- Joined
- Oct 15, 2011
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All the haters need to relax.
It is the first match for the school.
Congrats guys- you should all be very proud.
All the haters need to relax.
It is the first match for the school.
Congrats guys- you should all be very proud.
I just checked with our assistant director of admissions (I'm an ambassador at RVU) who consulted our registrar, and there are 127 2012ers who are graduating this May. They did start with 160, but there was 5-8% attrition for years 1 and 2 and some joined the next class (2013) due to academic difficulty/choice to take a year off for personal reasons, a couple transfers, a couple just outright quit really early on and there are a handful doing a 5th fellowship year and will match with 2013 next year. The 2 people from RVUCOM c/o 2012 that have not yet matched are expected to match somewhere in the scramble and I wish the the best of luck.
So it stands as a 98.4% match rate with the last two likely to match somewhere soon. To which I reply to the poster above me, WE told YOU so.
33 out of 160 is way higher than 5-8% attrition/didn't graduate on time.
That's >20% over 2 years...that number seems ridicurus to me.
You also have to figure there were probably others from the class of 2011 who rolled into their class.
This is their first match. No c/o 2011
33 out of 160 is way higher than 5-8% attrition/didn't graduate on time.
That's >20% over 2 years...that number seems ridicurus to me.
33 out of 160 is way higher than 5-8% attrition/didn't graduate on time.
That's >20% over 2 years...that number seems ridicurus to me.
Seriously. Bones DO is adopting the Caribbean school method of computing a match rate. Just don't count the people who flunked out, dropped out, or who had to be decelerated due to academic difficulties.
Do not liken RVU to a carib school; it is NOT compariable by any means to any of them.
Except for the higher-than-average tuition, private loans, for-profit status, high attrition rate, excuses for said high attrition rate, shroud of secrecy, nope not at all.
Oh, also the whole "claiming higher-than-average licensing exam scores and then posting below average match results" is a little bit similar.
RVU isn't this devil-worshiping degree mill that some make it out to be, but you can't honestly say that you don't see significant legitimate comparisons to offshore schools.
How is 45k higher than average tuition? Please enlighten me... Total COA (books, laptop, fees, insurance, test fees, tuition, room/board, etc) is ~73k because Denver's COL is fairly high... SOMA's tuition is higher...
How is 45k higher than average tuition? Please enlighten me... Total COA (books, laptop, fees, insurance, test fees, tuition, room/board, etc) is ~73k because Denver's COL is fairly high... SOMA's tuition is higher...
The tuition is only slightly higher than the average DO school.. Private loans will vanish when regional accreditation is achieved. The perceived high attrition was cited and explained already. The board scores are legitimate;they were verified by COCA as part of the accreditation process. The match results not being up to some SDNer's standards, like many of their otherar guments, imaginary. The first match is never a schools best, but again I'm proud of our class of 2012. There is no shroud of secrecy, stop being melodramatic. I know it gets boring out in Erie, but come on, surely you can find something more productive with your time than comment on things your know so little about. Or are you at the LECOM that doesn't actually have an anatomylab?
Per AACOM's table, the mean private school OOS tuition is just shy of $41,000. RVU charges $43,384. This is also higher than the mean OOS tuition for all DO schools at $42,230. It may not be hugely above average, but it is in fact, above average, as I stated. I did not factor in COA, because that is not a reflection of a school's financial standing.
Problems with the calculation of attrition: you discount the people who left after the dean left. This isn't an illness or a family emergency or any legitimate non-academic reason for leaving a school. It's a serious issue. You can tick and tack at the rate, but ultimately, a lot of people who started didn't finish.
I didn't say the board scores weren't legitimate. I'm pointing out that you are claiming high licensing exam scores as proof of educational excellence, much in the same way offshore schools do. However, in most instances, above-average COMLEX/USMLE scores turn into above-average residency matches. I recognize that this was the school's first match. I also recognize that there are a lot of negatives that stand out on the match list that you are failing to accept.
I consider a school that keeps its financial records secret to be shrouded in secrecy. Melodrama or not, even just the disclosure of records is important to the respectability of a medical school.
The comments about LECOM were a little odd, considering the discussion at hand. I have plenty of things to keep me busy here in Erie, my cadaver taught me quite a bit about anatomy, and I'm happy to be here.
I respect your opinions, and especially respect your journey through school as I recall reading your posts a few years back, but I wish you would be more willing to see reasonable comparisons between your school and offshore schools. Offshore schools charge more than average, have poor financial aid arrangements, lose a lot of students, lose them for many reasons, calculate things in the most positive way possible, tout high board scores, then match worse than they should given those scores, and exist corporately for the primary purpose of profit.
