Roger Chou and the end of epidurals...

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wow, sensitive, eh?

who said i was talking about you?
as i said, we do not comment about medical care of posters - that blanket statement includes any intellectual fragility.

fyi, :rolleyes:

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:troll:
 
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wow, sensitive, eh?

who said i was talking about you?
as i said, we do not comment about medical care of posters - that blanket statement includes any intellectual fragility.

fyi, :rolleyes:

/( .□.)\ ︵╰(゜益゜)╯︵ /(.□. /)

;)
 
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Uh, okay...maybe steroid injections only produce effect sizes when combined with US guidance...So, combining this and Chou's work the only logical thing to do is to perform ESI's with US-guidance...

More meta-analysis metastasis of GIGO science...


Am J Phys Med Rehabil. 2015 Oct;94(10):775-83. doi: 10.1097/PHM.0000000000000260.
Effectiveness of Ultrasound Guidance on Intraarticular and Periarticular Joint Injections: Systematic Review and Meta-analysis of Randomized Trials.
Huang Z1, Du S, Qi Y, Chen G, Yan W.
Author information
  • 1From the Department of Orthopedic Surgery, the Second Affiliated Hospital, School of Medicine, Zhejiang University, Hangzhou, China.
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
The aim of this study was to evaluate the effectiveness and accuracy of ultrasound-guided intraarticular and periarticular joint injections as compared with landmark-guided injections technique.

METHODS:
A systematic literature search was performed in Medline, Web of Science, Embase, the Cochrane Central Register of Controlled Trials, reference lists of articles, and other sources. Only randomized controlled trials were included. Two reviewers independently selected and assessed each study for quality and extracted data.

RESULTS:
Twelve randomized controlled trials were included in the meta-analysis. The results indicated that ultrasound-guided intraarticular and periarticular joint injections were more accurate than the landmark-guided injections (odds ratio, 0.36; 95% confidence interval, 0.22-0.60). Ultrasound-guided joint injections significantly decreased the visual analog scale scores at both 2 wks (mean difference, -9.57; 95% confidence interval, -13.14 to -5.99) (P < 0.00001) and 6 wks (mean difference, -14.21; 95% confidence interval, -18.20 to -10.21) (P < 0.00001) after injection. There was no statistically significant difference in visual analog scale score at 12 wks between ultrasound-guided and landmark-guided intraarticular and periarticular joint injections (mean difference, -4.42; 95% confidence interval, -11.71 to 2.87) (P = 0.23).

CONCLUSIONS:
Intraarticular and periarticular injections using ultrasound guidance significantly improves the accuracy of joint injections, and there is a significant decrease in visual analog scale scores for up to 6 wks after injection. The effect of ultrasound guidance on the long-term outcome of joint injections is inconclusive. The improved accuracy of injections was associated with pain relief. The authors recommend routine ultrasound guidance for intraarticular and periarticular injections.
 
SIS response to the article.

Dear Editor,
The publication by Chou and colleagues(1) raises significant concerns among physicians treating patients suffering from radicular pain and associated functional impairment. Fourteen medical societies formulated a consensus response to the Agency for Healthcare Quality and Research’s technology assessment, the basis of the current publication, addressing the flawed methodology and resulting aberrant conclusions. (2)

The authors assert the nihilistic position, without evidence, that back and leg pain are un-attributable to a specific cause and, therefore, includestudies with patient selection by symptoms, not diagnosis. Current literature demonstrates that radicular and somatic back pain can be specifically diagnosed with systematic application of diagnostic blocks or provocative procedures, synthesized with clinical examination, advanced imaging and electrophysiology. (3) Their position has led to inclusion of heterogeneous study populations; in 29 studies of “epidural steroid injection” versus placebo, radicular pain alone was specified in 22, a mixture of radicular and back pain in six, and back pain alone in one. Correlative imaging findings were required in only 11 studies, leaving the nature of the compressive lesions and degree of compression unknown. Withliterature demonstrating these factors influence the natural history and efficacy of epidural steroid injections, it is inappropriate to draw conclusions from these heterogeneous studies.

The review is a corruption of evidence-based medicine -- omitting the best available evidence: high quality outcome studies of homogenous patients with contrast confirmation of injectate delivery to the target. Rather, it includes decades-old trials of unguided epidural injections by several routes. Only 7 of the 29 placebo-controlled trials utilized image guidance. Reliance on flawed RCTs leads the authors to conclude there is no evidence supporting the use of image guidance, placing it in conflict with the FDA Safe Use Initiative, which mandates image guidance.

