Ross or Saba with family

[W19]

The only Carib schools that are worth going to are located in Puerto Rico...

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[Skip Intro]

Sweet baby Jesus do not go to the Caribbean. I worked with a 34 year old unmatched scribe and it was so depressing to hear her talk about the experience. She went through a period of contemplating suicide. Her next move is to leave the country and retrain as a primary school teacher because she can't find decent work in or outside of medicine now. I got the impression she was planning to go AWOL on the federal debt.

Thank you for sharing an anecdote.

1) What school?

2) You can't go "AWOL" on Federal Debt... unless (as you suggest) one leaves the country with no plans of ever returning.

3) "Contemplating suicide" is never an appropriate coping response to this type of situation. I hope, at the very least, you (if you are a medical professional yourself) pointed her to a resource to address this. If true, it is possible that there may be deeper psychological issues going on with your scribe friend. Maybe this has been party to her failures in school and, perhaps, in life.

-Skip

 

[gyngyn]

Can these FM docs with OB fellowship be BC?

They can become board certified in Family Medicine. They cannot be denied privileges for any procedures for which they can document competency.

Ob/Gyn certification is for those who have completed an Ob-Gyn residency and have demonstrated competence as a consultant in the depth and breadth of the field.

 

[cassis_Cake]

I've heard both good and bad things about the Caribbean.. but lets face it, I know that if I end up going to the Caribbean, I will have to work much harder than any of the students in US MD or DO programs and I just have to accept that. If I don't get into any D.O program this year, I'm seriously looking at AUC and heard a lot of good things about it. I know there's a lot of drawbacks as well but I'm determined to work hard and succeed. I have no disillusionment about going to the Caribbean and my goals have always been to practice in FM or IM.

 

[Ericslv]

They can become board certified in Family Medicine. They cannot be denied privileges for any procedures for which they can document competency.

Ob/Gyn certification is for those who have completed an Ob-Gyn residency and have demonstrated competence as a consultant in the depth and breadth of the field.

They CAN be denied for privileges in any hospital regardless of documented competency. Politics plays a major role in turf wars. The hospital administrator can simply say they only accept BC OB/GYN for their hospitals. The more rural you are the less that will happen.

 

[gyngyn]

They CAN be denied for privileges in any hospital regardless of documented competency. Politics plays a major role in turf wars. The hospital administrator can simply say they only accept BC OB/GYN for their hospitals. The more rural you are the less that will happen.

They are denied when they don't apply at the initial application for hospital privileges. The "political" denials occur after the primary list is approved and the applicant notices that they have been given the usual list of privileges for FM and try to add on others. In those cases the applicant must be proctored. The odds that a competitor will want to proctor her is small.

This is important to note for all specialties.

 

[Ericslv]

They are denied when they don't apply at the initial application for hospital privileges. The "political" denials occur after the primary list is approved and the applicant notices that they have been given the usual list of privileges for FM and try to add on others. In those cases the applicant must be proctored. The odds that a competitor will want to proctor her is small.

This is important to note for all specialties.

You are correct but it's highly variable from state to state and city to city.

My biggest concern with her wanting to become and ob/gyn is that she hasn't even started med-school and has no idea what she may or my not like. Just because she has 3 kids does not mean she will enjoy delivering babies and doing gyn surgery.

 

[Skip Intro]

They are denied when they don't apply at the initial application for hospital privileges. The "political" denials occur after the primary list is approved and the applicant notices that they have been given the usual list of privileges for FM and try to add on others. In those cases the applicant must be proctored. The odds that a competitor will want to proctor her is small.

This is important to note for all specialties.

This may be what happens in academia, but it is far from what happens in private practice hospitals in a diverse and competitive market.

