ROL woes

[silas2642]

I was just wondering how many other people are struggling to come up with their ROL. I'm pretty sure about my #1, but ranks #2-8 are becoming problematic. The issue for me is that the programs that I have a better "gut feeling" for are in locations that are less preferred than others. I haven't yet figured out how to navigate this issue. Furthermore, I have a SO whose happiness I need to consider as well, but who would likely move with me.

Any advice, particularly from residents who faced similar issues, would be greatly appreciated.

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[siked]

Just put #'s 2 through 8 in alphabetical order, and hope you get into your #1.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

I will reiterate my annual advice: a happy spouse trumps all superficial program issues.

 

[atsai3]

I will reiterate my annual advice: a happy spouse trumps all superficial program issues.

Agreed.

-AT.

 

[notdeadyet]

I will reiterate my annual advice: a happy spouse trumps all superficial program issues.

Amen. Happy wife = happy life.

 

[MDchouette]

Put another way: internship can be a lonely existence. Having a loving, supportive, and happy partner will likely mean tons more to your day-to-day happiness than the small differences between programs 2-8.

 

[Cinnameg]

I will reiterate my annual advice: a happy spouse trumps all superficial program issues.

So, I have a last-minute ROL question: how have you guys managed to make your spouses happy with your ROL? It's a bit of a problem for me. My husband hasn't been able to see any of the places where Im applying since he has had to work and couldn't fly around the country with me for interviews or for second looks. Mostly, he's guessing about what cities he might enjoy based on brief visits to some of them 10 years ago and information available on the internet. Additionally, there is no good way to tell in advance if teaching jobs are going to be available, so I can't even promise him employment where we end up. A larger house might be a good way to make him happy, but that eliminates a lot of excellent programs in larger cities. It is a very real possibility that he will end up miserable in our new location, simply because we can't predict whether he'll like the city or get a job. Any sage marital/ROL advice from people who've been there?

 

[OldPsychDoc]

So, I have a last-minute ROL question: how have you guys managed to make your spouses happy with your ROL? It's a bit of a problem for me. My husband hasn't been able to see any of the places where Im applying since he has had to work and couldn't fly around the country with me for interviews or for second looks. Mostly, he's guessing about what cities he might enjoy based on brief visits to some of them 10 years ago and information available on the internet. Additionally, there is no good way to tell in advance if teaching jobs are going to be available, so I can't even promise him employment where we end up. A larger house might be a good way to make him happy, but that eliminates a lot of excellent programs in larger cities. It is a very real possibility that he will end up miserable in our new location, simply because we can't predict whether he'll like the city or get a job. Any sage marital/ROL advice from people who've been there?

#1--start by asking him what he thinks/wants. Maybe he'll be happy just being with you and in a city with one winning sports team and a good local brew!

My experience--there was only one location (other than home, where we have since returned, btw) where Mrs. PD said "I could live here". I loved the program, and needed to get out of Dodge, so that was where we ranked #1 and ultimately matched. I wanted a different out of town program as #2, but she was very uncomfortable with that city, so we kept the home program #2, and let the others fall in line.

That said, our first year at program #1 was miserable for her--it takes a LOT to uproot a family. We had a great time, in time, and five years later, she was ambivalent about leaving that place to come back here!

 

[notdeadyet]

So, I have a last-minute ROL question: how have you guys managed to make your spouses happy with your ROL? It's a bit of a problem for me. My husband hasn't been able to see any of the places where Im applying since he has had to work and couldn't fly around the country with me for interviews or for second looks.

It's great you're getting his view and taking it with the weight it deserves. As for him making some educated decisions, one site that I think he might find helpful is City-Data.com forum (yes, most dull name ever). Even for cities I visited, I used this site pretty heavily for areas I wasn't that familiar with. My wife has a less-than-portable job and she was able to pull up information about job prospects in each area. You can also find lots of information about neighborhoods and personalities of the place. Much less generic than most google searches.

Any sage marital/ROL advice from people who've been there?

What I tried to do with my wife was have her make her own "rank list." I listed the cities/areas of the 10 programs I'm matching and asked her to put them in her order of preference with no regard to my thoughts of the area or programs. She didn't really play ball, as she kept inserting her knowledge of how much I loved particular programs, but you get the idea.

