S.C. mass shooting.. Dr. Leslie and family.

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Laryngospasm

Laryngospasm

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Anybody know more about this? He practiced both ER and occupational medicine. He and his whole family shot by ex NFL player. Terrible tragedy. My mind can’t help but wonder if it was over pain medication.
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My first thought as well.

A few grandchildren killed too.

This is why I wouldn't ever treat a celebrity or famous athlete - They are privileged and get their way. Look at Michael Jackson FFS.
 
SommeRiver said:
My first thought as well.

A few grandchildren killed too.

This is why I wouldn't ever treat a celebrity or famous athlete - They are privileged and get their way. Look at Michael Jackson FFS.
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do you ever have fear about this stuff in general? denying meds to a patient who just seems a little off?
 
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I fear it every day. But I also limit controlled substances as much as possible. Strong gut feeling is that these are probably not people who are on two tramadol a day. It’s one of the reasons I refuse referrals on high mme patients when possible.
 
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ThatSerb said:
do you ever have fear about this stuff in general? denying meds to a patient who just seems a little off?
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Sure. After many debates where I supported no concealed carry for doctors in a clinic setting, I now carry a .45.
 
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SommeRiver said:
My first thought as well.

A few grandchildren killed too.

This is why I wouldn't ever treat a celebrity or famous athlete - They are privileged and get their way. Look at Michael Jackson FFS.
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If I had to point out the one unifying characteristic of the recent doctor-killers, celebrity would not be it.
 
Agast said:
If I had to point out the one unifying characteristic of the recent doctor-killers, celebrity would not be it.
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Celebrities expect doctors to break rules. That's my point.
 
robellis said:
What would be it?
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Screenshot_20210408-123816_Chrome.jpg
 
Agast said:
Mass shooters tend to be male.

There's also a positive correlation with history of domestic violence for mass shooters.

www.bloomberg.com

Deadliest Mass Shootings Are Often Preceded by Violence at Home

An analysis of 749 mass shootings over the past six years found that about 60% were either domestic violence attacks or committed by men with histories of domestic violence
www.bloomberg.com www.bloomberg.com
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Only three mass shootings (more than 3 victims) between 1982 and today by women. The other 120 by men.
 
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Laryngospasm said:
I fear it every day. But I also limit controlled substances as much as possible. Strong gut feeling is that these are probably not people who are on two tramadol a day. It’s one of the reasons I refuse referrals on high mme patients when possible.
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Agree. It's rare that I'll prescribe a high MME dose. I just explain to the pts that I don't want to put my DEA license on the line and the high risk etc. I then tell them that this is how I support my family. That one usually does the trick. I haven't had anyone get angry at me for refusing to prescribe in a looong, looong time.

Great, now I just jinxed myself. Look for me in tomorrow's paper.
 
Pain Applicant1 said:
Agree. It's rare that I'll prescribe a high MME dose. I just explain to the pts that I don't want to put my DEA license on the line and the high risk etc. I then tell them that this is how I support my family. That one usually does the trick. I haven't had anyone get angry at me for refusing to prescribe in a looong, looong time.

Great, now I just jinxed myself. Look for me in tomorrow's paper.
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You make the explanation all about your family? That’s interesting..I mean if it’s medically indicated I don’t think that your family should have any bearing on the medicine that you prescribe
 
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robellis said:
You make the explanation all about your family? That’s interesting..I mean if it’s medically indicated I don’t think that your family should have any bearing on the medicine that you prescribe
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There's only so much risk I'm willing to assume. My family is not the reason I don't prescribe them. I don't tend to prescribe high-dose opioids for a variety of reasons. My family excuse is just to offset any potential anger directed towards me as things can get ugly quickly. I've experienced it first hand as I'm sure most folks on here have.

Don't get me wrong, like most males I do like to fight, but only in controlled environments and definitely not in my office and the family excuse tends to work like a charm.

If you want to do high dose opioids, have at it. If you send me your info, I'll be happy to refer to you.
 
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Just be honest. I say, "I don't practice pain management this way, I am not comfortable escalating your medications. However another pain physician may feel differently, you may always seek a second opinion."

And validate their feelings. "I do believe you are having pain. If you were not having pain I would not be seeing you in my pain clinic. This why I am offering XYZ treatment."

Be respectful and act respectable. Be firm but understanding. 99.9% of us are not going to get shot in clinic.
 
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So far police here say they cannot find a connection between the doctor and the guy. We will see as more evidence comes out though. Hard to believe he would show up at random persons house kill him, his wife, 2 grandkids and 2 HVAC guys. 2nd HVAC guy is alive but in critical condition currently.
 
RM38 said:
So far police here say they cannot find a connection between the doctor and the guy. We will see as more evidence comes out though. Hard to believe he would show up at random persons house kill him, his wife, 2 grandkids and 2 HVAC guys. 2nd HVAC guy is alive but in critical condition currently.
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He and his father had been patients of that doctor is what I read.
 
SommeRiver said:
Sure. After many debates where I supported no concealed carry for doctors in a clinic setting, I now carry a .45.
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Tangent, but why .45? Just most comfortable/time training with that caliber?
 
