RVU Accreditation Delay

[AOAInsider]

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I have heard from a creditable source that RVU's full accreditation is not going to take place by 2012 when the innuagral class is scheduled to graduate but will most likely take place in 2013.

 

[Vishna]

Love the SN.

 

[DocEspana]

I have heard from a creditable source that RVU's full accreditation is not going to take place by 2012 when the innuagral class is scheduled to graduate but will most likely take place in 2013.

If this is true, the class of 2012 may want to try and transfer for their final year of rotations in order to graduate and move on to residency.

That is a doomsday scenario right there. Yikes. I can say TouroCOM got its accreditation a full month ago.

Aso the SN cracks me up. I wonder which one of the regular posters found this out and didnt want to sully their name with this hearsay so they made this new account. (I say heresay, and yet I just slightly inclined to believe it because its odd that it isnt accredited by now)

 

[willthethrill]

If this is true, well, there are going to be a lot of indebted people next year who are going to be residency-less and pretty angry. And most of that debt is in the forms of private loans...ouch town

But really...sdn rumors ≠ reality

 

[DocEspana]

plenty of schools get residencies without accreditation. They are just in the caribbean. So that won't stop anyone aiming to get in the ACGME. I'm curious if it would bar AOA residencies though.

Despite saying this: I dont believe the OP is correct at all. I'm just indulging myself in "what ifs" right now.

 

[Colodostudent]

I have heard from a creditable source that RVU's full accreditation is not going to take place by 2012 when the innuagral class is scheduled to graduate but will most likely take place in 2013.]


OH, I see, so now comes "AOA Insider" with his first/one post, quoting some unnamed but supposedly credible person, stating some BS about difficulty in accreditation that will take another year. So, are you a student who didn't get accepted here? Maybe a faculty member who didn't get hired, or one who got fired? Maybe you flunked out - Mr. supposed AOA insider?

So, I was personally at the exit conference (all students and faculty were invited to attend), when COCA did their last inspection. RVUCOM got many commendations, and at the end, the team captain commented on how well the school was doing, and how they looked forward to the final visit next year before graduation and the awarding of full accreditation, pending that successful visit.

I was also at the last Deans meeting, where he presented the AOA/COCA report that was quite complimentary, and mentioned that our final COCA visit prior to full accreditation will be next Februray.

Doc Espana: Since your all over this site, and are a frequent purveyour of "AOA information and expertise", you should know that you are not elliglbile for full accreditation until the inaugural class' graduation year, when an on-site visit is conducted by COCA evaluators to determine whether you can be granted full accreditation status, thats why your school Tourro-Harlem, just got accredited. RVU is just beginning it's fourth year and it's innaugural class is scheduled to graduate next May, that's why it couldn't possibly have anything beyond provisional accreditation yet! It will be elligilbe for the full accreditation status (just like your place was), next spring!

Sooo, here it goes again, As a student here, I'm really sick and tired with people on this site, passing BS information that is erroneous, and not backed up, slamming my medical school, and thus my reputation.

Mr. AOA insider, put up your sources!! If you can't, then stop spreading lies and innuendo! (Oh, I'm sure you'll say it was some big deal who "must remain anonymous", or you won't say anything at all.)

 

[IamaBanana]

That is a doomsday scenario right there. Yikes. I can say TouroCOM got its accreditation a full month ago.

Aso the SN cracks me up. I wonder which one of the regular posters found this out and didnt want to sully their name with this hearsay so they made this new account. (I say heresay, and yet I just slightly inclined to believe it because its odd that it isnt accredited by now)

It was you, wasn't it? Very clever, responding to your own post for misdirection.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Sooo, here it goes again, As a student here, I'm really sick and tired with people on this site, passing BS information that is erroneous, and not backed up, slamming my medical school, and thus my reputation.

Mr. AOA insider, put up your sources!! If you can't, then stop spreading lies and innuendo! (Oh, I'm sure you'll say it was some big deal who "must remain anonymous", or you won't say anything at all.)

Perhaps then, you shouldn't have gone to RVU.

This is what people were talking about 3 years ago when they were telling people not to go there. You think we are harsh, wait until residency match. I hope no one wants a decent academic center...

 

[AOAInsider]

I have heard from a creditable source that RVU's full accreditation is not going to take place by 2012 when the innuagral class is scheduled to graduate but will most likely take place in 2013.]


OH, I see, so now comes "AOA Insider" with his first/one post, quoting some unnamed but supposedly credible person, stating some BS about difficulty in accreditation that will take another year. So, are you a student who didn't get accepted here? Maybe a faculty member who didn't get hired, or one who got fired? Maybe you flunked out - Mr. supposed AOA insider?

