Sackler vs TouroNy vs NYCOM

[Sephoraaa]

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Hi all. I'm trying to decide between touro-ny, nycom, and sackler. It is my preference to stay in Newyork but Sackler's, match list is inexplicably strong. http://sacklermedicine.us/match-day/

I feel hesitant going abroad but their list has me torn. Even their internal medicine matches are at Yale, Uchicago, Mt Sinai, and Case Western.

Does anyone have any advice or input?

 

[meliora27]

Yale historically has taken DO's. Not a lot, but if you're a great candidate, Yale isn't out of the question.

As for the Case Western match, it was at MetroHealth which is the community arm of CWRU. One of the current chief residents at MetroHealth is a DO, so again, certainly possible as a DO.

UChicago and MSSM are impressive, no doubt. Those are probably exceptions though, not rules.

 

[s5260205]

I would strongly advise against going to a foreign school, Israel no less. However, if you are still undecided, I would calculate the cost of attending the school in Israel and determine if it's worth going financial wise. You will be living in a foreign country for extended period of time, and it will probably be a huge cultural shock if you've been living in the US your whole life. Also, do you know Hebrew? It is my understanding that, while the pre-clerkship is fully in English, a basic command of the language is still suggested (but this is less of a concern).

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Hi all. I'm trying to decide between touro-ny, nycom, and sackler. It is my preference to stay in Newyork but Sackler's, match list is inexplicably strong. http://sacklermedicine.us/match-day/

I feel hesitant going abroad but their list has me torn. Even their internal medicine matches are at Yale, Uchicago, Mt Sinai, and Case Western.

Does anyone have any advice or input?

Sackler even though in isreal is a US MD school. If you are comfortable with being in isreal I would say go there. If you prefer DO or want to be in the USA I would recommended nycom. Sackler isnt the carribean. Also you would probably be more comfortable there if you are Jewish. Its not just like going to a religious school you will actually be living in a religious state. So while I'm sure they take non Jewish people I and Jewish people are very friendly I doubt you would be comfortable there if you aren't Jewish. You also should know Hebrew

 

[Mad Jack]

Yale historically has taken DO's. Not a lot, but if you're a great candidate, Yale isn't out of the question.

As for the Case Western match, it was at MetroHealth which is the community arm of CWRU. One of the current chief residents at MetroHealth is a DO, so again, certainly possible as a DO.

UChicago and MSSM are impressive, no doubt. Those are probably exceptions though, not rules.

Yale's traditional IM pathway is out of the question for DOs. They've never matched one in their history that I know of. Their primary care and Waterbury programs are fair game though. Knowing what I know about the place, the Sackler Yale match was probably in their primary care program, which is fairly IMG friendly.

Sackler even though in isreal is a US MD school. If you are comfortable with being in isreal I would say go there. If you prefer DO or want to be in the USA I would recommended nycom. Sackler isnt the carribean. Also you would probably be more comfortable there if you are Jewish. Its not just like going to a religious school you will actually be living in a religious state. So while I'm sure they take non Jewish people I and Jewish people are very friendly I doubt you would be comfortable there if you aren't Jewish.

It isn't a US school- it's got a pathway for US students, but still is a foreign institution that results in you having to go through the ECFMG, much like Duke-NUS or Cornell Qatar. The grads of these sorts of schools actually do stand a good chance in the match- Sackler historically matches over 80% in the NRMP- but they also have to deal with some licensing hurdles and aren't free to moonlight during residency in most states like a US MD or DO can.

I'd go DO, personally. Their match list is good, but still about on par with what some of the better DO match lists look like.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Yale's traiditional IM pathway is out of the question for DOs. They've never matched one in their history that I know of. Their primary care and Waterbury programs are fair game though. Knowing what I know about the place, the Sackler Yale match was probably in their primary care program, which is fairly IMG friendly.

It isn't a US school- it's got a pathway for US students, but still is a foreign institution that results in you having to go through the ECFMG, much like Duke-NUS or Cornell Qatar. The grads of these sorts of schools actually do stand a good chance in the match- Sackler historically matches over 80% in the NRMP- but they also have to deal with some licensing hurdles and aren't free to moonlight during residency in most states like a US MD or DO can.

I'd go DO, personally. Their match list is good, but still about on par with what some of the better DO match lists look like.

Sackler has a New York state affiliation so it match is more impressive I guess then a DO school. Class is only 63 students and they matched most of them. They got two derm matches. Isreal is an innovative country and you can get a great medical education there. We aren't talking about the carribean here.

