Safety Schools

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audiology

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Hey, can you guys please list a few safety schools? I can't imagine there being any given there are very few seats in every audiology program. Thanks in advance!

I was thinking Idaho, but they only have 7 seats )=

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I agree with you. I'm not sure of any programs that would be considered a "safety school;" the field is small and therefore the doctoral programs are small. So, although a program may have more lenient qualifications, there are few seats available - to the best of my knowledge, that is.
 
Remember most programs accept slightly more than double their expected class size so it's not as grim as it looks. Secondly whiile there aren't any real "safety" programs, some are harder than others to gain acceptance to.
 
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Other than Arizona, which schools actually accept double? I keep hearing and reading different things. :confused:
 
Id consider "UAMS" ("UALR/UAMS 'Consortium'") as a backup school...worst decision in my academic career.
 
Id consider "UAMS" ("UALR/UAMS 'Consortium'") as a backup school...worst decision in my academic career.

Is it that bad there? I'm applying and it's probably at the top of my wife's list because she's got a guaranteed job in the area but I am a little leery. I'll be making a trip down to visit soon. Any chance I could meet up with you and talk a little bit?
 
Do I detect a hint of sarcasm in that remark?

LOL no.. I have no knowledge about that school or program, so I suppose its a serious thought.. Maybe let me in on the secret! :p
 
Well, I must be honest, if only for the sake of those who wish to matriculate through a school and successfully complete the program.

I do not feel as though I have received the proper level of support throughout the time I have been in the program. There are factors involved which make this worse, such as:

1. Instructors changing the syllabus an untold number of times (in psychoacoustics this happened at least 10 or so times. Yes, I am serious) throughout the semester with no prior warning.
2. Have had instructors not keep sheculed appointments when I see them after class for help (necessary and EXPECTED in this program) with no notice. Their excuse was they needed to attend to the accreditation committee's needs first. Which brings me to:
3. The accreditation committee got priority 1 and students priority 2 in fall 2009, there is no doubt. This is horse, as what good is accreditation if your students are falling by the wayside and thus falling behind.
4. The program has nothing to do with UAMS other than the fact that the degree comes from UAMS. It is on the fringe of the UALR campus. As a UAMS audiology student you have more in common with Big Lots, Harbor Freight Tools, Radio Shack and the local bank than you do with UAMS. UAMS is more than a dozen miles away and you will go there only for the idiotic neurotology conferences (that all students are now required to attend and pretend to be ENTs) and class registration.
5. Students are required to attend all neurotology conferences as well as grand rounds. This was optional until last semester, as noone was going. School comes first, these conferences that noone gets any benefit out of (particularly first years that are just learning the ropes) come a distant ways behind. Students hardly have any time as it is nevermind going to these things that interrupt the normal flow of the day.
6. Registration and general logistical operation of the program is OBSOLETE. Registration consists of going to a large gathering of personnel at various booths all around a laboratory and filling out duplicate paperwork for UALR and UAMS (because of the "consortium"). When and if you exit the program you have to do the same exascerbating thing except everyone isn't gathered together & it becomes a scavenger hunt for departure signatures. This instead of getting a central computerized system that people have been using at other schools since over a decade ago.
7. Select professors (the first-year anatomy class instructor is a good example, if you are unlucky enough to matriculate here) are sarcastic bores. They are quick to bust your nuts and give you sarcasm when you go for help but never provide any semblance of support throughout the semester.
8. The instructors there are so discombobulated that many do not remember what assignments are due, what they have covered in lecture, etc. I'd never get tests back to study from, never have reviews covering work that we'd be tested on until after the test. This is rediculous and leads to people running around with their asses on fire trying to figure out what the hell they are supposed to do.
9. I'll never forget getting a "thumbs up" in psychoacoustics for a homework assignment, with no critique etc. and was told that it was "good to go". This, of course, until I get my grade back (a 70%). This is an example of laziness on the professor's part. I came for help and got no help whatsoever, and thus did not know what to review for the upcoming test....and thus failed the upcoming test. Domino effect.
10. Too much emphasis on **** that is outside of the curriculum and not enough paper and pencil emphasis. Running around to conferences, student meetings, grand rounds, NICU rotations and elementary school screenings is: (drum roll) horse ****. There is TOO MUCH going on and not enough time, particularly when the machine is a rusty roller vs. a greased bearing in operation.
11. No coherent expectation for clinical achievement. I was, along with my partner, almost fully clinically competent with basic audiologic testing. By ourselves, we did everything from TEOAE/TYMPS/pure tones/masking/sound field testing/basic vestibular rehab etc. etc. Myself and my partner did a LOT of **** and were bar none the most clinically able of all the students. Other people hardly did ANYTHING in clinic because their supervisor ran things a lot differently. I knew one clown that didn't do a pure tone audiogram until his second year. This goes back to non-coherence of everything within this program.

