pitt over the other two. All three curriculums are somewhat similar in that there is little class time and P/F or H/P/F. However, Pitt's student seemed the most genuinely content about their school. Also, the school is relatively $$$ rich due to all their NIH funding. I thought Pitt and Rochester's facilities were both good, but I wasn't impressed with Einsteins. Pitt's area of concentrations are very appealing to me, since I'm interested in serving the underserved community. And lastly, Pittsburgh was a nicer city than I thought; not quite as bitter cold as Rochester. Hope this helps.
     
  14. Drako

    Drako Senior Member
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    I will put in a vote for PittMed (you guys ought to start calling it PittMed). The reasons have already been stated above.
     
  15. Jonny-5

    Jonny-5 Member
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    PittMed! PittMed!
     
  16. megaman

    megaman Junior Member
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    in terms of $$$, I don't get it... I've been told that Einstein spends a lot of money on their students... but their facilities don't seem to reflect that... where is all that money being spent??? do they fund student projects that other schools wouldn't??? anybody have any ideas??? :rolleyes:

    thanks again for the posts!!!
     
  17. Trek

    Trek Grand Uranium Member
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    Dr. Kermit is the woman to talk to about Einstein. I hear they do fund a lot of things- housing/board for degrees elsewhere, etc, that you wouldn't see at an interview. I think when DK chimes it, she'll give you a very good point of view about einstein. I loved the school but compared to my state school (same with pitt although i liked pitt more) i couldn't justify the expense. --Trek
     
  18. Dr. Kermit

    Dr. Kermit Senior Member
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    Thanks Trek for the shout out! I'm pretty flattered. I can't remember who the OP is I'm sorry! But, I'm from Pittsburgh, so I know about the area around here, but I'm going to the Bronx this fall!

    I loved Einstein. I can't say that I wouldn't have jumped at the opportunity to be in NYC at maybe Sinai or NYU, but I didn't apply to Columbia since I didn't want to be in Harlem.

    I really liked the curriculum at Einstein. It's straight up P/F first year. They add Honors second year and the clinical years are H/HP/P/LP/F with narratives. You'll start clinical training your first year with a shadowing of a preceptor. In addition, their second year is organ based, not subject. The clinical years there are uncomparable. You have Jacobi which is the public hospital in the Bronx and then their 8 other affiliates. If you're interested in staying in NYC for your residency, Einstein trains 40% of the NYC residents.

    Their funding isn't necessarily through their buildings but what they do for students. They subsidize your housing. Where else can you stay in NYC (I'm sorry, even if it is the Bronx) for $250-500/month. Also, parking in the garage is $65/month. Then they subsidize your local food delivery since the area isn't that great by contracting with vendors for free delivery. Okay, that's the student life aspect. They also have a lot of money for you to travel abroad or do summer research/projects. You won't need to worry about how you're going to pay to go abroad if you want to study or go there for a summer. That is how Einstein funds their students. They don't look into the nitty gritty of things. But, they have upgraded all of their classrooms with internet access and will also be renovating the classrooms this year.

    Um, there are a few other perks. There is an Orthodox influence and there are many long weekends for both Christian and Jewish holidays. You'll be out of class by 2pm on Fridays during Eastern Standard time and probably 4pm during Daylight Savings. Also, Einstein has the fewest number of classes. On average the days, are 9:30-3:30 with an hour or two break for lunch. The total number of hours is only 18-20/week.

    Housing is cheap and the students I talked to were great. I've met with my "Auntie Alberta" and she's been very helpful. Also, my fourth year friend and an attending in my building have talked to me. My interviewer has also peeped a few words here and there!

    There are drawbacks to the school. The area is a bit dismal, but you can access NYC. There is no bookstore, but they have private contractors who come in and there is something else that I can't think of right now...

    I'm from Pittsburgh, so you can feel free to ask me about the area and what I know about the school. But, I wanted to give my little Einstein spihl. I'm getting tired of typing it everytime, how do I put the thread into a message? Anyone!

    Good luck with your decision :)
     
  19. souljah1

    souljah1 Attending
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    I knew it wouldn't be long before Dr.Kermit dropped some knowledge on this thread. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
     
  20. megaman

    megaman Junior Member
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    thanks for taking the time to post everyone!!!

