Rosalind franklin on probation?

[KindofBlue]

I guess I'm the first to post, but an SDN user just posted on Rosalind's school specific thread about a probation that was just placed on Rosalind.
Apparently, they were just placed on probation by LCME and will lose accreditation if the problem isn't fixed by December.

Is there anyone else who can provide any more details about this or confirm the story?
Couldn't find any info as to why this happened so just hoping someone could chime in. Thanks!

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[karayaa]

The google just has stuff from 04
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...ison-committee-medical-education-student-debt
http://chronicle.com/article/Medical-School-Goes-on/20152

 

[KindofBlue]

Two students from Rosalind confirmed it, so I guess it's true.

Anyway, if anyone does get any more news, please share!

 

[CarlosDanger]

According to the LCME website, the programs on probation (at least at the time they last updated the website) are:

San Juan
Marshall
UT San Antonio

I'm sure if students are confirming this, its early news and will be updated soon. The website does say that they are up for review "2012-2013"

 

[Pandaeac]

_

 

[sazerac]

Rumor has it UT San Antonio was lifted from probation recently (as in weeks ago) and the LCME website hasn't quite been updated yet.

 

[Mr Avante]

why would san antonio be in probation?

 

[MilkIsGood]

why would san antonio be in probation?

partly because their curriculum was really old and behind the times. but they fixed all that.

 

[Mr Avante]

partly because their curriculum was really old and behind the times. but they fixed all that.

oh, sure they did. I think they incorporated pbl, right?

 

[Status Sciaticus]

oh, sure they did. I think they incorporated pbl, right?

Its a 1.5 year integrated curriculum.

The previous one was overkill and took up too much time with not enough high yield value.

 

[therealfinale]

Its a 1.5 year integrated curriculum.

The previous one was overkill and took up too much time with not enough high yield value.

Goodness, Gandalf, I see you everywhere in these threads!

 

[sector9]

Losing accreditation by December? As in December 2013?

That seems to be a very quick deadline, doesn't it? I mean, UTHSCSA has been on probation for like 2 years.

2nd probation for Rosalind Franklin in 10 years doesn't seem very encouraging

Not that I'm very familiar with LCME procedures or anything going on at the school

 

[PreMedRookie]

I no longer feel so sad about the rejection I received from them this week.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

You can't mean December 2013 right? That's an insanely short deadline and may as well be a revocation of their accreditation. The only way I could see it being that short is if whatever needs fixing is both severe and easily fixed.

What happens to students at a school that loses accreditation while they're still enrolled? If you're a fourth year and the accreditation goes out the window in your last semester, do you just collect a worthless degree and never go on to residency?

 

[487806]

You can't mean December 2013 right? That's an insanely short deadline and may as well be a revocation of their accreditation. The only way I could see it being that short is if whatever needs fixing is both severe and easily fixed.

What happens to students at a school that loses accreditation while they're still enrolled? If you're a fourth year and the accreditation goes out the window in your last semester, do you just collect a worthless degree and never go on to residency?

I don't think the MS4s would be in a disadvantage. Although it seems that if Rosalind Franklin did lose its accreditation, MS1-MS3 are pretty much screwed.

 

[tantacles]

Losing accreditation by December? As in December 2013?

That seems to be a very quick deadline, doesn't it? I mean, UTHSCSA has been on probation for like 2 years.

2nd probation for Rosalind Franklin in 10 years doesn't seem very encouraging

Not that I'm very familiar with LCME procedures or anything going on at the school

That particular post was made by a very panicked MS1. We were in no way told, nor was it in any way implied that we would lose our accreditation in mid-December.

 

[487806]

That particular post was made by a very panicked MS1. We were in no way told, nor was it in any way implied that we would lose our accreditation in mid-December.

Then I'd figure this thread is a false alarm.

 

[tantacles]

Then I'd figure this thread is a false alarm.

If any of our applicants have questions about the LCME and this particular situation, they can contact one of our recruiters, Sara Nobbe: [email protected]. She'll be available to answer any questions.

 

[CarlosDanger]

I think that if they lost accred. other schools would try to absorb the students so they wouldn't be totally screwed.

 

[eliezer1510]

We were put on probation, but again- this doesn't really affect the students. It is basically a bunch of administrative wording in bylaws and availability of lockers at a rotation site that resulted in this. We were actually complemented by the LCME team on our student body.
Being put on probation is not an emergent indicator of losing your accreditation (as weird as it sounds, it is true- very very rarely do schools actually lose accreditation). I am an MS3 here, and I can honestly say I am not worried.
When picking a school, this isn't the stuff to look at. Look at the student body- are they happy? Do they know their stuff? Do the students get into the residencies they want? Don't judge a school based off of paperwork.

 

[notbobtrustme]

We just had a meeting about this on Friday and no one said anything about losing accreditation in December.