Hmm. What else? In any case I'll post as things come to mind but let's put it this way: I'm not here anymore!!! Go somewhere else, this place is a shambles. I'll see if I can post up a photo of the place for everyone to look at--it really is quite humorous with it being in a strip mall.
 
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holy crap and the program has accreditation? so where are you now?
 
Well, I must be honest, if only for the sake of those who wish to matriculate through a school and successfully complete the program.

I do not feel as though I have received the proper level of support throughout the time I have been in the program. There are factors involved which make this worse, such as:

1. Instructors changing the syllabus an untold number of times (in psychoacoustics this happened at least 10 or so times. Yes, I am serious) throughout the semester with no prior warning.
2. Have had instructors not keep sheculed appointments when I see them after class for help (necessary and EXPECTED in this program) with no notice. Their excuse was they needed to attend to the accreditation committee's needs first. Which brings me to:
3. The accreditation committee got priority 1 and students priority 2 in fall 2009, there is no doubt. This is horse, as what good is accreditation if your students are falling by the wayside and thus falling behind.
4. The program has nothing to do with UAMS other than the fact that the degree comes from UAMS. It is on the fringe of the UALR campus. As a UAMS audiology student you have more in common with Big Lots, Harbor Freight Tools, Radio Shack and the local bank than you do with UAMS. UAMS is more than a dozen miles away and you will go there only for the idiotic neurotology conferences (that all students are now required to attend and pretend to be ENTs) and class registration.
5. Students are required to attend all neurotology conferences as well as grand rounds. This was optional until last semester, as noone was going. School comes first, these conferences that noone gets any benefit out of (particularly first years that are just learning the ropes) come a distant ways behind. Students hardly have any time as it is nevermind going to these things that interrupt the normal flow of the day.
6. Registration and general logistical operation of the program is OBSOLETE. Registration consists of going to a large gathering of personnel at various booths all around a laboratory and filling out duplicate paperwork for UALR and UAMS (because of the "consortium"). When and if you exit the program you have to do the same exascerbating thing except everyone isn't gathered together & it becomes a scavenger hunt for departure signatures. This instead of getting a central computerized system that people have been using at other schools since over a decade ago.
7. Select professors (Atcherson is a good example, who will teach your anatomy class if you are unlucky enough to matriculate here) are sarcastic bores. They are quick to bust your nuts and give you sarcasm when you go for help but never provide any semblance of support throughout the semester.
8. The instructors there are so discombobulated that many do not remember what assignments are due, what they have covered in lecture, etc. I'd never get tests back to study from, never have reviews covering work that we'd be tested on until after the test. This is rediculous and leads to people running around with their asses on fire trying to figure out what the hell they are supposed to do.
9. I'll never forget getting a "thumbs up" in psychoacoustics for a homework assignment, with no critique etc. and was told that it was "good to go". This, of course, until I get my grade back (a 70%). This is an example of laziness on the professor's part. I came for help and got no help whatsoever, and thus did not know what to review for the upcoming test....and thus failed the upcoming test. Domino effect.
10. Too much emphasis on **** that is outside of the curriculum and not enough paper and pencil emphasis. Running around to conferences, student meetings, grand rounds, NICU rotations and elementary school screenings is: (drum roll) horse ****. There is TOO MUCH going on and not enough time, particularly when the machine is a rusty roller vs. a greased bearing in operation.
11. No coherent expectation for clinical achievement. I was, along with my partner, almost fully clinically competent with basic audiologic testing. By ourselves, we did everything from TEOAE/TYMPS/pure tones/masking/sound field testing/basic vestibular rehab etc. etc. Myself and my partner did a LOT of **** and were bar none the most clinically able of all the students. Other people hardly did ANYTHING in clinic because their supervisor ran things a lot differently. I knew one clown that didn't do a pure tone audiogram until his second year. This goes back to non-coherence of everything within this program.

Hmm. What else? In any case I'll post as things come to mind but let's put it this way: I'm not here anymore!!! Go somewhere else, this place is a shambles. I'll see if I can post up a photo of the place for everyone to look at--it really is quite humerous with it being in a strip mall.