For example, we recently expanded our DaVinci robotic surgery program and several of the general surgeons had to be "proctored" to get credentialed for hernia repair and cholecystectomy. The two applying had no problem getting cases and someone to sign-off on them. The hospital wants doctors to use the equipment in which they've invested large amounts of money. Refusing to proctor someone is seen as non-collegial and is a good way to develop a poor reputation. That matters. At least in my town.

-Skip

 

[gyngyn]

This may be what happens in academia, but it is far from what happens in private practice hospitals in a diverse and competitive market.

For example, we recently expanded our DaVinci robotic surgery program and several of the general surgeons had to be "proctored" to get credentialed for hernia repair and cholecystectomy. The two applying had no problem getting cases and someone to sign-off on them. The hospital wants doctors to use the equipment in which they've invested large amounts of money. Refusing to proctor someone is seen as non-collegial and is a good way to develop a poor reputation. That matters. At least in my town.

-Skip

Mine is a caveat for non-academic hospitals, actually.
For example, the usual OB Gyn privileges list at a community hospital does not include operative cysto, ureteral stents and many other procedures usually done by urology. No hospital can deny these privileges if an initial request has been submitted with evidence of competence, but if not submitted in the primary application the hospital can require proctoring. The odds that a urologist will want to proctor a competitor in another specialty is small. Since OP is concerned about Ob privileges she should know that there is a path to privileges from FM. She should just be aware of the need to be alert to avoid financially motivated foot dragging from Ob-Gyns protecting their market.

 

[Euclid]

Why not have your husband stay in the states so he can work and pay the bills while you go to school? So he has to be a stay-at-home dad for 2 years while the debt is piling? I am also considering the Caribbean, but my wife will continue working here in the states. We also have no kids.

 

[Ceusina]

Why not have your husband stay in the states so he can work and pay the bills while you go to school? So he has to be a stay-at-home dad for 2 years while the debt is piling? I am also considering the Caribbean, but my wife will continue working here in the states. We also have no kids.

Everything changes when you have kids. It would be nearly impossible to be a "single" Dad to three kids and work full-time without A LOT of help/support from family and friends. Also, is it really fair to the kids to be separated from their mother for the majority of two years? I know single parents exist and make it work, but it's out of necessity. Moving to the Caribbean to attend medical school is not a necessity.

 

[Skip Intro]

Mine is a caveat for non-academic hospitals, actually.
For example, the usual OB Gyn privileges list at a community hospital does not include operative cysto, ureteral stents and many other procedures usually done by urology. No hospital can deny these privileges if an initial request has been submitted with evidence of competence, but if not submitted in the primary application the hospital can require proctoring. The odds that a urologist will want to proctor a competitor in another specialty is small. Since OP is concerned about Ob privileges she should know that there is a path to privileges from FM. She should just be aware of the need to be alert to avoid financially motivated foot dragging from Ob-Gyns protecting their market.

Unless they are going solo, there is usually someone in their own group willing to proctor them. If there is no one locally, they can go offsite/out-of-town to do it especially is the hospital is motivated to expand a service line (and/or sick of putting up with another group's demands). Happens all the time in my market. Nothing special. Not hard to do.

Once the pathway is achieved, the med exec committee better have a pretty darn good reason not to extend privileges... unless the hospital is interested in entertaining a lawsuit.

Real world. Welcome to it.

-Skip

 

[22031 Alum]

Unless they are going solo, there is usually someone in their own group willing to proctor them. If there is no one locally, they can go offsite/out-of-town to do it especially is the hospital is motivated to expand a service line (and/or sick of putting up with another group's demands). Happens all the time in my market. Nothing special. Not hard to do.

Once the pathway is achieved, the med exec committee better have a pretty darn good reason not to extend privileges... unless the hospital is interested in entertaining a lawsuit.

Real world. Welcome to it.

-Skip

Pretty sure @gyngyn's experience isn't any less "real world" for being different from your experience... But people on these forums do tend to have a hard time grasping the concept that there are a multitude of different practice environments out there.

For what it's worth, as another gynecologist at a different community hospital in a different market, gyngyn's description lines up with what I have seen more than yours.