So, I was personally at the exit conference (all students and faculty were invited to attend), when COCA did their last inspection. RVUCOM got many commendations, and at the end, the team captain commented on how well the school was doing, and how they looked forward to the final visit next year before graduation and the awarding of full accreditation, pending that successful visit.

I was also at the last Deans meeting, where he presented the AOA/COCA report that was quite complimentary, and mentioned that our final COCA visit prior to full accreditation will be next Februray.

Doc Espana: Since your all over this site, and are a frequent purveyour of "AOA information and expertise", you should know that you are not elliglbile for full accreditation until the inaugural class' graduation year, when an on-site visit is conducted by COCA evaluators to determine whether you can be granted full accreditation status, thats why your school Tourro-Harlem, just got accredited. RVU is just beginning it's fourth year and it's innaugural class is scheduled to graduate next May, that's why it couldn't possibly have anything beyond provisional accreditation yet! It will be elligilbe for the full accreditation status (just like your place was), next spring!

Sooo, here it goes again, As a student here, I'm really sick and tired with people on this site, passing BS information that is erroneous, and not backed up, slamming my medical school, and thus my reputation.

Mr. AOA insider, put up your sources!! If you can't, then stop spreading lies and innuendo! (Oh, I'm sure you'll say it was some big deal who "must remain anonymous", or you won't say anything at all.)

Don't kill the messenger. You are completely off as to my identity. I am in no way associated with the school or ever have been.

There are also some subtle change's to RVU's website due to this development. Note the financial aid part of the site:
http://www.rockyvistauniversity.org/financial_aid.asp
Any wording stating that title IV aid will be available in 2012 after the first class has graduated has been removed.

 

[CascadaFan]

I have heard from a creditable source that RVU's full accreditation is not going to take place by 2012 when the innuagral class is scheduled to graduate but will most likely take place in 2013.

We can hope so, the for-profit status of RVU is the greatest embarassment to medical (or osteopathic in this case) education in the states. Frankly, I would like to see their accredidation completely revoked.

I think it's unfortunate that a bunch of these students will have 3 years of useless classes and something should be done to help them, maybe a refund. But frankly, RVU is the laughing stock of the medical community, I can't tell you how many times I've asked an academic physician about RVU and they just roll their eyes.

 

[Easy C]

How I feel about each RVU thread that starts.

 

[EmmaNemma]

.

 

[preDoGuy24]

Does anyone know if this is true? Did the website change?

I hope the AOA is cracking down and trying to restore credibility to osteopathic medicine. That being said, I hope the hard-working students are able to achieve their goals.

No this is not true, the issue is with Stafford loans and new legislation possibly disallowing for-profit schools using government funded loan programs. Essentially it may take another year to get Stafford loans NOT accreditation.


Side note- if you don't think Osteopathic medicine is credible then don't become an Osteopathic Physician!

 

[Instatewaiter]

Does anyone know if this is true? Did the website change?

I hope the AOA is cracking down and trying to restore credibility to osteopathic medicine. That being said, I hope the hard-working students are able to achieve their goals.

Using the wayback machine, yes it did change and pretty recently.

Current: http://www.rockyvistauniversity.org/financial_aid.asp

From as recent as April: http://web.archive.org/web/20090403201107/http://www.rockyvistauniversity.org/financial_aid.asp

It went from: Rocky Vista University students will be eligible to participate in Federal "Title IV" Loan Programs when the college obtains full accreditation. The process for newly established medical schools to obtain full accreditation cannot be fulfilled until all the requirements for graduation of the inaugural class have been met. This means that students cannot receive Federal loans until we graduate our first class in 2012.

And changed to: As a new institution of higher learning, Rocky Vista University’s College of Osteopathic Medicine (RVUCOM) does not presently participate in federal student aid programs authorized under Title IV of the Higher Education Act. In order to participate in these programs, an institution needs to be licensed and accredited. RVUCOM is authorized to deliver professional osteopathic medical education and grant degrees. Moreover, RVUCOM is provisionally accredited by the American Osteopathic Association’s Commission on Osteopathic College Accreditation (COCA), an accrediting agency recognized by the Secretary of Education of the United States. RVUCOM can apply for institutional eligibility to participate in applicable Title IV loan programs once it has been accredited and that accreditation has been deemed by the Secretary to be appropriate to access such eligibility, whether through specialized, regional or national accreditation. Until RVUCOM becomes eligible to participate in these federal student loan programs, RVUCOM students finance their educational costs via a combination of private loans, scholarships and their own resources.