 

[Mad Jack]

Sackler has a New York state affiliation so it match is more impressive I guess then a DO school. Class is only 63 students and they matched most of them. They got two derm matches. Isreal is an innovative country and you can get a great medical education there. We aren't talking about the carribean here.

Oh I know- like I said, their match list is as good as a good DO school (actually slightly better). Your chance of matching is only a bit lower than most US grads. It is literally the best foreign program in the world.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Oh I know- like I said, their match list is as good as a good DO school. Your chance of matching is only a bit lower than most US grads. It is literally the best foreign program in the world.

http://sacklermedicine.us/information/new-york-state-accreditation-letter/

I think its accredited as a new York school. It matches like a us MD school. Says in the letter they aren't treated as an international student. Treated as if they are from new York

 

[Mad Jack]

http://sacklermedicine.us/information/new-york-state-accreditation-letter/

I think its accredited as a new York school. It matches like a us MD school. Says in the letter they aren't treated as an international student. Treated as if they are from new York

Well, since the OP wants to go to residency in New York, Sackler seems like a great option. Outside of NY, it'd be a problem, but inside, it'll work out fine. Going to Sackler wouldn't have been a bad idea for me if not for the whole "horrible instability in the Middle East" thing. Israel is pretty safe for now though, might be worth giving a shot.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Well, since the OP wants to go to residency in New York, Sackler seems like a great option. Outside of NY, it'd be a problem, but inside, it'll work out fine. Going to Sackler wouldn't have been a bad idea for me if not for the whole "horrible instability in the Middle East" thing. Israel is pretty safe for now though, might be worth giving a shot.

Its actually an interesting discussion. Living in isreal just for US MD? Outside of NY its fine also I believe. It matched outside of NY and its still a new York US MD school I think. It would be like graduating from NYMC.

I personally wouldn't go unless you are Jewish and speak hebrew. Isreal is in the middle east but they consider themselves European. The middle east is unstable but the iron dome is there and the IDF is strong. Very interesting problem OP has.

What do you think to help out OP here. Go to isreal for a US MD or go DO? I would choose DO. @Goro @gyngyn thoughts?

 

[Mad Jack]

Its actually an interesting discussion. Living in isreal just for US MD? Outside of NY its fine also I believe. It matched outside of NY and its still a new York US MD school I think. It would be like graduating from NYMC.

I personally wouldn't go unless you are Jewish and speak hebrew. Isreal is in the middle east but they consider themselves European. The middle east is unstable but the iron dome is there and the IDF is strong. Very interesting problem OP has.

What do you think to help out OP here. Go to isreal for a US MD or go DO? I would choose DO. @Goro @gyngyn thoughts?

It's not LCME accredited. NY State gave them a special exemption way back in the day. Other states recognize LCME accredited schools, not state accredited medical schools.

 

[meliora27]

http://sacklermedicine.us/information/new-york-state-accreditation-letter/

I think its accredited as a new York school. It matches like a us MD school. Says in the letter they aren't treated as an international student. Treated as if they are from new York

That may be the State of NY's view on on, but I believe that to participate in the NRMP (match) Sackler grad's are still consider IMG's and require ECFMG certification.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

It's not LCME accredited. NY State gave them a special exemption way back in the day. Other states recognize LCME accredited schools, not state accredited medical schools.

That may be the State of NY's view on on, but I believe that to participate in the NRMP (match) Sackler grad's are still consider IMG's and require ECFMG certification.

This is kinda a grey area huh? Well there students seem to do well. Its 100% a viable option especially if you are from New York. If a current student from there wanted to explain to us how it works I would find it interesting!

 

[meliora27]

Sackler is a terrific school that places grads in some very good programs.

Sackler is also a foreign medical school and it's graduates are still considered IMG's

 

[Mad Jack]

This is kinda a grey area huh? Well there students seem to do well. Its 100% a viable option especially if you are from New York. If a current student from there wanted to explain to us how it works I would find it interesting!

It's complicated, and a relic of back in the day when NY had a serious shortage of medical school spots. Basically, it comes down to them making an agreement with Sackler to train NY students, which was actually a bonus for the state of New York because they were hurting for in-state school slots. Naturally, they wrote an exception into their state law to allow Sackler grads to practice as in-state grads (this part I was unaware of until today, everything else I previously knew) so that they'd both be able to easily match and have an incentive to go to NY state over any other state, since it's the one state where they aren't IMGs. It's brilliant, really.

 

[Mad Jack]

Sackler is a terrific school that places grads in some very good programs.