 

[gyngyn]

Real world. Welcome to it.

-Skip

I've been licensed to practice independently for 33 years. I have worked in rural and urban FQHC's as well as academic centers (both public and private practice). This OP is hoping for a chance at the real world of Ob at the moment. My example is intended to show her that there are more viable options than the Caribbean to that end.

 

[general987]

OP, do you know who owns Ross University, your intended destination? And if you do, do you know the recent news regarding the parent company?

 

[Skip Intro]

For what it's worth, as another gynecologist at a different community hospital in a different market, gyngyn's description lines up with what I have seen more than yours.

You see? This is the problem with doctors right here. "The Man" tells you what you can and can't do, and you wanna just roll over like a whipped dog.

The primary issue - and this applies to gynecologists specifically - is many want to offer robotic surgery. I've been employed in three different markets in two different states. In one of those, there were two specialists who tried to monopolize the DaVinci robot. The hospital administration finally got sick of it, and they actually provided an external proctor to come in and train two new surgeons.

Yes, there are politics involved. Where in life doesn't that apply? The point is - this has nothing to do with coming from a Caribbean program. Once you are licensed and practicing, no one gives a crap where you went to school. They only care about the three "A"s - are you affable, available, and able.

-Skip

P.S. FP docs don't usually get significant additional privileges anywhere. One who had chronic wound care recently wanted to add "moderate to deep sedation" as a privilege (presumably during dressing changes). Denied. Could not demonstrate safety and proficiency in that clinical care area and therefore the hospital did not want the liability exposure which is all they ever really about. (Oh, and that particular doctor went to Johns Hopkins for medical school. Just FYI. I saw the entire credentialing pack and submitted my peer evaluation as a board-certified anesthesiologists - it had nothing to do with where anyone trained.)

So, I don't care if someone has been practicing 33 years or 333 years, you either understand this or you don't. Don't be a whipped dog!

 

[22031 Alum]

You see? This is the problem with doctors right here. "The Man" tells you what you can and can't do, and you wanna just roll over like a whipped dog.

The primary issue - and this applies to gynecologists specifically - is many want to offer robotic surgery. I've been employed in three different markets in two different states. In one of those, there were two specialists who tried to monopolize the DaVinci robot. The hospital administration finally got sick of it, and they actually provided an external proctor to come in and train two new surgeons.

Yes, there are politics involved. What in life doesn't? The point is - this has nothing to do with coming from a Caribbean program. Once you are licensed and practicing, no one gives a crap where you went to school. They only care about the three "A"s - are you affable, available, and able.

-Skip

P.S. FP docs don't usually get significant additional privileges anywhere. One who had chronic wound care recently wanted to add "moderate to deep sedation" as a privilege (presumably during dressing changes). Denied. Could not demonstrate safety and proficiency in that clinical care area and therefore the hospital did not want the liability exposure which is all this is ever really about. Oh, and that particular doctor went to Johns Hopkins for medical school.

So, I don't care if someone has been practicing 33 years or 333 years, you either understand this or you don't. Don't be a whipped dog!

I think in your enthusiasm to give us all a lecture we're talking past each other. I had to retread the older posts to make sure I was even responding to the same thing you were. My point (and I think @gyngyn as well) was that after you've started working at a facility, randomly applying for new privileges that you didn't check off with your initial application can be difficult or even completely blocked- as the sedation example you gave yourself illustrates. We kind of drifted off the original subject, but someone did ask about privileges for different procedures. Fact is, your best/easiest chance to get privileges for something is if you ask in your initial packet. You're right in that it has nothing to do with where you went to school, but we weren't really discussing that anymore.

 

[Skip Intro]

I'm giving a lecture because one is needed. No one drifted off point. I fully understand how this works. Many don't. And, the insinuation was that because a poster whipped his... ahem... "member" out (i.e. claiming they've been doing this for 33 years) that somehow that mattered.