    One other thing, though... I am very interested in academic medicine... do you guys think UPitt (or PittMED <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ) will give me a significant advantage? or are all these schools pretty much in the same range in terms of reputation and research?

    Dr. Kermit (thanks again for the post!), does Einstein allot more $$ to students than other schools? cuz I know that every school I interviewed at, they tell me they fund student projects... just trying to get a sense of how you can tell whether some schools are MORE supportive than others! also, is Einstein in any financial trouble like the other NY schools??? thanks!!! you're the best!!!
     
  21. yunfat

    yunfat Senior Member
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    heh, no Einstein thread is fully alive until Dr. Kermit appears! :p

    I know what you mean... every school says the same thing about supporting students...hard to tell who spends more $$$ percentage-wise on students... i guess you would want to know how strict they are with school-based grants/fellowships... but since they are renovating the classrooms, maybe it is a good sign??? Dr. Kermit, are those classrooms going to be ready sometime this academic year??? How are the clinical training sites??? I've only seen Beth Israel in Manhattan... so I wonder if the Bronx locations are run-down or not...

    in terms of reputation, i think all three schools are all comparable... but Einstein and Pitt seems to have a bit more research going on than Rochester (in terms of funding)... I think Pitt's program might be a bit stronger, but not enough to ignore your location preference... When I visited Einstein, it was only 30 minutes by express bus to Manhattan, and 20 or so if you drive...
     
  22. trout

    trout Senior Member
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    Actually both urochester and einstein fund an enormous number of opportunities in over seas and research (I would bet upitt does too!)...this is a very minor point as you go up in the rankings and the schools have signficantly more money...the answer to your other question about academics and academic medicine can probaly be found on the usnews rankings for academic reputation....

    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by megaman:
    <strong>thanks for taking the time to post everyone!!!

    One other thing, though... I am very interested in academic medicine... do you guys think UPitt (or PittMED <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ) will give me a significant advantage? or are all these schools pretty much in the same range in terms of reputation and research?

    Dr. Kermit (thanks again for the post!), does Einstein allot more $$ to students than other schools? cuz I know that every school I interviewed at, they tell me they fund student projects... just trying to get a sense of how you can tell whether some schools are MORE supportive than others! also, is Einstein in any financial trouble like the other NY schools??? thanks!!! you're the best!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
     
  23. Dr. Kermit

    Dr. Kermit Senior Member
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by yunfat:
    <strong>heh, no Einstein thread is fully alive until Dr. Kermit appears! :p

    I know what you mean... every school says the same thing about supporting students...hard to tell who spends more $$$ percentage-wise on students... i guess you would want to know how strict they are with school-based grants/fellowships... but since they are renovating the classrooms, maybe it is a good sign??? Dr. Kermit, are those classrooms going to be ready sometime this academic year??? How are the clinical training sites??? I've only seen Beth Israel in Manhattan... so I wonder if the Bronx locations are run-down or not...

    in terms of reputation, i think all three schools are all comparable... but Einstein and Pitt seems to have a bit more research going on than Rochester (in terms of funding)... I think Pitt's program might be a bit stronger, but not enough to ignore your location preference... When I visited Einstein, it was only 30 minutes by express bus to Manhattan, and 20 or so if you drive...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He he, I didn't know I was so highly recognized on SDN! I'm not quite sure about the funding %s for Einstein compared to other schools. I do know that when I inquired about abroad opportunities at other schools, while they did say it was possible, the students generally told me funding was hard and limited. Not necessarily at Pitt, AE, and Rochester, but in general. When I speak of funding, the students I talked to said that they didn't have trouble finding things they wanted to do for the summer because AE gave them the appropriate summer stipends. So, they didn't have to worry about having enough money for the summer or taking a job they didn't want for more money.

    And Pitt's research is by far stronger. I'm still interested in research, but not so much to drive me to a heavily funded research school like Pitt. But, my department there is the 4th highest receiving grants from the NIH for the 2001 fiscal year. Other departments rank 3-10th this year. The med school itself was something like 15th.

    As for the classrooms, they are going to redo the seating in the first year classroom at the end of 2003. They are also renovating a lot of the office space around AE. The hospitals, from what I saw at Montefiore and Jacobi, aren't too shabby. I think the buildings are less appealing than most schools b/c they are fine and would rather not waste money making something look fancy and use the money for better purposes.