The authors’ conclusions are based on invalid statistical analyses, primarily changes in mean pain scores, which are insufficient for drawing conclusions about effectiveness. ANational Institutes of Health task force recommendedthe utilization of categorical outcomes for studying low back pain.(4)

When inappropriate statistics are applied to review heterogeneous populations given heterogeneous treatments, with equal weight given to outdated procedural techniques, results should be viewed with skepticism.
A comprehensive examination of the literature, including high quality contemporary outcomes studies of homogenous patient populations, reveals that in carefully selected patients, epidural steroid injections performed to exacting procedural standards provide pain relief and functional improvement in patients suffering from radicular pain.(5)
Sincerely,

American Association of Neurological Surgeons
American Academy of Pain Medicine
American Academy of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation
American College of Radiology
American Pain Society
American Society of Anesthesiologists
American Society of Neuroradiology
American Society of Regional Anesthesia and Pain Medicine
American Society of Spine Radiology
Congress of Neurological Surgeons
Spine Intervention Society
North American Neuromodulation Society
North American Spine Society
Society of Interventional Radiology
 
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Chou never Wrong!
 
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Chou gored our oxen:)
 
GIGO chickens coming home to roost. If the science for mental health intervention is this bad for treating depression, then just imagine what it must look like for treating chronic pain? Publicly-supported Academics need to stop "churning" data and start doing real experiments. Time to be accountable to the taxpayer.

http://www.bizjournals.com/portland...-journals-overstate-psychotherapys-power.html


OHSU prof: Journals overstate psychotherapy's power to treat depression


Psychotherapy may not be as effective a way to treat depression as the scientific literature makes it out to be.

So concludes a study published today that's co-authored by an Oregon Health & Science University researcher.
Erick Turner, associate professor of psychiatry and pharmacology at OHSU School of Medicine, said the problem boils down to “publication bias”: Researchers have a tendency to just publish significant and positive results and to withhold those that are negative or inconclusive.

“It’s widespread,” Turner said. “It’s not unique to mental health. In academia, you start out deciding what you want to do, what your hypothesis is and how to collect and analyze the data. It might take a few years, then there’s the drum roll at the end, you crunch numbers and the finding may not be statistically significant.”

A significant finding is viewed as a success. If it's not, researchers often feel “no one will care about this,” Turner said. Sometimes researchers “torture” the data to come up with that significant result, he said.

“They say, ‘Ah, this is publishable,’ and that’s what gets written up,” he said.

In Oregon, an estimated one of every 18 adults suffers from mental illness, Oregon Senate President Peter Courtney told a panel in 2013.

The new study is a follow-up to Turner’s 2008 study that found a similar publication bias in scientific articles reporting on the efficacy of antidepressant drugs.

Turner co-authored the latest study, published in PLOS ONE, with researchers from three other universities, Vanderbilt and two in The Netherlands.

The team looked at all NIH grants awarded to fund clinical trials of depression from 1972 to 2008 and found that 13 of 55, or nearly a quarter, had not published their results. Tuner said both funding agencies and journals should archive the original proposals and raw data from both published and unpublished studies.

The problem for health care providers is they have no idea about the bias.

“They’re considering the evidence with an open mouth, saying this is what peer reviewed literature says, its’ the oracle and not realizing all this stuff goes on behind scenes,” he said. “There should be more skepticism about the published literature. Being more comfortable with uncertainty is the bottom line.”
 
GIGO chickens coming home to roost. If the science for mental health intervention is this bad for treating depression, then just imagine what it must look like for treating chronic pain? Publicly-supported Academics need to stop "churning" data and start doing real experiments. Time to be accountable to the taxpayer.

http://www.bizjournals.com/portland...-journals-overstate-psychotherapys-power.html


OHSU prof: Journals overstate psychotherapy's power to treat depression


Psychotherapy may not be as effective a way to treat depression as the scientific literature makes it out to be.

So concludes a study published today that's co-authored by an Oregon Health & Science University researcher.
Erick Turner, associate professor of psychiatry and pharmacology at OHSU School of Medicine, said the problem boils down to “publication bias”: Researchers have a tendency to just publish significant and positive results and to withhold those that are negative or inconclusive.

“It’s widespread,” Turner said. “It’s not unique to mental health. In academia, you start out deciding what you want to do, what your hypothesis is and how to collect and analyze the data. It might take a few years, then there’s the drum roll at the end, you crunch numbers and the finding may not be statistically significant.”

A significant finding is viewed as a success. If it's not, researchers often feel “no one will care about this,” Turner said. Sometimes researchers “torture” the data to come up with that significant result, he said.