Sackler is also a foreign medical school and it's graduates are still considered IMG's

They have to match as IMGs, but in NY, they can practice with only an internship and moonlight as if they were a US grad. That's a huge bonus, which, when coupled with their excellent reputation in the state, really makes it a worthwhile option.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

It's complicated, and a relic of back in the day when NY had a serious shortage of medical school spots. Basically, it comes down to them making an agreement with Sackler to train NY students, which was actually a bonus for the state of New York because they were hurting for in-state school slots. Naturally, they wrote an exception into their state law to allow Sackler grads to practice as in-state grads (this part I was unaware of until today, everything else I previously knew) so that they'd both be able to easily match and have an incentive to go to NY state over any other state, since it's the one state where they aren't IMGs. It's brilliant, really.

Learn something every day huh? Thanks for the information though. So what do you think you would go for if you were OP?

 

[Goro]

With the instability of the Middle East, I can't recommend it, unless your Jewishness is extremely important to you. But if that's the case, then Touro-NY would be, well, safer. I think I'd take my chances on the NYC subway system as opposed to a Hamas rocket.

Hi all. I'm trying to decide between touro-ny, nycom, and sackler. It is my preference to stay in Newyork but Sackler's, match list is inexplicably strong. http://sacklermedicine.us/match-day/

I feel hesitant going abroad but their list has me torn. Even their internal medicine matches are at Yale, Uchicago, Mt Sinai, and Case Western.

Does anyone have any advice or input?

 

[Sephoraaa]

Those of you who mentioned the Newyork/LCME status of the school, that was very helpful! I sincerely thank you.

Safety isn't much of an issue. With the iron dome and check points, Tel Aviv is very safe and a vibrant fun beach town. I felt much more uneasy in Harlem.

I narrowed it down to NYCOM & Sackler. Nycom is a 20 minute drive from my parents house and I consider Long Island home. But Sackler's match list is undeniably good. Such IM programs, 2 dermatology, 1 plastic surgery, a urology, and an ophthamology from a class of 60 seems amazing.

To better understand the list: does anyone have any input on Northshore-LIJ hospital? I understand they are affiliated with Hofstra University, but are their residencies considered 'good' or mundane?

 

[s5260205]

I wouldn't look into the match list too much since at the end of the days it's your own step scores that primarily determine your chances of receiving an interview from residency programs. Given that you are so close to NYCOM, I would really suggest attending that school over Sakler. NYCOM is one of the more established DO schools with great rotation sites in and around NYC and sizeable GME programs. Coupled this with proximity to family and friends, you couldn't really go wrong with attending NYCOM.

 

[JimmyB123]

I think Sackler is a better option than NYCOM. Better residency opportunities especially if you want to stay in NYC. The match list is pretty darn impressive. Basically on par with any MD program.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Those of you who mentioned the Newyork/LCME status of the school, that was very helpful! I sincerely thank you.

Safety isn't much of an issue. With the iron dome and check points, Tel Aviv is very safe and a vibrant fun beach town. I felt much more uneasy in Harlem.

I narrowed it down to NYCOM & Sackler. Nycom is a 20 minute drive from my parents house and I consider Long Island home. But Sackler's match list is undeniably good. Such IM programs, 2 dermatology, 1 plastic surgery, a urology, and an ophthamology from a class of 60 seems amazing.

To better understand the list: does anyone have any input on Northshore-LIJ hospital? I understand they are affiliated with Hofstra University, but are their residencies considered 'good' or mundane?

LIJ is good but NYCOM is loosing LIJ residencies to Hofstra. Used to have some neurosurgery resendicies and have been taken back. NYCOM still has plenty of hospitals. NYCOM has a big opti though and lots of opportunities.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I think Sackler is a better option than NYCOM. Better residency opportunities especially if you want to stay in NYC. The match list is pretty darn impressive. Basically on par with any MD program.

I think it comes down to living in isreal for four years! I wouldn't want to do that unless I spoke Hebrew. OP do you speak Hebrew? I don't think its necessary but it would make it easier I would think

 

[Sephoraaa]

I think it comes down to living in isreal for four years! I wouldn't want to do that unless I spoke Hebrew. OP do you speak Hebrew? I don't think its necessary but it would make it easier I would think

I only know very basic words like shalom. But students have commented that the program and rotations are 90% english. If you encounter a patient that only speaks hebrew, the program is very accommodating and puts you on another case.

Ultimately, I've decided! 🙂

I'll be attending Sackler because I feel the quality of education is great and living in Israel (different culture, amazing weather, and so close to europe) is going to be a fun experience. And the tuition being $15k less per year is another added benefit.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I only know very basic words like shalom. But students have commented that the program and rotations are 90% english. If you encounter a patient that only speaks hebrew, the program is very accommodating and puts you on another case.