What the underlying contention has been is that if you came from a Caribbean school this would necessarily mean that "politics" precludes you from getting a fair shake when applying for additional privileges after your initial credentiling and/or no one is going to proctor you. Bullsh*t.

My response to that -- so we're clear -- is the following:

1) If you are an ABMS board-certified in your specialty, no one gives a crap where you went to medical school or even where you did your training.
2) You need to demonstrate safety and proficiency in any subsequent credential you are seeking that you didn't get during residency/fellowship. A way (perhaps the only regular way, at least for surgical specialties) to do this is by being proctored. For many credentials, we only require demonstration of training and often three (yes, only 3) proctored cases.
3) Hospitals have an incentive to extend privileges to doctors, not deny them. But, they also do not want liability. And, they certainly don't want to be involved in lawsuits. If there is ANY indication that a physician who is otherwise qualified is having privileges withheld and/or can't get access to a pathway to achieve those additional privileges, they will get sued. I know specific cases where this has happened. Multi-million dollar cases (i.e. under the premise of denying care for patients in the community, preventing ability to expand revenue stream, collusion, etc.).

Are we clear?

-Skip

 

[22031 Alum]

What the underlying contention has been is that if you came from a Caribbean school this would necessarily mean that "politics" precludes you from getting a fair shake when applying for additional privileges after your initial credentiling and/or no one is going to proctor you. Bullsh*t.

I don't see where anybody said that it was coming from a Caribbean school made a difference when applying for initial privileges. Just that applying for additional privileges is harder than applying for initial privileges for anyone. I certainly never meant to imply that the school you came from made a difference. Maybe I missed it? Apologies if so.

 

[gyngyn]

I'll try again.
My advice to OP was regarding the opportunity to attend women in labor and deliver them as a Family Practitioner.
She can not be denied these privileges if she includes them in her initial request along with documentation of competence. She is likely to have trouble acquiring these privileges if they are requested after initial submission. The reason I am explaining this has everything to do with my observation that all these options are possible with a DO degree that appears to be within her grasp. It has nothing to do with the Caribbean or graduates of their programs.

 

[bedevilled ben]

I would just like to mention that this is an interesting aspect of practice that, as a student, I've never really considered. I appreciate the insight.

 

[Skip Intro]

Okay... let's be perfectly clear here... and just so you know specifically what I am referencing in my retort and that we can avoid further cross-talking. This is also the last comment I'm going to make on this thread about this particular subject.

They CAN be denied for privileges in any hospital regardless of documented competency. Politics plays a major role in turf wars. The hospital administrator can simply say they only accept BC OB/GYN for their hospitals. The more rural you are the less that will happen.

Hospital administrators cannot simply say this. The bylaws of the medical executive committee and medical staff may require board-certification (eventually) to continue with privileges. Otherwise, it is illegal to do what you describe. And, if they try this, the lawyers will get involved. Trust me: no one wants the lawyers to get involved.

If you have a documented competency, you cannot be denied privileges provided that you can get medmal liability coverage and payors accept your credentialing for billing purposes (i.e., the hospital will be able to bill and collect for your services). Yes, BC/BE in a specialty is prima facia accepted as documentation of that competency. But, there are other pathways.

Having said that, I'm going to have a hard time as an anesthesiologist getting credentialed to do lap choles because it is not part of my core training.

I've been licensed to practice independently for 33 years. I have worked in rural and urban FQHC's as well as academic centers (both public and private practice). This OP is hoping for a chance at the real world of Ob at the moment. My example is intended to show her that there are more viable options than the Caribbean to that end.

Gyngyn - you said this! Credentialing has nothing to do with this! Neither does "politics".

And, plenty of Caribbean grads get into OB/Gyn residencies, as well.