Notice that it no longer says that they will get accreditation in 2012 leading me to believe that what the OP posted is actually true.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I agree that the students shouldn't be punished. Before the school even had their first class, on SDN people said that the school promised transfers if they don't get accreditied. That may be the case. Unfortunately, most school will only allow you to transfer after 2nd year meaning RVU students may have to repeat 3rd year.

 

[willthethrill]

Looks like instatewaiter beat me too it but:

The website did change since the last screen shot taken by the "wayback machine" website archiver (from 2009, so that could be a factor too):

http://web.archive.org/web/20090403201107/http://www.rockyvistauniversity.org/financial_aid.asp

Compared to the current page:

http://www.rockyvistauniversity.org/financial_aid.asp

Now...if this is actually indicative of anything, who knows.

 

[Colodostudent]

Don't kill the messenger. You are completely off as to my identity. I am in no way associated with the school or ever have been.

There are also some subtle change's to RVU's website due to this development. Note the financial aid part of the site:
http://www.rockyvistauniversity.org/financial_aid.asp
Any wording stating that title IV aid will be available in 2012 after the first class has graduated has been removed.

Oh, so I see, Mr. AOA insider. So you've gone from "credible informants" that you won't/can't name, to now "secret messages" from subtle changes on a web posting. I read the statement your quoted , it says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about accreditation, or lack of abiliity to get it. Nothing at all. It is just talking about financial aid. (Hey, mayber your a conspiracy theorist?) So again, more BS.

I just talked to the financial aid dept here at the school. The director told me that because they can't guarantee when the exact date of availabliity of title IV funding will come (paper work, applications, etc.), they removed the date. It has NOTHING to do with COCA accreditation. Again, all indications are that RVU is on track for full accreditation, but then, I guess you would of know that had you done some real research on this by either contacting the school or the financial aid office, rather than just shooting off your mouth (or in this case, your keyboard).

Again, who are your sources, Mr. AOA insider? Or are you going to look for more "subtle changes" to send you secret messages?

 

[Easy C]

I have heard from a creditable source that RVU's full accreditation is not going to take place by 2012 when the innuagral class is scheduled to graduate but will most likely take place in 2013.

True. Once the first class graduates the next years class will be fully accredited, first graduating class graduates in 2012 next graduating class is 2013. Whether or not it happens at the point the first class graduates is irrelevant as long as RVU is still in a provisional and not in a suspended status once the school is fully accredited then they are fine, current and past graduates.


Although the OP later posts a link to the RVU webpage that talks about their accreditation this small statement is going in different directions. Are we talking about accreditation for loans or for the DO Degree.

Financial Aid as we have discussed and established in other threads is dependent on Regional accreditation not COCA accreditation, American Osteopathic Association's Commission on Osteopathic College Accreditation. Feel free to use your advanced search options in the forum.

As far as being a fully Accredited Medical School, RVU has been meeting each and every step along the way and even posts news about it in their RVU newsletters. http://www.rockyvistauniversity.org/newsletter.asp

If the OP was meaning to talk that RVU might not be an accredited Medical school then I think that statement holds now grounds considering there is nothing that shows they would loose its provisional accreditation or not be awarded its full accreditation. COCA has RVU listed as being in the proper place to become accredited: http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-a...-list-of-colleges-of-osteopathic-medicine.pdf and it even shows that even though COCA has given it Provisional, it's (COCA's) accreditation does not give it access to the student loans.

If we are talking about accreditation for student loans then for the love see previous posts.

If we are talking about not being an accredited Medical school then where is the evidence?
The COCA meeting at the end of August saw RVU get its provisional status continued :http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-a...llege-receives-provisional-accreditation.aspx .

And if it was fine then COCA states :
The COCA reviews schools with provisional accreditation annually to assess the academic progress of first, second and third-year classes up to their time of graduation. Initial provisional accreditation is awarded when a college is able to demonstrate that it will be able to initiate instruction by a specified date. Continuing provisional accreditation is awarded based upon demonstrating that a college is meeting the standards for accreditation for each class of instruction being offered.

So until August rolls around and COCA says RVU can no longer hold its accreditation then start a thread about this crap.

 

[AOAInsider]

Oh, so I see, Mr. AOA insider. So you've gone from "credible informants" that you won't/can't name, to now "secret messages" from subtle changes on a web posting. I read the statement your quoted , it says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about accreditation, or lack of abiliity to get it. Nothing at all. It is just talking about financial aid. (Hey, mayber your a conspiracy theorist?) So again, more BS.