Disciple said:
Tangent, but why .45? Just most comfortable/time training with that caliber?
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Springfield XDs is just a great pistol, and I've shot more .45 than any other pistol cal.
 
Palliative Care and Occ Med sounds like a bad combo to me.

Speculation: high dose Opioids outside of CDC guidelines and possible adverse disability claim in an unemployed, bankrupt former NFL player who didn't play long enough to qualify for a pension.
 
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Can't take these incidents for granted. I have a similar patient. Ex-pro athlete, Career cut short by injuries. Concussions/chronic pain. Disability claim.
 
People sell the drugs we prescribe (or their families do). When we don't prescribe them...we may be hurting THEIR family. Or at least that is how it may be rationalized. We are nothing more than the dope guy for many of our patients.

This is a no win situation and I want legislation to take this off of our hands. Because right now...we are the bad guy. There's so much risk right now. As we are suppose to be weighing risk/benefit when prescribing these meds...it's becoming increasingly unlikely that they are worth the risk.
 
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j4pac said:
People sell the drugs we prescribe (or their families do). When we don't prescribe them...we may be hurting THEIR family. Or at least that is how it may be rationalized. This is a no win situation and I want legislation to take this off of our hands. Because right now...we are the bad guy. There's so much risk right now. As we are suppose to be weighing risk/benefit when prescribing these meds...it's becoming increasingly unlikely that they are worth the risk.
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legislation has helped us.....i blame it on the statute when i say they dont have cancer or RA so they dont qualify for more than a 3-5 day supply of opioids.
 
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there is difficulty in changing the mores to one in which immediate satisfaction is not the ends and means.

clearly, opioids can reduce pain, but the risks have previously been belittled, such that use of opioids is still widespread.

these problem cases should never have been started nor maintained on opioids before they come to our attention, and that slow change in prescriber mindset will be generational....
 
This is a very weird story.. and who shoots kids ffs just found out he was living with his parents who lived close the doctor.

Edit: Dr. Leslie apparently wrote angels in the ER as well.
 
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2nd HVAC guy just passed away, so now 6 dead from this. Still waiting on more info from police on exact motive. If it was opioids I am expecting an massive dump a thon since I live like 20 min from where this happened
 
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RM38 said:
2nd HVAC guy just passed away, so now 6 dead from this. Still waiting on more info from police on exact motive. If it was opioids I am expecting an massive dump a thon since I live like 20 min from where this happened
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Post mortem will show CTE
 
painfree23 said:
Can’t believe this is gonna be the excuse for a terrible human being doing a terrible thing.
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It can be part of the explanation without being an excuse. CTE prevention/treatment is something that should be worked and improved on.
 
Say what you want about CTE (I know it makes people have mood swings) But killing kids and random people working in the house seems extreme. I would bet this guy has had issues before. But who knows as we don’t understand CTE that much.
However from what I do understand this guy was pretty good but then had a nasty ankle fracture his first year which we know players never recover from. I would bet this messed his head up as much as anything. I strongly believe that being a person who has everything, or at least the promise of everything and then loses it is one of the hardest things for people to deal with. I have dealt with extreme loss.. not in the way he did but it was probably the hardest thing I’ve ever dealt with. And I had the ability to go on and keep making a living. My guess is the loss of pain medication was the last straw.
 
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Laryngospasm said:
Say what you want about CTE (I know it makes people have mood swings) But killing kids and random people working in the house seems extreme. I would bet this guy has had issues before. But who knows as we don’t understand CTE that much.
However from what I do understand this guy was pretty good but then had a nasty ankle fracture his first year which we know players never recover from. I would bet this messed his head up as much as anything. I strongly believe that being a person who has everything, or at least the promise of everything and then loses it is one of the hardest things for people to deal with. I have dealt with extreme loss.. not in the way he did but it was probably the hardest thing I’ve ever dealt with. And I had the ability to go on and keep making a living. My guess is the loss of pain medication was the last straw.
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The police have yet to explain why Adams, who was described by friends as “chill” and almost reclusive, singled out the doctor, or whether the two men had any relationship.

But Representative Ralph Norman, Republican of South Carolina, told Charlotte’s WBTV Thursday that he had learned from law enforcement officials that Dr. Lesslie had seen Adams as a patient. Sheriff officials would not confirm the relationship.

“He was treating him and stopped giving him medicine and that’s what triggered the killings from what I understand,” said Norman, whose district encompasses Rock Hill.
 
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Pain Applicant1 said:
Agree. It's rare that I'll prescribe a high MME dose. I just explain to the pts that I don't want to put my DEA license on the line and the high risk etc. I then tell them that this is how I support my family. That one usually does the trick. I haven't had anyone get angry at me for refusing to prescribe in a looong, looong time.

Great, now I just jinxed myself. Look for me in tomorrow's paper.
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I like this.. I don't care what anyone says. In big time pain management . One must have certain rehearsed lines, in order to survive!!! End of story.!
 
mjl1717 said:
I like this.. I don't care what anyone says. In big time pain management . One must have certain rehearsed lines, in order to survive!!! End of story.!
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Ouch!

"Turns out, health care is a dangerous profession – actually, the most dangerous profession. Health care workers suffer more workplace injuries than any other profession"

"45 percent of all workplace violence incidents occur in the health care setting"

 
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