For what it's worth, I think you're going about it the right way. At the end of the day, all you can do is give your spouse a loud voice and rank accordingly. There is the potential of being miserable or happy in any place you end up, regardless of what you think before you go there. At least having his voice heard, he won't feel bitter about not being involved in the decision.

 

[plickfu]

My problem is that my wife is pretty much fine with wherever I match. Unfortunately, I can't put the tiebreaker for my top two number 1 choices on her because she'd be happy either place. Thanks for nothing, wife!

 

[Mindart]

plickfu, lucky you!

I wish my husband was so open to different options. Because of him I only applied in a small geographic area, and even within the area he is not willing to go to another city even though his job is portable. Where I want to go for my top choice is different from where he wants us to be. What would be the best solution?

 

[Doc Samson]

plickfu, lucky you!

I wish my husband was so open to different options. Because of him I only applied in a small geographic area, and even within the area he is not willing to go to another city even though his job is portable. Where I want to go for my top choice is different from where he wants us to be. What would be the best solution?

Rank the list the way you want, and if you match at your #1, look balefully at your husband and say "I guess our top choice didn't rank me high enough."

 

[Cinnameg]

Rank the list the way you want, and if you match at your #1, look balefully at your husband and say "I guess our top choice didn't rank me high enough."

I think you're probably joking . . .

 

[Cinnameg]

plickfu, lucky you!

I wish my husband was so open to different options. Because of him I only applied in a small geographic area, and even within the area he is not willing to go to another city even though his job is portable. Where I want to go for my top choice is different from where he wants us to be. What would be the best solution?

So, Mindart, I showed your post to my husband, who said, "Ask her who's going to be earning more. And maybe her husband needs to get over himself. Also, she should tell him that working with different groups of people in different cities should be good for his resume and build him new connections that will be valuable to his career later. While change is always scary, there are good reasons in our lives to go through changes, and he should examine the reasons he is wanting to stay and see if it's just fear of change or if it's a financially compelling choice."

I figured my husband, being in a similar situation to your husband, might answer that question better (and he was a little more harsh than I would have been). I'm really lucky that he and I worked this out before we got married: I will be earning more money, and have invested more years of education and suffering into my career, therefore for residency and fellowship he will move for my job. After fellowship, if I become an academic we'll renegotiate, otherwise our plan is to return to the pacific northwest for my first attending job.

I think it's really hard to address your situation without knowing why your husband is so unwilling to move. My first question would be, is it a huge career burden for him to move? A close doctor friend of mine is married to a lawyer, and for her husband it would be a huge burden to re-take the bar exam in another state. My second question would be, is he a traditionalist regarding gender roles? Some men might consider it un-masculine to follow his wife for her career. In the first case, his position might be reasonable, in the second case, you have some long deep conversations you need to have regarding not just residency but future career choices. Of course what's going on could be completely different. It matters what he wants, but more than that it matters WHY he wants it.

 

[Doc Samson]

I think you're probably joking . . .

Probably.

 

[Mindart]

Thanks Doc Samson and Cinnameg!

Cinnameg, I hope you become my co-resident because you are so great!
did you manage to work out your #1 with your husband yet?

 

[Cinnameg]

Thanks Doc Samson and Cinnameg!

Cinnameg, I hope you become my co-resident because you are so great!
did you manage to work out your #1 with your husband yet?

Yes, and tonight I got a call from the PD of that program . . . at 8pm west coast time, so he was calling at 11pm his time. Needless to say I'm encouraged.

How about you? What are you going to do regarding husband vs. residency top choice?

 

[plickfu]

Yes, and tonight I got a call from the PD of that program . . . at 8pm west coast time, so he was calling at 11pm his time. Needless to say I'm encouraged.

How about you? What are you going to do regarding husband vs. residency top choice?

Wow, talk about crunch time.

 

[Mindart]

Cinnameg,

this is good news! Seems you want to come to the east coast!

I decided to consider my husband's preference when deciding #3 through 14th and my own preference with # 1-2. still puzzled about #3 - 5 though.