I just talked to the financial aid dept here at the school. The director told me that because they can't guarantee when the exact date of availabliity of title IV funding will come (paper work, applications, etc.), they removed the date. It has NOTHING to do with COCA accreditation. Again, all indications are that RVU is on track for full accreditation, but then, I guess you would of know that had you done some real research on this by either contacting the school or the financial aid office, rather than just shooting off your mouth (or in this case, your keyboard).

Again, who are your sources, Mr. AOA insider? Or are you going to look for more "subtle changes" to send you secret messages?

You should probably talk to someone higher up at RVU to find out like the president or the school's lawyer. I know for a fact that accreditation for 2012 is off the table. I know this from a third party not associated with the school. This has nothing to do with inspections but with the for-profit status of the school causing problems (AOA is very pollitical).

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

 

[Easy C]

I know for a fact that accreditation for 2012 is off the table. I know this from a third party not associated with the school. This has nothing to do with inspections but with the for-profit status of the school causing problems (AOA is very pollitical).

I only mentioned one of several changes to the school's website to substantiate this because my source is confidential. I believe the accreditation page has also change with this development.
http://www.rockyvistauniversity.org/accreditation.asp

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

What Bad News?

Until the people that are responsible for the Accreditation say anything, any source your claim is a real as a 13 dollar bill. The school is completely where it needs to be for the time being. Even if it doesn't get the accreditation as long as its provisional status is not taken then there is no cause for concern. If the accreditation is taken then there is worry and its bad news. All you have shown is something concerning accreditation concerning Loans, and nothing that wasn't known before, except hearsay you have yet to provide concrete evidence that RVU is or will not be an accredited Medical School.

 

[AOAInsider]

What Bad News?

Until the people that are responsible for the Accreditation any source you claim is a real as a 13 dollar bill. The school is completely where it needs to be for the time being. Even if it doesn't get the accreditation as long as its provisional status is not taken then there is no cause for concern. If the accreditation is taken then there is worry and its bad news. All you have shown is something concerning accreditation concerning Loans, and nothing that wasn't known before, except hearsay you have yet to provide concrete evidence that RVU is or will not be an accredited Medical School.

RVU may, in fact, become accredited someday and their provisional accreditation may remain in place until then. However, I know for a fact that it will not be in 2012 like they were planning.

 

[Easy C]

Well from your posts there are a few things people know for a fact.

 

[Colodostudent]

PROVE IT!!! Mr. Know for a Fact, Name your source!!

Oh, and by the way, Here is a quote from the Predoc Coca Newsletter April - May 2011 COCA Recap http://newsmanager.commpartners.com/aoapre/issues/2011-06-09-email.html

"Continuing Provisional Accreditation was granted to: (1) Pacific Northwest University College of Osteopathic Medicine in Yakima, Wash.; (2) Rocky Vista University College of Osteopathic Medicine in Parker, Colo.; and (3) William Carey University College of Osteopathic Medicine in Hattiesburg, Miss."

So, again, you can put your info in bold print all you want, but here is my proof, where's yours? PROVE IT UP!!

 

[JaggerPlate]

Hmmm interesting. Frankly, I'd feel awful for the students, but it might not be the worst thing in the world to see the AOA butt heads with COCA (we had the AOA president speak at our school a while back and she was adamant about the fact that the AOA and COCA are separate bodies and some of the issues with the large number of new campuses popping up and the for profit stuff didn't receive the final 'ok' from the President's office), and it does make me wonder the legality of going through loop holes and filing for non-profit tax status.

Haven't entities like churches done this in the past? Refiled and obtained non-profit status?

 

[fiznat]

Expert trolling? Not sure. I guess we'll find out in a year....

 

[ShyRem]

While we all appreciate reasonable discussion, rumors sometimes turn out to be true (this in fact happened here on SDN a few years ago dealing with accreditation of a "professional" school). Often they are false. However, it does make for interesting discussion and this is what SDN is about. Discussion. If you don't like someone's opinion, you have the option to ignore it or dispute it professionally and civilly.

I ask that you all keep the discussion civil while you each state your respective sides. Personally, I have always found "facts" without cited sources to be rather amusing.

Now, discuss away. But remember, rumors and differences of opinion as long as they are professionally stated are not TOS violations. Thank you.

 

[Easy C]

In that case here is what my source says.

 

[AOAInsider]

PROVE IT!!! Mr. Know for a Fact, Name your source!!