Likewise, there are numerous FP residencies (for both DO and Carib-MD grads) that offer additional training in L&D, including full range of obstetrics. We currently have at least 3-4 FP docs on staff who are fully credentialed in L&D, and who do c-sections, etc. Their issue is the huge difference in medmal liability coverage vs. just doing range of standard FP practice. Essentially, they have to carry the same level of coverage as an obstetrician and, for most, this is both daunting and just simply not worth it.

If an FP doc - and I don't care where they came from - could document fellowship training in obstetrics with the requisite number of cases, could get medmal coverage from their liability carrier, and would be able to bill at our hospital for obstetrics (i.e., there would be no payor denial of services), they would get credentialed. Finding patients is up to them. That part has nothing to do with anything else.

If a bigger/larger group tried to "threaten" anything - either implicitly or explicitly - they would be dealt with accordingly by hospital administration. While not in OB, we deal with this kind of crap all the time with the local orthopedic groups. And, at some point, you simply have to say STFU and take your patients elsewhere. If they push it (and they usually don't), the word gets out and they have far more problems in the community than is usually worth to them.

Yes, it is a game. Learn how to play it. The earlier the better in your career. But, there are still rules to the game that you cannot break... unless you want to get the lawyers involved. And, again - trust me: no one wants that.

I would just like to mention that this is an interesting aspect of practice that, as a student, I've never really considered. I appreciate the insight.

-Skip

 

[22031 Alum]

The digression into credentialling started as gyngyn was correcting Ericslv's incorrect statement, pointing out that privileges actually can't just be denied willy-nilly, as long as you can show you were trained to do something. And that adding extra privileges after the fact is more difficult. We all agree the school you went to has nothing to do with that.

When he then mentioned the Caribbean again, as you quoted (and bolded and underlined), he was leaving that digression and returning to his original point that an OB/Gyn match may be harder than OP assumes and that she might have to get to OB through Family, and may not get trained to do the full breadth of OB (and definitely not Gyn) that she wants. Again, leaving the topic of credentialling behind.

The thread discussion did get a little convoluted, but your last post makes it pretty clear that we are somehow turning the same set of words into two very different conversations.

 

[general987]

To help the OP here is a direct link to the suit

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/pre...s-enforcement-action-against-devry-university


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[Ericslv]

Okay... let's be perfectly clear here... and just so you know specifically what I am referencing in my retort and that we can avoid further cross-talking. This is also the last comment I'm going to make on this thread about this particular subject.



Hospital administrators cannot simply say this. The bylaws of the medical executive committee and medical staff may require board-certification (eventually) to continue with privileges. Otherwise, it is illegal to do what you describe. And, if they try this, the lawyers will get involved. Trust me: no one wants the lawyers to get involved.

If you have a documented competency, you cannot be denied privileges provided that you can get medmal liability coverage and payors accept your credentialing for billing purposes (i.e., the hospital will be able to bill and collect for your services). Yes, BC/BE in a specialty is prima facia accepted as documentation of that competency. But, there are other pathways.

Having said that, I'm going to have a hard time as an anesthesiologist getting credentialed to do lap choles because it is not part of my core training.



Gyngyn - you said this! Credentialing has nothing to do with this! Neither does "politics".

And, plenty of Caribbean grads get into OB/Gyn residencies, as well.


They can but they never say it like that. They simply say they don't need another OB. Just like the insurance companies say they don't need another FP or whatever in a certain area.

Likewise, there are numerous FP residencies (for both DO and Carib-MD grads) that offer additional training in L&D, including full range of obstetrics. We currently have at least 3-4 FP docs on staff who are fully credentialed in L&D, and who do c-sections, etc. Their issue is the huge difference in medmal liability coverage vs. just doing range of standard FP practice. Essentially, they have to carry the same level of coverage as an obstetrician and, for most, this is both daunting and just simply not worth it.