“They say, ‘Ah, this is publishable,’ and that’s what gets written up,” he said.

In Oregon, an estimated one of every 18 adults suffers from mental illness, Oregon Senate President Peter Courtney told a panel in 2013.

The new study is a follow-up to Turner’s 2008 study that found a similar publication bias in scientific articles reporting on the efficacy of antidepressant drugs.

Turner co-authored the latest study, published in PLOS ONE, with researchers from three other universities, Vanderbilt and two in The Netherlands.

The team looked at all NIH grants awarded to fund clinical trials of depression from 1972 to 2008 and found that 13 of 55, or nearly a quarter, had not published their results. Tuner said both funding agencies and journals should archive the original proposals and raw data from both published and unpublished studies.

The problem for health care providers is they have no idea about the bias.

“They’re considering the evidence with an open mouth, saying this is what peer reviewed literature says, its’ the oracle and not realizing all this stuff goes on behind scenes,” he said. “There should be more skepticism about the published literature. Being more comfortable with uncertainty is the bottom line.”

I thought about posting another article on this subject. They pointed out that psych studies and depression medication studies both tended to report 25% more efficacy than substantiated by all research including unpublished trials.
 
GIGO chickens coming home to roost. If the science for mental health intervention is this bad for treating depression, then just imagine what it must look like for treating chronic pain? Publicly-supported Academics need to stop "churning" data and start doing real experiments. Time to be accountable to the taxpayer.

http://www.bizjournals.com/portland...-journals-overstate-psychotherapys-power.html


OHSU prof: Journals overstate psychotherapy's power to treat depression


Psychotherapy may not be as effective a way to treat depression as the scientific literature makes it out to be.

So concludes a study published today that's co-authored by an Oregon Health & Science University researcher.
Erick Turner, associate professor of psychiatry and pharmacology at OHSU School of Medicine, said the problem boils down to “publication bias”: Researchers have a tendency to just publish significant and positive results and to withhold those that are negative or inconclusive.

“It’s widespread,” Turner said. “It’s not unique to mental health. In academia, you start out deciding what you want to do, what your hypothesis is and how to collect and analyze the data. It might take a few years, then there’s the drum roll at the end, you crunch numbers and the finding may not be statistically significant.”

A significant finding is viewed as a success. If it's not, researchers often feel “no one will care about this,” Turner said. Sometimes researchers “torture” the data to come up with that significant result, he said.

“They say, ‘Ah, this is publishable,’ and that’s what gets written up,” he said.

In Oregon, an estimated one of every 18 adults suffers from mental illness, Oregon Senate President Peter Courtney told a panel in 2013.

The new study is a follow-up to Turner’s 2008 study that found a similar publication bias in scientific articles reporting on the efficacy of antidepressant drugs.

Turner co-authored the latest study, published in PLOS ONE, with researchers from three other universities, Vanderbilt and two in The Netherlands.

The team looked at all NIH grants awarded to fund clinical trials of depression from 1972 to 2008 and found that 13 of 55, or nearly a quarter, had not published their results. Tuner said both funding agencies and journals should archive the original proposals and raw data from both published and unpublished studies.

The problem for health care providers is they have no idea about the bias.

“They’re considering the evidence with an open mouth, saying this is what peer reviewed literature says, its’ the oracle and not realizing all this stuff goes on behind scenes,” he said. “There should be more skepticism about the published literature. Being more comfortable with uncertainty is the bottom line.”
If therapy isn't good at treating depression what's the chances it's going to make pain go away, as some on this board suggest it's a panacea for?

What are the chances it is the hidden, undiscovered missing link that will magically and radically alter the course of Pain Management, and eliminate the need for appropriate use of pain medicines and appropriately selected interventions as some suggest it is?
 
If therapy isn't good at treating depression what's the chances it's going to make pain go away, as some on this board suggest it's a panacea for?

What are the chances it is the hidden, undiscovered missing link that will magically and radically alter the course of Pain Management, and eliminate the need for appropriate use of pain medicines and appropriately selected interventions as some suggest it is?
Im not seeing the correlation. Just because a med is marketed for one condition is irrespective if its benefits for another. For example, asa is so so for migraines but pretty darn good post MI. Methadone was initially developed as an antispasmodic. Viagra (antanginal). Minoxidil (antihypertensive). Ritalin (antidepressant). Lithium (gout).

Also, can you really make the claim that pain medicines and injections are really making such significant inroads in chronic pain management that we should be comfortable ignoring other medications?
 
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