Oh, and by the way, Here is a quote from the Predoc Coca Newsletter April - May 2011 COCA Recap http://newsmanager.commpartners.com/aoapre/issues/2011-06-09-email.html

"Continuing Provisional Accreditation was granted to: (1) Pacific Northwest University College of Osteopathic Medicine in Yakima, Wash.; (2) Rocky Vista University College of Osteopathic Medicine in Parker, Colo.; and (3) William Carey University College of Osteopathic Medicine in Hattiesburg, Miss."

So, again, you can put your info in bold print all you want, but here is my proof, where's yours? PROVE IT UP!!

Yes, RVU has provisional accreditation and it will probably continue to have provisional accreditation in 2012. In 2013, it may receive full accreditation. However, it will not receive full accreditation in 2012. I know that you would like to know my source. Unfortunately, it is strictly confidential.

Call the president of the school and ask him why the paragraph below appeared on the 2009 version of the website but has now disappeared?

2009 link http://web.archive.org/web/20090403201107/http://www.rockyvistauniversity.org/financial_aid.asp
"Rocky Vista University students will be eligible to participate in Federal "Title IV" Loan Programs when the college obtains full accreditation. The process for newly established medical schools to obtain full accreditation cannot be fulfilled until all the requirements for graduation of the inaugural class have been met. This means that students cannot receive Federal loans until we graduate our first class in 2012."

Current Link
http://www.rockyvistauniversity.org/financial_aid.asp

 

[Kevin Baker]

Yes, RVU has provisional accreditation and it will probably continue to have provisional accreditation in 2012. In 2013, it may receive full accreditation. However, it will not receive full accreditation in 2012. I know that you would like to know my source. Unfortunately, it is strictly confidential.

Call the president of the school and ask him why the paragraph below appeared on the 2009 version of the website but has now disappeared?

2009 link http://web.archive.org/web/20090403201107/http://www.rockyvistauniversity.org/financial_aid.asp
"Rocky Vista University students will be eligible to participate in Federal "Title IV" Loan Programs when the college obtains full accreditation. The process for newly established medical schools to obtain full accreditation cannot be fulfilled until all the requirements for graduation of the inaugural class have been met. This means that students cannot receive Federal loans until we graduate our first class in 2012."

Current Link
http://www.rockyvistauniversity.org/financial_aid.asp

If that's true, and RVU knows this and hasnt told incoming or current students, arent they omitting material information as far as loans go? They package the loans, right? The loan issue would cost students a lot of money. Something isn't adding up, or the RVU admin is being really shady.

 

[LifeTake2]

Call the president of the school and ask him why the paragraph below appeared on the 2009 version of the website but has now disappeared?

Ok, I as a personal rule try to stay out of threads like this but I can't help myself.

DO YOU REALLY THINK THE PRESIDENT OF A MEDICAL SCHOOL KNOWS WHAT IS ON THE WEBSITE????

The President of RVU had nothing to do with that change. Whether it was changed for some specific reason or not is only known by the grunt that did it. And most likely they were just told 'hey update this'. Nobody at the level of President worry's about a website, that is what his staff and their staff is for.

I'm afraid you are just digging yourself a bigger hole, if you had anything credible you would have already given it to us. You are just guessing and bailing water like crazy.

 

[Colodostudent]

Yes, RVU has provisional accreditation and it will probably continue to have provisional accreditation in 2012. In 2013, it may receive full accreditation. However, it will not receive full accreditation in 2012. I know that you would like to know my source. Unfortunately, it is strictly confidential.

Call the president of the school and ask him why the paragraph below appeared on the 2009 version of the website but has now disappeared?

2009 link http://web.archive.org/web/20090403201107/http://www.rockyvistauniversity.org/financial_aid.asp
"Rocky Vista University students will be eligible to participate in Federal "Title IV" Loan Programs when the college obtains full accreditation. The process for newly established medical schools to obtain full accreditation cannot be fulfilled until all the requirements for graduation of the inaugural class have been met. This means that students cannot receive Federal loans until we graduate our first class in 2012."

Current Link
http://www.rockyvistauniversity.org/financial_aid.asp

OH, yea, top secret, striclty confidential source!! WoW, you must be like super well connected to the AOA or COCA I guess, huh.

And now your digging up some stuff from 2009 on a web post, when there was a different president! Really slick there. But your post still talks about loans and not accreditation! And by the way, there are differences between regional accreditation, COCA accreditation, and title IV elligiblity. Perhaps you should have some more conversation with your un-named confidential source about this stuff. Is your source an AOA officer? A member of the COCA board? I still see what appears to be a disgruntled person (you Mr/Ms AOAInsider) spreading misinformation, lies, and inuendo, that you can't back up?