 

[tantacles]

We just had a meeting about this on Friday and no one said anything about losing accreditation in December.

 

[Gastrapathy]

If any of our applicants have questions about the LCME and this particular situation, they can contact one of our recruiters, Sara Nobbe: [email protected]. She'll be available to answer any questions.

So does that mean its true? Why not have her come answer the question in this thread?

 

[487806]

So does that mean its true? Why not have her come answer the question in this thread?

She's here on SDN, but only in the Rosalind thread in school-specific forums.

 

[Cambover]

So does that mean its true? Why not have her come answer the question in this thread?

She was in the school-specific thread.

 

[Gastrapathy]

So is it true?

 

[tantacles]

So does that mean its true? Why not have her come answer the question in this thread?

I'm not sure that she's even seen this thread. Contrary to what you might think, most admissions recruiters aren't constantly monitoring SDN for new content. She posted of her own accord on behalf of the school in the school-specific thread and is available for any students to ask questions of her. Again, [email protected] . If you have a question about the LCME or about this particular situation, please e-mail her! She's an incredibly pleasant and wonderful person who happens to be an administrator at our school, and she's happy to answer any questions you might have.

 

[tantacles]

So is it true?

Here's her post from the RFUMS school-specific thread. I'd rather not editorialize.

Hello, I am Sara Nobbe, a recruiter with RFUMS. We met with all of our students today to explain the accreditation status of our school to them in person. As they heard, we are disappointed to share that the LCME has decided to assign probationary status to CMS. However, we remain fully accredited and the LCME's decision does not impact our current medical students' day-to-day activities, their ability to sit for boards, graduate or obtain residencies. We are working closely with the LCME to resolve the areas discussed today in the coming weeks.

We understand this news may cause you concern as you review your options for medical school applications. The recruitment team at CMS is committed to being available to answer any of your questions. Please email me at [email protected] and I will get back to you as soon as I can.

More information and an update about progress will be available on our website starting late next week. I will provide updates here as soon as I can.

Sara

 

[eguchijw]

I'm sure if students are confirming this, its early news and will be updated soon.

 

[steeno]

http://www.rosalindfranklin.edu/cms/LCME.aspx

 

[candbgirl]

So what does all of that stuff mean? Is the probation over?

 

[Mad Jack]

If they were given a deadline that short it had to be something really serious but readily corrected. Like, "okay, fiiiiine, we'll stop making the MS1s drown puppies in an effort to get them to understand and cope with death. Sorry LCME "

"Sooooo, now that we've got that sorted out.... do you guys want any puppies, because we totally already bought the ones for the next class..."

 

[scengineer]

If they were given a deadline that short it had to be something really serious but readily corrected. Like, "okay, fiiiiine, we'll stop making the MS1s drown puppies in an effort to get them to understand and cope with death. Sorry LCME "

"Sooooo, now that we've got that sorted out.... do you guys want any puppies, because we totally already bought the ones for the next class..."

Hahahahahaha

 

[deanthedream17]

Rosalind Franklin must be having financial problems. No school whose finances are strong would be put on the list. It is an embarrassment for the school and the alumni.

 

[Chipster.]

Rosalind Franklin must be having financial problems. No school whose finances are strong would be put on the list. It is an embarrassment for the school and the alumni.

You have no idea what you're talking about right now. It probably had nothing to do with financial problems. Schools have been put on probation for stuff like not having adequate study space for students or issues with particular courses. LCME has strict standards, which is why we have the best medical schools in the world.

Focus on getting that acceptance before you talk about what's embarrassing for others.

 

[deanthedream17]

You have no idea what you're talking about right now. It probably had nothing to do with financial problems. Schools have been put on probation for stuff like not having adequate study space for students or issues with particular courses. LCME has strict standards, which is why we have the best medical schools in the world.

Focus on getting that acceptance before you talk about what's embarrassing for others.

LOL. YOU MAD BRO?

I doubt that Harvard would ever be put on the list.

 

[knv2u]

I wonder if this will/has lower the number of applicants to this school. Probation twice in ten years doesn't sound very good.

 

[Chipster.]

LOL. YOU MAD BRO?

I doubt that Harvard would ever be put on the list.

Nah man, I have no connections to any schools that are on or have been on probation. Just kinda tired of the misinformed posts you make every few months.

And Harvard absolutely would be put on that list if it didn't meet an LCME requirement. It has nothing to do with funding, you're just wrong.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

It's cool dudes. We got you. Just apply for DO accreditation and problem solved.

 

[deanthedream17]

Nah man, I have no connections to any schools that are on or have been on probation. Just kinda tired of the misinformed posts you make every few months.

And Harvard absolutely would be put on that list if it didn't meet an LCME requirement. It has nothing to do with funding, you're just wrong.

I barely ever make posts so I doubt it.

 

[chenzt]

LOL. YOU MAD BRO?