Ultimately, I've decided! 🙂

I'll be attending Sackler because I feel the quality of education is great and living in Israel (different culture, amazing weather, and so close to europe) is going to be a fun experience. And the tuition being $15k less per year is another added benefit.

Congrats. And BTW isreal considers themselves European. Good luck!

 

[AlteredScale]

I only know very basic words like shalom. But students have commented that the program and rotations are 90% english. If you encounter a patient that only speaks hebrew, the program is very accommodating and puts you on another case.

Ultimately, I've decided! 🙂

I'll be attending Sackler because I feel the quality of education is great and living in Israel (different culture, amazing weather, and so close to europe) is going to be a fun experience. And the tuition being $15k less per year is another added benefit.

Congrats on making the decision. I'm sure you'll enjoy your time there!

 

[cliquesh]

Seems like a better match list than most DO schools.

 

[670504]

I've also been accepted to NYCOM, and have applied to, and had interviews at, Sackler and Technion. I've been hearing that residency programs and hospitals are beginning to favor US degrees (even if they are DO's), over foreign MD's (even if they are from Sackler/Technion). However, when I compared the residency match list of the 3 schools, the standings were clear: Sackler>Technion>NYCOM. If it is true that US hospitals do, in fact, favor any US medical degree (DO or MD) over foreign MD degrees (even over Sacker/Technion), then how do you explain the strengths of their respective residency matchings? I really am torn as to which would be the smartest decision.

 

[s5260205]

I've also been accepted to NYCOM, and have applied to, and had interviews at, Sackler and Technion. I've been hearing that residency programs and hospitals are beginning to favor US degrees (even if they are DO's), over foreign MD's (even if they are from Sackler/Technion). However, when I compared the residency match list of the 3 schools, the standings were clear: Sackler>Technion>NYCOM. If it is true that US hospitals do, in fact, favor any US medical degree (DO or MD) over foreign MD degrees (even over Sacker/Technion), then how do you explain the strengths of their respective residency matchings? I really am torn as to which would be the smartest decision.

I'd like to think the DO bias will eventually fade with time, especially with the AOA/ACGME merger. It is very likely that by the time you graduate 4 years down the road and start applying to residencies that DO's will have an easier time of matching into competitive specialities. Having said that however, I have no idea how foreign schools like Sakler with a partnership with American schools will fare in residency match in subsequent years. Maybe they won't be affected, maybe they will, but it's always a gamble either way when you are an IMG.

 

[JPL8]

In a related question, how do you guys view the University of Queensland-Ochsner program in Australia? Like Sackler, this is also a reputable university in a developed country, with the added benefit of being able to return to the US to do your 3rd and 4th year rotations in New Orleans at Ochsner medical center. However, it doesn't have the arrangement that Sackler has with New York State, so their students are IMG's. The match list for UQ-Ochsner seems ok, but I'm not experienced enough with looking at match lists to judge.

Between a DO school like NYCOM, Sackler, or UQ-Ochsner, which seems like a better option?

 

[hallowmann]

In a related question, how do you guys view the University of Queensland-Ochsner program in Australia? Like Sackler, this is also a reputable university in a developed country, with the added benefit of being able to return to the US to do your 3rd and 4th year rotations in New Orleans at Ochsner medical center. However, it doesn't have the arrangement that Sackler has with New York State, so their students are IMG's. The match list for UQ-Ochsner seems ok, but I'm not experienced enough with looking at match lists to judge.

Between a DO school like NYCOM, Sackler, or UQ-Ochsner, which seems like a better option?

Coming out of UQ-Ochsner, you'd be an IMG everywhere. The only real advantage Sackler has are (1) deal with NY state and (2) connections. Queensland-Ochsner (and any other foreign medical school for that matter) does not have that level of advantages.

If you plan to practice medicine in the US, go to a US medical school. I personally would not attend Sackler, but if your goal is to live and practice in NY, it has its advantages. Its still not LCME accredited, and as a result will be viewed as a foreign medical school by any other state, but in NY it has that going for it.

 

[AlteredScale]

In a related question, how do you guys view the University of Queensland-Ochsner program in Australia? Like Sackler, this is also a reputable university in a developed country, with the added benefit of being able to return to the US to do your 3rd and 4th year rotations in New Orleans at Ochsner medical center. However, it doesn't have the arrangement that Sackler has with New York State, so their students are IMG's. The match list for UQ-Ochsner seems ok, but I'm not experienced enough with looking at match lists to judge.

Between a DO school like NYCOM, Sackler, or UQ-Ochsner, which seems like a better option?

I looked into it. Their curriculum is directed for Australian medical boards which means you have to somehow study for USMLE.