Man, your really reaching for straws if you have to reach back a couple of years and analyze web posts, word by word, looking for discrepencies that might appear two years later.

C'mon, why don't you just tell us what your reall beef is? Didn't get accepted, failed out, got fired?

What-ever!

 

[alijen]

Yes, RVU has provisional accreditation and it will probably continue to have provisional accreditation in 2012. In 2013, it may receive full accreditation. However, it will not receive full accreditation in 2012. I know that you would like to know my source. Unfortunately, it is strictly confidential.

Call the president of the school and ask him why the paragraph below appeared on the 2009 version of the website but has now disappeared?

2009 link http://web.archive.org/web/20090403201107/http://www.rockyvistauniversity.org/financial_aid.asp
"Rocky Vista University students will be eligible to participate in Federal "Title IV" Loan Programs when the college obtains full accreditation. The process for newly established medical schools to obtain full accreditation cannot be fulfilled until all the requirements for graduation of the inaugural class have been met. This means that students cannot receive Federal loans until we graduate our first class in 2012."

Current Link
http://www.rockyvistauniversity.org/financial_aid.asp

And that is your proof? Yes, the information on the financial aid page of the RVU web site has been revised. Those revisions are a result of changes in the Title IV program and have nothing to do with RVU's COCA accreditation. Don't believe me? Call the RVU financial aid department and find out for yourself. RVU has nothing to hide - unfortunately it's a shame that people like you are vindictive and seem to have nothing better to do than to stir up trouble.

Now AOAInsider, I know who you are. You are a RVUOutsider that is doing nothing but dispensing your sour grapes. Just because you have a personal vendetta with RVU, there is no need to start ugly rumors. Move on already and stop being jealous of RVU's success.

 

[AOAInsider]

And that is your proof? Yes, the information on the financial aid page of the RVU web site has been revised. Those revisions are a result of changes in the Title IV program and have nothing to do with RVU's COCA accreditation. Don't believe me? Call the RVU financial aid department and find out for yourself. RVU has nothing to hide - unfortunately it's a shame that people like you are vindictive and seem to have nothing better to do than to stir up trouble.

Now AOAInsider, I know who you are. You are a RVUOutsider that is doing nothing but dispensing your sour grapes. Just because you have a personal vendetta with RVU, there is no need to start ugly rumors. Move on already and stop being jealous of RVU's success.

Nope. I am just showing that the deletion supports the rumor. Sorry.

 

[Gigantron]

In that case here is what my source says.

My source said otherwise:

😱

 

[boone95]

Mods-
This thread needs to be closed. It's absurd that someone, who obviously made a new screen name, can come in and start such a profoundly untrue rumor. This ridiculous claim couldn't be farther from the truth.
If someone wants to start a legit discussion, that's great. But this thread is absurd.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

There's a crapload of misinformation on this thread. Caribbean schools ARE accredited, the big four are all accredited in the US and 3 of them participate in federal student aid. RVU is for-profit, this is true... and it is also true that many other for-profit schools do provide decent education and participate in federal student aid. The only changes happening with federal student aid regarding for-profit schools is that they have to start PROVING that their graduates can get jobs in the fields they have degrees in because too many of them are frauds. Is RVU a fraud, no, I do not believe they are. They have well-respected faculty from around the country, and their student body is generally happy. Additionally, I have talked with people in the 'medical community' and it's funny people say they are a laughing stock, most physicians I have spoken with have no idea about them, one DO said "aren't they super expensive"? I said the tuition was ~40k/yr and she said, "well crap, that's less than I paid" sooooo.... 'laughing stock', I doubt it... Only time will tell whether they get their full accreditation, but I believe they will. There are several 'for-profit' PA schools, and they have accreditation, and they aren't 'laughing stocks' of the PA community.... all will be well, and this is another attempt to sway people against a school. Personally, I think the OP has poor stats and is hoping to use this to decrease competition at RVU...

 

[Colbare]

I would hope COCA wouldn't grant provisional accreditation without intending to follow through with full accreditation especially knowing the financial status from the beginning. I really hope the students don't pay for a political mishap in the process of their education. I think if they've passed the boards they deserve the same shot at residencies as every other U.S. student.

If for some reason the financial status ordeal can't be resolved RVU needs to step up and do what it takes to become a non-profit organization for their students who have dedicated so much to them already.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

I would hope COCA wouldn't grant provisional accreditation without intending to follow through with full accreditation especially knowing the financial status from the beginning. I really hope the students don't pay for a political mishap in the process of their education. I think if they've passed the boards they deserve the same shot at residencies as every other U.S. student.