I doubt that Harvard would ever be put on the list.

Harvard will if they decide to not install lockers at all for students. Except they're not stupid enough to put themselves in those situation.

 

[grumpiestcat]

According to the LCME website, the programs on probation (at least at the time they last updated the website) are:

San Juan
Marshall
UT San Antonio

I'm sure if students are confirming this, its early news and will be updated soon. The website does say that they are up for review "2012-2013"

Marshall's off the list now

 

[TREDWISE]

Nah man, I have no connections to any schools that are on or have been on probation. Just kinda tired of the misinformed posts you make every few months.

And Harvard absolutely would be put on that list if it didn't meet an LCME requirement. It has nothing to do with funding, you're just wrong.

It actually does have to do with funding. One of the reasons why they were put on probation recently is for relying on student tuition too much for funding and putting them into too much debt. Funding also had a role in why they lost it the first time.

 

[CarlosDanger]

After a quick glance, issues that RFU is still in non-compliance with relate to deficiencies in clinical and preclinical course objectives, diversity, scholarships, too many lecturers rather than real faculty, and locker space. There are 8 other issues I didn't read about that are now qualified as "in compliance with a need for monitoring."

Some of these issues directly or indirectly probably relate to lack of money, others not as much. The LCME isn't going to just slap probation on a school for a few lockers, although thats the one that gets the most laughs because it seems nitpicky. It's a fairly large list of stuff they need/needed to fix.

The truth is that it doesn't matter for most applicants, not unless RFU actually gets shut down. There are so many applicants that would kill to get into a US MD program, the only people they may lose is those who have multiple acceptances and aren't tied to to the greater Chicago area. Their admissions stats may drop a bit, but if it's your only acceptance, you're probably gonna matriculate. I have no idea what it would take for a school to get shut down, but my guess is it won't happen here.

 

[gobears2009]

After a quick glance, issues that RFU is still in non-compliance with relate to deficiencies in clinical and preclinical course objectives, diversity, scholarships, too many lecturers rather than real faculty, and locker space. There are 8 other issues I didn't read about that are now qualified as "in compliance with a need for monitoring."

Some of these issues directly or indirectly probably relate to lack of money, others not as much. The LCME isn't going to just slap probation on a school for a few lockers, although thats the one that gets the most laughs because it seems nitpicky. It's a fairly large list of stuff they need/needed to fix.

The truth is that it doesn't matter for most applicants, not unless RFU actually gets shut down. There are so many applicants that would kill to get into a US MD program, the only people they may lose is those who have multiple acceptances and aren't tied to to the greater Chicago area. Their admissions stats may drop a bit, but if it's your only acceptance, you're probably gonna matriculate. I have no idea what it would take for a school to get shut down, but my guess is it won't happen here.

No school has ever lost their accreditation after being placed on probation. I seriously doubt it will happen this time, especially considering the nature of the problems.

 

[tantacles]

So what does all of that stuff mean? Is the probation over?

No. When the LCME places a school on probation, they typically ask the school to address the problem and then they monitor the school to ensure that there are results. That's exactly what's happening here.

 

[tantacles]

Rosalind Franklin must be having financial problems. No school whose finances are strong would be put on the list. It is an embarrassment for the school and the alumni.

I would strongly suggest you take a look at the website. It contains a list of the actual citations.

 

[TREDWISE]

I would strongly suggest you take a look at the website. It contains a list of the actual citations.

I would say this guy covers it well:

After a quick glance, issues that RFU is still in non-compliance with relate to deficiencies in clinical and preclinical course objectives, diversity, scholarships, too many lecturers rather than real faculty, and locker space. There are 8 other issues I didn't read about that are now qualified as "in compliance with a need for monitoring."

Some of these issues directly or indirectly probably relate to lack of money, others not as much. The LCME isn't going to just slap probation on a school for a few lockers, although thats the one that gets the most laughs because it seems nitpicky. It's a fairly large list of stuff they need/needed to fix.

The truth is that it doesn't matter for most applicants, not unless RFU actually gets shut down. There are so many applicants that would kill to get into a US MD program, the only people they may lose is those who have multiple acceptances and aren't tied to to the greater Chicago area. Their admissions stats may drop a bit, but if it's your only acceptance, you're probably gonna matriculate. I have no idea what it would take for a school to get shut down, but my guess is it won't happen here.

Regardless, CMS seems to have addressed most of the concerns in the report. Financial issues don't go away overnight, however.

 

[deanthedream17]

I would strongly suggest you take a look at the website. It contains a list of the actual citations.

I have read the website. My point is that a school that is well off financially has oversight committees and the resources needed to make sure they are following protocol so this does not happen.

 

[baconshrimps]

LOL. YOU MAD BRO?

I doubt that Harvard would ever be put on the list.

If you had a $32B endowment you'd probably own the LCME.