    Alright, I've done my job selling the school. I wonder if I can write the admissions office and show them how much propaganda I spread for their school!
     
  24. yunfat

    yunfat Senior Member
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    yes, Dr. Kermit, they should be paying you by the post!!! :D

    trout, is that what the academic reputation is? I always thought it was how strong residency directors thought of the school's academics (as in coursework, etc. vs. clinical experience)...

    so what exactly does "reputation score by academics" measure or mean??? how does that relate to academic medicine? sorry i am not getting this! :confused: :)
     
  25. yunfat

    yunfat Senior Member
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Dr. Kermit:

    But, my department there is the 4th highest receiving grants from the NIH for the 2001 fiscal year. Other departments rank 3-10th this year. The med school itself was something like 15th.

    [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">are you still talking about Pitt here or Einstein?
    What department are you in Dr. Kermit?
     
  26. Dr. Kermit

    Dr. Kermit Senior Member
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by yunfat:
    <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Dr. Kermit:

    But, my department there is the 4th highest receiving grants from the NIH for the 2001 fiscal year. Other departments rank 3-10th this year. The med school itself was something like 15th.

    </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">are you still talking about Pitt here or Einstein?
    What department are you in Dr. Kermit?[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry Yunfat, I'm usually not up that late, so I realize my post is a little incoherent. I'm from Pittsburgh and work for Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh, a UPMC affiliate. So, those numbers are for the pediatric department at UPitt!

    And yeah, where's my commission Einstein?!? Where are you leaning at this point yunfat?
     
  27. souljah1

    souljah1 Attending
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    Dr.Kermit is actually an undercover recruiter for aecom posing as an accepted applicant in order to lure naive minds to the bronx. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
     
  28. Dr. Kermit

    Dr. Kermit Senior Member
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    Actually, I'm going to UCSF souljah. I just haven't had the heart to tell you yet, until now that is!
     
  29. trout

    trout Senior Member
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    They explain how they calculate these numbers look on the usnews page....I pulled this from it:

    Two kinds of surveys were conducted in the fall of 2000. Medical school deans and senior faculty were asked to rate program quality on a scale of "marginal" (1) to "distinguished" (5).

    and this was pulled off FAQ:

    You can see how deans rate the schools in terms of academic reputation, which may matter to recruiters.

    It relates to academic medicine because wanting to eventually teach and be on the faculty, if you ever notice many times the schools list where everyone went to medical school. Also, I am going to get jumped on for saying this but a school has a better academic reputation probably because it is thought to teach and train their students to a CONSISTENT higher level (obviously not everyone!!!). Lastly, you should look to see where the alumni end up--private practice or academics....and lastly I hate to say this but from the experiences of friends who have gone through the match, politics and connections mean way more than they should.....

    the second one about residencies I believe is done by the residency directors.....

    After looking at all those numbers I think I would even have to go with Pitt...AE has a one of the lowest residency reputation (sorry dr. kermit)....and as much as I loved rochester it just doesn't stand up :(

    and one more last thing....(I was looking at some of the suny match list over the weekend and was kinda disgusted about this--wonder how many other schools were doing this) when people look at match list just because it says "harvard hospital system" it doesn't mean it was one of the big 3 (MGH, BW or even BDI)the supper competitive ones there are like 50 hospitals under that system it could mean any of the lesser competitive ones...I kinda think this is false advertising

    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by yunfat:
    <strong>yes, Dr. Kermit, they should be paying you by the post!!! :D

    trout, is that what the academic reputation is? I always thought it was how strong residency directors thought of the school's academics (as in coursework, etc. vs. clinical experience)...

    so what exactly does "reputation score by academics" measure or mean??? how does that relate to academic medicine? sorry i am not getting this! :confused: :) </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
     
  30. yunfat

    yunfat Senior Member
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    thanks for the posts, Dr. Kermit and Trout...