If for some reason the financial status ordeal can't be resolved RVU needs to step up and do what it takes to become a non-profit organization for their students who have dedicated so much to them already.

👍👍👍
QFT

 

[fiznat]

Assuming, just for argument, that this guy is right...

What kind of effect do you think something like this would have on the osteopathic community? Would it reflect badly on all DO's to have such a public humiliation of one of it's own schools? Or would it look good-- AOA enforcing standards for the profession? Would it slow the development of new schools?

It certainly would be interesting to have something unprecedented like this actually happen. I agree that the students need to be taken care of somehow, but maybe it isn't such a bad thing to have the AOA make some waves enforcing an educational standard.

 

[SLC]

Assuming, just for argument, that this guy is right...

What kind of effect do you think something like this would have on the osteopathic community? Would it reflect badly on all DO's to have such a public humiliation of one of it's own schools? Or would it look good-- AOA enforcing standards for the profession? Would it slow the development of new schools?

It certainly would be interesting to have something unprecedented like this actually happen. I agree that the students need to be taken care of somehow, but maybe it isn't such a bad thing to have the AOA make some waves enforcing an educational standard.

It's probably a different situation, but I know that ATSU-SOMA just barely achieved full accreditation (graduated their first class this month). During my interview there it was explained to us that accreditation was all but finalized, but that ATSU had insurance to the tune of 50 or so million that would pay for our educations elsewhere.

The details are a little hazy, but it was clear that they had their bases covered just in case, so their students didn't have to pay the price for something that is outside of their control.

SLC

 

[MossPoh]

As a student from an MD school, I honestly don't think most of us would notice. I'm far more in tune with DO school stuff than most of my classmates and they are completely clueless that RVU even exists ( for the most part ). I think it is far more damaging within the more paranoid groups of people who think everyone knows every little misstep and that patients will all of a sudden stop seeing DOs. Most patients don't even know how long med school is or what residency really is, let alone the for-profit school debate.

 

[vandyam]

As a student from an MD school, I honestly don't think most of us would notice. I'm far more in tune with DO school stuff than most of my classmates and they are completely clueless that RVU even exists ( for the most part ). I think it is far more damaging within the more paranoid groups of people who think everyone knows every little misstep and that patients will all of a sudden stop seeing DOs. Most patients don't even know how long med school is or what residency really is, let alone the for-profit school debate.

Agreed. Most patient information (average patient) comes from Gray's Anatomy or ER or Private Practice. I hear people all the time ask if I'm in school for nursing *after* I tell them I am going to medical school. I see techs get called doctor or nurse all the time, and nurses the same way. These conversations are really more amongst us as far as "reputation" is concerned, and quite frankly any worthy physican basis their collegues on skill and personality more than what school they attended. If you went to Hopkins but your a jackass, that is how people look at you (like a jackass, lol). To that end, most patients (and even other doctors) do not know what a DO is. I talked to a Vanderbilt medical student last week who furrowed their brow when I mentioned wanting to go DO and that I might choose it over MD if I like the region of the DO school better. After a conversation ensued I mentioned that they had the same rights and made the same income - to which he literally caught his breath and said, "what?!?" Even amongst the medical community there is confusion. I would not worry about reputation in this debate.

And regardless if this rumor is true (and it appears, even if it were the effect would be nil), RVU should be putting their students first and taking care of them.

 

[Instatewaiter]

There's a crapload of misinformation on this thread. Caribbean schools ARE accredited, the big four are all accredited in the US and 3 of them participate in federal student aid.

Actually, none of the carribean schools are accredited.

Accreditation comes from either the LCME (MD) or COCA (DO). The Carribean schools are MD schools and DO NOT have LCME accreditation. The only "carribean" schools that have accreditation are PONCE, San Juan Bautista and University of Puerto Rico... which aren't really Carribean schools.

RVU is for-profit, this is true... and it is also true that many other for-profit schools do provide decent education and participate in federal student aid.

Name a for-profit school that provides a "decent" education.

And regardless if this rumor is true (and it appears, even if it were the effect would be nil), RVU should be putting their students first and taking care of them.

Agreed. And despite the banter on the thread, there really is no evidence to the contrary...

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

http://www.saba.edu/saba/index.php/about-saba/compare-saba/accreditations

 

[ShyRem]

Interesting. I have never heard of the ACCM. Interesting they don't actually state they are not LCME accredited, but certainly imply such.

