Rotations

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

wadigga33

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
53
Reaction score
0
Hi. I am a student in Poland and will be returning to the States in May and will start rotations thereafter. I was told by another student that doing rotations at a hospital in NY(Wychoff Med Center) will not allow you to gain a residency in certain states because the rotations are DO residencies and not MD residencies. Is this true? Has anyone heard of this also? Any info would be great, thanks.

Members don't see this ad.
 
How did your friend got the idea that doing a rotation at a hospital that has AOA approved programs would make you ineligible for residency positions in other states? Maybe I just don't understand your question, but it seems that your fellow classmate doesn't know what he/she is talking about. Completing a rotation at a hospital has no bearing on where you will do your residency (unless you are showcasing yourself at that hospital). Wyckoff has both AOA and ACGME approved programs: http://www.wyckoffhospital.org/gradmed_resprogram.htm. It doesn't matter whether you are graduating as an MD or DO: if your planning to do your residency there, then it would be in your best interest to rotate there.

Or maybe your friend was onto something. This was taken from a post (courtesy of realruby2000 and Apollyon) in the Emergency Medicine forum: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=169091

"is there any true disadvantage to doing 4 or 5 away rotations? I know I probably won't be able to take as many "fun" electives but other than that what other ways can it hurt me?"

"State licensure - some states won't accept training outside your home institution (regardless of the rotation being at an ACGME-program place), and states that dictate # of weeks are in the area of 68-72 weeks of clinical. I did one away, but had 80 weeks of clinical. If you do 20 weeks elsewhere, you might not have any wiggle room to be qualified in some states. Unfortunately, you have to look at the laws of each state individually. The Green Book has good summaries of what is needed for licensure in each."
 
IMGs/FMGs seeking a US residency are advised to make sure that their clinical rotations are acceptable to the states in which they might do their residency.

For example, Pennsylvania does not give credit for any rotations completed in its state toward those required for licensure; those wishing to do a residency there would be well advised to do their electives elsewhere.

In addition, some states do not accept rotations done in hospitals without ACGME residencies in the SAME field as the rotation or those done in hospitals without residencies or with only DO residencies. I cannot comment on the particular hospital which the OP is asking about, but this is not an uncommon practice.

Because I think the OP will get more responses in the International Forum (most US students do not have detailed knowledge of what's required for IMGs/FMGs), I'll move it there...
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Hey, thanks for replying. Well my buddy wasn't really sure. He just mentioned to me that he heard it from someone else that doing rotations at this hospital(Wychoff), would be accepted towards your degree but residency programs would not accept the rotations because some core rotations included DO, along with MD rotations. I was a little confused as to what he was talking about myself, that is the reason for my posting to see if anyone else had heard of this same thing or was just another unfound rumor. So once the hospital is AOA and/or ACGME approved, every residency program has to accept your rotations, regardless if your rotations included some DO rotations?
aerial said:
How did your friend got the idea that doing a rotation at a hospital that has AOA approved programs would make you ineligible for residency positions in other states? Maybe I just don't understand your question, but it seems that your fellow classmate doesn't know what he/she is talking about. Completing a rotation at a hospital has no bearing on where you will do your residency (unless you are showcasing yourself at that hospital). Wyckoff has both AOA and ACGME approved programs: http://www.wyckoffhospital.org/gradmed_resprogram.htm. It doesn't matter whether you are graduating as an MD or DO: if your planning to do your residency there, then it would be in your best interest to rotate there.

Or maybe your friend was onto something. This was taken from a post (courtesy of realruby2000 and Apollyon) in the Emergency Medicine forum: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=169091

"is there any true disadvantage to doing 4 or 5 away rotations? I know I probably won't be able to take as many "fun" electives but other than that what other ways can it hurt me?"

"State licensure - some states won't accept training outside your home institution (regardless of the rotation being at an ACGME-program place), and states that dictate # of weeks are in the area of 68-72 weeks of clinical. I did one away, but had 80 weeks of clinical. If you do 20 weeks elsewhere, you might not have any wiggle room to be qualified in some states. Unfortunately, you have to look at the laws of each state individually. The Green Book has good summaries of what is needed for licensure in each."
 
WHat is the Green Book that you mentioned?

aerial said:
How did your friend got the idea that doing a rotation at a hospital that has AOA approved programs would make you ineligible for residency positions in other states? Maybe I just don't understand your question, but it seems that your fellow classmate doesn't know what he/she is talking about. Completing a rotation at a hospital has no bearing on where you will do your residency (unless you are showcasing yourself at that hospital). Wyckoff has both AOA and ACGME approved programs: http://www.wyckoffhospital.org/gradmed_resprogram.htm. It doesn't matter whether you are graduating as an MD or DO: if your planning to do your residency there, then it would be in your best interest to rotate there.

Or maybe your friend was onto something. This was taken from a post (courtesy of realruby2000 and Apollyon) in the Emergency Medicine forum: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=169091

"is there any true disadvantage to doing 4 or 5 away rotations? I know I probably won't be able to take as many "fun" electives but other than that what other ways can it hurt me?"

"State licensure - some states won't accept training outside your home institution (regardless of the rotation being at an ACGME-program place), and states that dictate # of weeks are in the area of 68-72 weeks of clinical. I did one away, but had 80 weeks of clinical. If you do 20 weeks elsewhere, you might not have any wiggle room to be qualified in some states. Unfortunately, you have to look at the laws of each state individually. The Green Book has good summaries of what is needed for licensure in each."
 
wadigga33 said:
WHat is the Green Book that you mentioned?

Good question. :)

Apollyon was the poster of that information. Perhaps you could contact him/her. If that doesn't work, Google may help.
 
The "Green Book" is simply a book produced by the ACGME (I believe) which lists all the approved residencies with some contact and demographic data pertinent to each. Essentially it is the same data as found on FREIDA for all intents and purposes. In the olden days before computers, residents used to have a copy of the Green Book for applying to residencies. Most medical libraries in the US should have a copy.

Now, it is NOT true that simply because a hospital has AOA or ACGME approved residencies that "every residency has to accept your rotations, even if they included some DO rotations." Licensure and residency requirements vary from state to state - to be on the safe side, if applying for allopathic residencies in the US, I would NOT do any rotations at DO based programs because there are some residencies which will not approve those, even if there are allopathic residencies at the same hospital (which I'm not sure exist actually - ie, not at the same hospital). These rotations are ok for osteopathic students applying to allopathic residencies obviously but the same is not always true for allopaths.

I would check with your student coordinator as well as the licensing bureaus in the states in which you might be possibly doing residency as to their requirements.
 
Thank you for the information, it was very helpful.
Kimberli Cox said:
The "Green Book" is simply a book produced by the ACGME (I believe) which lists all the approved residencies with some contact and demographic data pertinent to each. Essentially it is the same data as found on FREIDA for all intents and purposes. In the olden days before computers, residents used to have a copy of the Green Book for applying to residencies. Most medical libraries in the US should have a copy.

Now, it is NOT true that simply because a hospital has AOA or ACGME approved residencies that "every residency has to accept your rotations, even if they included some DO rotations." Licensure and residency requirements vary from state to state - to be on the safe side, if applying for allopathic residencies in the US, I would NOT do any rotations at DO based programs because there are some residencies which will not approve those, even if there are allopathic residencies at the same hospital (which I'm not sure exist actually - ie, not at the same hospital). These rotations are ok for osteopathic students applying to allopathic residencies obviously but the same is not always true for allopaths.

I would check with your student coordinator as well as the licensing bureaus in the states in which you might be possibly doing residency as to their requirements.
 
Top