If an FP doc - and I don't care where they came from - could document fellowship training in obstetrics with the requisite number of cases, could get medmal coverage from their liability carrier, and would be able to bill at our hospital for obstetrics (i.e., there would be no payor denial of services), they would get credentialed. Finding patients is up to them. That part has nothing to do with anything else.

If a bigger/larger group tried to "threaten" anything - either implicitly or explicitly - they would be dealt with accordingly by hospital administration. While not in OB, we deal with this kind of crap all the time with the local orthopedic groups. And, at some point, you simply have to say STFU and take your patients elsewhere. If they push it (and they usually don't), the word gets out and they have far more problems in the community than is usually worth to them.

Yes, it is a game. Learn how to play it. The earlier the better in your career. But, there are still rules to the game that you cannot break... unless you want to get the lawyers involved. And, again - trust me: no one wants that.





-Skip

 

[Ericslv]

The digression into credentialling started as gyngyn was correcting Ericslv's incorrect statement, pointing out that privileges actually can't just be denied willy-nilly, as long as you can show you were trained to do something. And that adding extra privileges after the fact is more difficult. We all agree the school you went to has nothing to do with that.

When he then mentioned the Caribbean again, as you quoted (and bolded and underlined), he was leaving that digression and returning to his original point that an OB/Gyn match may be harder than OP assumes and that she might have to get to OB through Family, and may not get trained to do the full breadth of OB (and definitely not Gyn) that she wants. Again, leaving the topic of credentialling behind.

The thread discussion did get a little convoluted, but your last post makes it pretty clear that we are somehow turning the same set of words into two very different conversations.

No. My statement is not incorrect. I know of several hospital in my area that won't credential ob for FPs and their reasoning is simple they don't want them. The politics is too much and the ob groups don't like the competition.

They don't say they don't credential you because of fp background they say they don't have any more room for another OB.

But that is not relevant to this conversation as you mention. I was pointing out the fact that ob is much more difficult to get into than FP for a Ross or SGU etc grad and therefore she can't go to med school thinking she is going to be an ob. She hasn't even started yet. Who know she might find interest in GI.

 

[Skip Intro]

To help the OP here is a direct link to the suit

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/pre...s-enforcement-action-against-devry-university


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

This article and lawsuit has nothing directly to do with the medical or veterinary school, other than the fact that it is an operating subsidiary of DeVry, Inc.

-Skip

 

[Skip Intro]

No. My statement is not incorrect. I know of several hospital in my area that won't credential ob for FPs and their reasoning is simple they don't want them. The politics is too much and the ob groups don't like the competition.

They don't say they don't credential you because of fp background they say they don't have any more room for another OB.

But that is not relevant to this conversation as you mention. I was pointing out the fact that ob is much more difficult to get into than FP for a Ross or SGU etc grad and therefore she can't go to med school thinking she is going to be an ob. She hasn't even started yet. Who know she might find interest in GI.

Please read up:

http://www.sedgwicklaw.com/Publications/detail.aspx?pub=3841

http://www.zelle.com/news-publications-152.html

http://www.kattenlaw.com/Files/55693_3_20_14 AHLA Power Point.pdf (start reading slide 12)

-Skip

 

[Ericslv]

Please read up:

http://www.sedgwicklaw.com/Publications/detail.aspx?pub=3841

http://www.zelle.com/news-publications-152.html

http://www.kattenlaw.com/Files/55693_3_20_14 AHLA Power Point.pdf (start reading slide 12)

-Skip

All true. If you can prove any of it. Or, if you have the money to pursue it.

 

[Xorthos]

May I ask why you say 400k? Their tuition doesn't seem that high... Also a waste? I've heard they match relatively well. Is this incorrect?

Because he's a troll.

 

[HopefulCanadian]

Hi,
I am new to the SDN though I've been reading posts for 4+ years. Anyway, I applied for the 2015 cycle to DO schools relieved 8/8 secondaries, sent back 2 and got no interviews. Fast forward, I now have 3 boys (4,2, and newborn) and at the advice of my Ob and friend I've applied to Ross and Saba. I've been granted an interview with Ross (9/29) and my admissions advisor from Saba said my stats look good and my profile will be given to the admissions committee tomorrow... So really I have a couple of questions.