Like I said, RVU isn't the evil money-grubbing deathknell of osteopathic medicine that some make it out to be, but there are legitimate comparisons that a reasonable person can see with regards to offshore schools.
Can we please for the love of Dr. Still stop this nonsense of attacking schools This is getting to be ridiculous. Every school is a good school and will produce great docs. If you don't like RVU or LECOM or whatever other school, then don't go there. this is all subjective
It seems like a major factor in attrition is students dropping down a year, which makes the yield of a class go down. But doesn't that make the yield of the following class go up? I'm just making up numbers here, but the class of 2013 could have started with 150 students, collect 15 from the 2012 class, and have 165 participate in the match for a yield of 110%. This sounds like my ochem lab results!
Calculating the total match yield of any school's first senior class seems misleading to me.
It averaged 7ish percent per year as far as academic troubles. So 11 year 1 and 10 for year 2. So that's 21, and the vast majority of those joined the class of 2013 and at this point are on rotations. Then a handful transferred to LMU after the first dean stepped down, 4 doing the 5th year for the OPP fellowship and a a few quit first year (early on) on their own. So it does add up to the 33 missing bodies. The school does occasionally dismiss students, but they do have a lot of resources available for struggling students. Like anywhere else, it is up to the individual student to put in the work and stay determined to succeed.
I'll be honest and straightforward by saying that before this thread, I could care less about RVU and mostly regarded the institution as "just another med school."
...but this discussion is absolutely terrifying.
I don't mean to post anything personal or critical, but objectively, I think it's fairly well understood that graduating from medical school is largely a personal endeavor and the course of life will always throw a certain number of curveballs to a large cohort of people. However, I feel like an administration can't be entirely hands-off in the education of their students. Considering the grueling nature of medical education and annual variation, an attrition rate can generally be dependent on the (a)the quality of admissions standards or (b)the extent to which administration provides useful tools to aid in the professional development of their students. I don't know what average attrition rates are for other medical schools, but these statistics are alarming and uncharacteristically high from my own experience and if they are indeed truly high relative to other schools, I should hope for the sake of RVU students, prospective applicants and the DO profession that RVU administration evaluates its measures towards promoting retention.
Again, I don't mean to be overly critical but we have to realize that behind these numbers and statistics are people that have put at stake their youth and financial livelihood hoping to become a physician. Attrition is a legitimate subject for discussion at any school and it's very easy to dismiss the numerical value we see on screens without thinking of the people they represent.
I think you missed that just about every one of those students is somewhere, either LMU or still at RVU. One thing that is bound to happen is students transferring out and staying back a year. Normally these numbers are equal in and out, but for a first graduating class this may not be the case. I know at my school we obtained a bunch of 2nd years (I'm a 1st) and will probably give an equal number to the class of 2016, for zero sum. I think you can't really judge a 1st graduating class in this scenario.
What? That is something that is definitely *not* bound to happen and is one of those things that when they happen to more than a very small number if isolated students your school did something wrong and needs to nip it in the bud and stop it dead right then and there.
Some schools have transient issues with this. some have chronic. some never have it at all. If this is a chronic issue there is something wrong with the school (may not necessarily be the education. may be the safety net or simply poor admission choices)
Per AACOM's table, the mean private school OOS tuition is just shy of $41,000. RVU charges $43,384. This is also higher than the mean OOS tuition for all DO schools at $42,230. It may not be hugely above average, but it is in fact, above average, as I stated. I did not factor in COA, because that is not a reflection of a school's financial standing.
Problems with the calculation of attrition: you discount the people who left after the dean left. This isn't an illness or a family emergency or any legitimate non-academic reason for leaving a school. It's a serious issue. You can tick and tack at the rate, but ultimately, a lot of people who started didn't finish.
I didn't say the board scores weren't legitimate. I'm pointing out that you are claiming high licensing exam scores as proof of educational excellence, much in the same way offshore schools do. However, in most instances, above-average COMLEX/USMLE scores turn into above-average residency matches. I recognize that this was the school's first match. I also recognize that there are a lot of negatives that stand out on the match list that you are failing to accept.
I consider a school that keeps its financial records secret to be shrouded in secrecy. Melodrama or not, even just the disclosure of records is important to the respectability of a medical school.
The comments about LECOM were a little odd, considering the discussion at hand. I have plenty of things to keep me busy here in Erie, my cadaver taught me quite a bit about anatomy, and I'm happy to be here.
I respect your opinions, and especially respect your journey through school as I recall reading your posts a few years back, but I wish you would be more willing to see reasonable comparisons between your school and offshore schools. Offshore schools charge more than average, have poor financial aid arrangements, lose a lot of students, lose them for many reasons, calculate things in the most positive way possible, tout high board scores, then match worse than they should given those scores, and exist corporately for the primary purpose of profit.