I'm not absolutely certain on which schools can be LCME accredited -- is this just reserved for purely US med schools and there is absolutely no way for a foreign school to become LCME accredited? (that is my impression.) Or is it just that difficult to become so that no non-US school bothers? I do know that you have to be LCME accredited to receive stafford loans. Or can non-LCME students get those too? (oh, my ignorance is showing through bright and shiny today!)

 

[DocEspana]

Doc Espana: Since your all over this site, and are a frequent purveyour of "AOA information and expertise", you should know that you are not elliglbile for full accreditation until the inaugural class' graduation year, when an on-site visit is conducted by COCA evaluators to determine whether you can be granted full accreditation status, thats why your school Tourro-Harlem, just got accredited. RVU is just beginning it's fourth year and it's innaugural class is scheduled to graduate next May, that's why it couldn't possibly have anything beyond provisional accreditation yet! It will be elligilbe for the full accreditation status (just like your place was), next spring!

Sooo, here it goes again, As a student here, I'm really sick and tired with people on this site, passing BS information that is erroneous, and not backed up, slamming my medical school, and thus my reputation.

Mr. AOA insider, put up your sources!! If you can't, then stop spreading lies and innuendo! (Oh, I'm sure you'll say it was some big deal who "must remain anonymous", or you won't say anything at all.)

My bad. Thought RVU was in its 4th year of existence. Complete fail by me and I take credit for that.

 

[DocEspana]

There's a crapload of misinformation on this thread. Caribbean schools ARE accredited, the big four are all accredited in the US and 3 of them participate in federal student aid. RVU is for-profit, this is true... and it is also true that many other for-profit schools do provide decent education and participate in federal student aid. The only changes happening with federal student aid regarding for-profit schools is that they have to start PROVING that their graduates can get jobs in the fields they have degrees in because too many of them are frauds. Is RVU a fraud, no, I do not believe they are. They have well-respected faculty from around the country, and their student body is generally happy. Additionally, I have talked with people in the 'medical community' and it's funny people say they are a laughing stock, most physicians I have spoken with have no idea about them, one DO said "aren't they super expensive"? I said the tuition was ~40k/yr and she said, "well crap, that's less than I paid" sooooo.... 'laughing stock', I doubt it... Only time will tell whether they get their full accreditation, but I believe they will. There are several 'for-profit' PA schools, and they have accreditation, and they aren't 'laughing stocks' of the PA community.... all will be well, and this is another attempt to sway people against a school. Personally, I think the OP has poor stats and is hoping to use this to decrease competition at RVU...

Big 4 are not accredited by a single US body. The word accreditation has a very specific meaning which does not apply to any school in the caribbean. They are recognized for federal loans through loopholes and exceptions created for them by advocacy by the states. They are *not* accredited by a single american body though. (yes, I disregard accreditation by the health minister of granada. Gotta do better than that). The rest of your response... yea. That actually is a good point. Carry on.

 

[DocEspana]

http://www.saba.edu/saba/index.php/about-saba/compare-saba/accreditations

the ACCME is not an accrediting body. Its a sneaky little word play. The ACCM asks for self-reports as to what the performance of your students are and the faciltiies provided. They have been rife with complaints of straight out falsifying data for years. The issue is that the current set up for translating these international bodies is through the NCFMEA, which also does not accredit nor does it check in on accreditation standards. It simply compiles foreign accreditation as "looking for the same thing as the LCME" or "dramatically different". Which is to say "if a MD came from there, could we honestly expect them to be trained in the same topics as a US MD".

Its a big faux pas over here (US medical world) to ever equate the NCFMEA which is simply a checklist, or the ACCM, which does not do any of its own inspections and handles things mostly "on the honor of the health minister", with the LCME which is well known for being really critical and picky with their requirements.

I dont think this means these schools are crocks or terrible. But there is nothing resembling the formal accreditation process we know and there is not a single US organization involved in the accreditation as the AACM is entirely foreign and the NCFMEA is simply a yes or no checklist (do you look for this? yes? no?) and a compiling of the results of that checklist.

 

[fiznat]

OP banned for this post?? I thought there was no TOS violation, and it seems to be an interesting discussion at least...

 

[JaggerPlate]

Can the mods who banned AOA provide any justification as to why? I'm not looking for any inappropriate information here, but I think it's kind of important as to why - was it someone else with the same IP address who was previously banned for bashing RVU? Was it because they were being offensive or trying to flame, but technically the claims couldn't be dis-proven (bad science, I know), someone with another active SDN screenname, etc???