1) I've read an interview with Ross is basically an acceptance, is this true?

2) anyone with kids, which island is better? More livable?

3) is it really impossible to get a residency? I would ideally prefer a community based Ob program.

4) pros and cons of either? Anyone currently living there-is it worth it?

5) those accepted what are your stats?

This thread appears to have gotten off topic a bit. I would like to try to add to the conversation before its to late.



1) I've read an interview with Ross is basically an acceptance, is this true?

Yes, apparently its true if you get an interview you are basically accepted as long as you don't mess up the interview. So you should still prepare for it and treat it as such.

2) anyone with kids, which island is better? More livable?
There are slightly better islands yes. Part of the problem is it takes 2 flights to get there. I would strongly suggest that you stay state side. I am a proponent of Caribbean, but with kids this may be a major disruption in your life. Especially in your clinical rotations when you are moving around all over its just easier to have a home base to look forward to and look back on.

Saba is on an island with less amenities on it though. I would pick Ross personally.

3) is it really impossible to get a residency? I would ideally prefer a community based Ob program.
No its not impossible. Its less competitive then a lot of others and people match each yea to OB GYN. Skip talked about this. The only factors based on your stats are your ability to possibly test take, and the fact that you have a family. Income during these years is tough especially if your moving around.


4) pros and cons of either? Anyone currently living there-is it worth it?

They are top 4 schools. In terms of the island I said Ross because of the population being larger. That means its easier to get certain things that you will miss from home. I have lived on an island before (in Canada) and even in a first world country you feel isolated.


5) those accepted what are your stats?
Not me I hjaven't applied yet as I am upgrading courses but my friends stats for SGU were between 3.3-3.5 GPA with a 31 on the old MCAT. They also had a masters. I believe it was 3.3 in their masters and 3.5 on their undergrad.


I think med school is great I hope to attend one day. I will attend one day. The family thing is tough. I truly believe that is why people are warning yout more than anything. Going to the Caribbean is tough on its own. You will have family, and your husband may or may not be able to work during this time. Additionally, moving around for your clinical years will make it tough for you to be around for your kids and you can't move your family every 4-6 weeks in some cases. You can try to schedule most of your rotations in the same places, but its still difficult. I wish you luck. Keep us posted.

 

[AlphaBeta<3]

You only returned two secondaries? Wtf... You also should have applied more broadly. If you want your children to have a high chance of growing up in poverty because you got the best 400k waste of paper money can buy, I'd say Ross.

I had no idea there was a Caribbean section on this site. I didn't know it was possible to be denied from those schools based on what everyone on pre-allo says?

 

[deleted480308]

OP, please don't do it. A 21mcat has a correlation to step failure and not matching is a significantly higher risk from the carrib.... if you don't feel it was representative then get a better score and go to a US school where you are all but guaranteed a residency. You'll never dig out of this debt if you go to the island and don't land that residency

 

[Mad Jack]

I had no idea there was a Caribbean section on this site. I didn't know it was possible to be denied from those schools based on what everyone on pre-allo says?

You can get rejected, but you have to really, really suck. Or have an extensive criminal record. Or be widely known for kicking puppies. It's hard, is what I'm sayin'.

 

[muqalia]

Hello AshleyRodgers,

I was actually just talking today with a RUSM friend about attending Ross with family in tow. He said that students do indeed take their families to Dominica. He mentioned that there are even single moms there as students (4 semester track), so there must be childcare near campus (I'm assuming).

There are videos on youtube that show the campus and the area.This is one from 2011, and a good one to start with:



If you haven't seen the youtube videos already, I would take a few minutes to check them out.

Good luck with your decision and endeavors!

Hey i saw my old place!!!