Like I said, RVU isn't the evil money-grubbing deathknell of osteopathic medicine that some make it out to be, but there are legitimate comparisons that a reasonable person can see with regards to offshore schools.
Incorrect. Match rate at RVU and everywhere else state side is simply# that match prescramble divided by total # that entered the match. Match and attrition are two distinct things. I agree if you look at 127 graduating / 160 that started it looks a little off-putting but I explained how that worked out. Look at LMU-DCOM's first match was 120/120 matched post scramble (which will be what ours will be soon enough) but their first class started with 150. So 120 graduated of the 150 who started. The very important distinction is that many of those who did not graduate on time were not forced to leave the school in either case, as is the case in the caribbean schools. Do not liken RVU to a carib school; it is NOT compariable by any means to any of them.
Oh no, its for profit. The football and basketball coach at the school I graduated from earn over 10 million a year combined. The president gets a few million too. For a non-profit, a lucky few sure are profiting.
Any update on the accreditation process at RVU? Congrats on the match.
Im not seeing what all the excitement is about. Outside of the 2 Ortho matches and the ENT match nothing is really that impressive. Pretty typical low tier DO school match list. The people at the top of your class are always going to do well no matter which school you go to. Whats really telling is how the people in the middle of your school match. Regardless this class went through alot of outside criticism and should enjoy their individual success. However, most people are still against the for profit model and nothing RVU students do is going to change their mind.
This is a naive question, but I am curious, what IS so different about the for-profit thing vs. non-profit? I seriously have never fully understood this point, after hearing about this school. Is it that the tuition they pay does NOT go towards the school, which is why it's called for profit? Or something else
And the tuition can be labile. If the school so chose, they can jack the tuition up to whatever they want. NFP schools have to follow tuition schedules similar to rent-control in New York City. It is illegal to raise your tuition more than a certain percent per year. Unless your a for-profit model, then you can charge $38,000 one year and $70,000 the next with only minor forewarning.
First of all, I would like to give a late Congratulations to all the RVU students that matched! They have been under the microscope from day one, and considering that they are graduating their first class, I think that this is a solid match list.
As for the detractors, I just have a few things to say. I too have been cautiously watching how RVU develops over the past few years, and I have to say, although I still have some misgivings, I am impressed with what they have done so far. Some have mentioned the lack of specialties selections outside of FM/IM/PEDS as a sign that the school is producing an inferior graduate. To those I would like to say that based both on the website and personal conversations with the school, I would have to disagree. The mission of the school, and recruitment focus, is on students interested in primary care that want to focus on community based medicine.
Without opening up another war about the validity and quality of RVU, I would like to encourage everyone to support the students in their chosen residencies and I look forward to the continued improvement of the match list in the upcoming years.
Mean MCAT: 27.3
Mean Cumulative GPA: 3.56
Mean Science GPA: 3.52
impressive. RVU seems to be attracting a decent applicant pool...
Dear Faculty, Staff, and Students,
With graduation behind us, and a new class starting at the end of this summer, many of you were asking about our current admission statistics for the Class of 2016. We have had well over 3,800 applications to RVUCOM for this coming year.
The seats are now held for our incoming students. Here are the statistics for the incoming class of 160 students:
Mean MCAT: 27.3
Mean Cumulative GPA: 3.56
Mean Science GPA: 3.52
(Please note: The MCAT score for our students is based upon their most recent entire MCAT examination. It is NOT a composite of best section scores from multiple exams. Some schools use a composite, we do not)
I look forward to welcoming the Class of 2016 and all the great things they will accomplish.
Dr. Dubin
These may go down by the time the class is finalized in August though.
I agree. There's a good chance it will like every other schools between now and the start date (students withdrawing to go to other schools including MD)
impressive. RVU seems to be attracting a decent applicant pool...
And there are developing residency options for people who want to stay in Colorado. I am applying to their EDP. My stats are competitive anywhere, but I want to stay in CO, and I have toured and talked to RVU staff many times. I get a little frustrated with people who assume that they are scraping the bottom of the barrel for applicants, just because they don't like the school.
Good luck! I'm applying here as well this year, just not EDP due to returning from Iraq last November. Hopefully we'll both be in the 2013 matriculating class.And they are developing residency options for people who want to stay in Colorado. I am applying to their EDP. My stats are competitive anywhere, but I want to stay in CO, and I have toured and talked to RVU staff many times. I get a little frustrated with people who assume that they are scraping the bottom of the barrel for applicants, just because they don't like the school.