    Dr. Kermit, at this point of the game, Einstein is still one of my top choices. Although I do have to admit that 2.9 score for residency reputation is a tremendous eye sore... I just don't get it, with all the clinical training that Einstein does (and all the clinical affiliates it has) how in the world can USNews give it such low ratings?!?!?! :mad: I know you had mentioned that this is partly due to the fact that they can't rank themselves, but if the survey criteria hasn't changed that much in the last couple years, why has Einstein's rating dropped by so much? I know people are going to get on my case for looking at the rankings, but this really is the only measure that the public is aware of... and as Trout and a recent thread I read on SDN seem to suggest, reputation really CAN affect my carreer opportunities in the future...

    having said that, I am still leaning towards Einstein right now... unlike college, I am not looking to start a new phase of my life... I have important relationships with friends and family that I would really like to keep and build on... I am also used to city life, and can't imagine going through four years of med school without it... (that was one of the reasons why I turned down UNC-Chapel Hill and will probably do the same for Vanderbilt... even though I REALLY loved their programs) yes, Pittsburgh is a city, but it's just not the same as NYC (not to mention being away from friends and family)... so, given all this, you can see my frustration. I want my next four years to be much more than med school (hence my preference for Einstein and NY), but I am really concerned that I might be passing up on opportunities that can impact my career down the road...

    I've been talking to a lot of ppl about this... but they all seem to say different things... some people tell me that all three schools are on the same tier (non top 10), and that it really isn't going to make any difference which school I go to... they also tell me how outstanding Einstein's clinical training is and how there would be ample opportunities to interact with underprivledged patients (which is important to me)... but there are also people who keep telling me how Einstein is filled with grumbling students who didn't get into their top choice and that Einstein's reputation is not at Pitt's level and dropping...

    argh!!! <img border="0" alt="[Pissy]" title="" src="graemlins/pissy.gif" /> so frustrating!!! ... I guess I should be glad I still have some time to think about it...

    anyway, sorry for all the babbling... just wanted to let you know where I'm coming from... i am sure there are other peeps out there going through similar things!
     
  31. megaman

    megaman Junior Member
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    man, i feel your pain! I am in the very same shoes!!! wanna be in NY for people and the city, but worried i might regret it later...

    yikes, since I am interested in academic medicine, should I be worried about the 2.9 even more? or should I just look at the academic ranking and be content?

    Dr. Kermit, do you know if Einstein has any financial trouble like the other NY schools? i still think they should spend more money on superficial things like the appearance of the buildings and the stationary!!! (they should have put the Einstein seal on the letter!!! :D :D :D
     
  32. Dr. Kermit

    Dr. Kermit Senior Member
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Dr. Kermit, do you know if Einstein has any financial trouble like the other NY schools? i still think they should spend more money on superficial things like the appearance of the buildings and the stationary!!! (they should have put the Einstein seal on the letter!!!</strong>
     
  33. Legend

    Legend Super Senior Member
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    I interviewed at AECOM about two weeks ago and am still waiting.
    I also don't understand why residency reputation is only 2.9
    I think we should all wait till US NEWS 2002 comes out.
     
  34. Dr. Kermit

    Dr. Kermit Senior Member
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    I e-mailed my interviewer about the residency rating. I'll post her reply when she writes me back.
     
  35. yunfat

    yunfat Senior Member
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    thanks, Dr. Kermit... look forward to the post. :)
     
  36. Dr. Kermit

    Dr. Kermit Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

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    As promised, I e-mailed my interviewer and she e-mailed me back. I essentially asked her about her opinion on USNews Rankings (and their residency reputation), Einstein's financial status, and location. Minus the personal advice she gave me, here was her response:

    I know about the US News ranking list which I believe is based on grant dollars not fiscal stability. I don't know why the grant dollars would have dropped but I will find out for you. The school is quite fiscally stable, that I definitely know.

    The other ranking I don't know about. I do know that Einstein students do well in the residency match and are very well prepared in their history and physical assessment skills. The clinical experience is very broad given the population and high volume of the training centers affiliated with it.

    As for the location is the Bronx.....what can we do?
     
  37. yunfat

    yunfat Senior Member
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    Hey DK, thanks for the post!
    I guess there really isn't any answer as to why the residency reputation score is so low? oh well... :confused: :) maybe it'll go back up this upcoming issue! (yes yes, i know they are not the most important indicator... :p )

    anyway, please do let us know if you hear anything else!

    thanks once again! :)
     

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