Where do you go now?? If youre not there anymore?

I am amazed at how they received their accredidation-- Thank you for the heads up. I am done applying but good to know! Thanks
 
The less than honest students here basically rallied together during the accreditation process...noone wants to exit the program and go somewhere else/start over. Noone especially in the second and third years, least of all the fourth years! Everyone whispering that when they interview students we should all say how good the program is so that it will look good to the accreditation committee. I excused myself from attending that interview in the interest of avoiding their wanting to knock my block off at the end of the day. The whole accreditation thing really did screw up the semester. You had everyone from the director on down all stressed out on account of the fact that this place is a clusterbang. This isn't really a surprise given that almost the entire faculty has changed over from some years ago...at one point only one instructor was left to teach the entire program! No wonder everything is screwed up.
 
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I may as well post this up, being the overly honest and shameless individual that I try to be.

We all went in there with high marks and GRE scores, albeit to different degrees but overall on a level playing field. We were accepted there and therefore were able to prove our credentials--we all were there because we all belonged there based on past performance within the context of undergraduate performance and the propensity to do well in graduate school.

I came out of there with:

Lab: "A"
Clinic: "A"
Diagnostics: "B"
Instrumentation: "B" (missed the damned "A" by a point or so)
Psychoacoustics: "D"
Anatomy: "F"

Needless to say, the "D" and "F" classes were the classes with the "stellar" instructors. How does one go from the first day of class where everyone is a sucess and everyone is on a level playing field, having proven their ability over the last four years as an undergraduate, to an individual with the above listed grades? Further, how can this underperforming student have such disparity in their grades as listed above, particularly when they have stellar performance in the practical aspect of their respective programs? The answer lies in the support net the instructor provides the student. In my case, the answer also lies in the coherence of the respective class curriculum and how it is run.

When you study notes that get corrected (because they are in fact incorrectly written) with no exception throughout the semester, when you change dates and deadlines last minute continually throughout the semester, when you alter the syllabus a dozen times during the semester, when no support is given, etc. etc. it is difficult to say that it is a congruent curriculum that sets up a student for success.
 
Where do you go now?? If youre not there anymore?

I am amazed at how they received their accredidation-- Thank you for the heads up. I am done applying but good to know! Thanks

I am now going to another school in another state. I received no input from instructors regarding my performance....not even a mention of what I should or need to do. No mention of whether or not I need to make up a course or if I was on probation or whatever...nothing. NOTHING! I was ignored in large part by everyone in the faculty at the UAMS/UALR/Radio Shack/Big Lots consortium.

It was at this point that I realized I was banging my head against the wall for no particular reason and summarily left without having a certain direction in which to go from there.

I contacted a faculty member at one of the former institutions through which I matriculated as an undergraduate and am now pursuing a Masters degree in Public Policy. This degree can lead to a J.D. track but I do not know if I'm up for LSATS and law school just yet; we will see.

I have already aced my first mid-term (inter-cession) and no longer feel the extraordinary depression and lethargy that gripped me throughout the time I was at "UAMS". I have regained much of the sanity I was rapidly losing in the "consortium"'s school of audiology.

But, thanks for asking. Appreciate the thoughtful inquiry!
 
Glad to hear I'm not the only one from a less than outstanding program but sorry to hear that things didn't work out for you. A masters in public policy.......that's quite a differernt animal there. Good luck with it and think of the positives: (1) no earwax, (2) no explaining that you're a doctor but not a REAL doctor, and (3) no unspoken pressure to dispense the PREMIUM hearing aid line.
 
are you the only one who flunked out?
 
I do not know exactly what the others got, but during the semester I saw plenty of "F"s being handed around the room. Supposedly our class was one of the lowest performing matriculating classes insofar as the Anatomy class, as if this makes any sense. These two classes were the classes everyone strugged with.

I know when I left that some were concerned they would be required to re-take certain courses. This is the extent of my knowledge.
 
I would add that I was not forced to leave; I would not consider this "flunking out", as this usually describes someone that is administratively removed for poor performance.
 
If students can fail classes and not be kicked out of the program then it probably is a joke as you have said. Honestly your posts seem like alot of whining and kinda delusional. Had you not spoken to a grad student before? Nobody coddles you at this level as a matter of fact, alot left me to drown. Thats why its grad school! My roommate is an audiology major and her workload does not sniff what I have faced through my education after undergrad. If you couldnt hack it that, big lol if you think you are going to law school. Im not saying that this "program" doesnt suck, because it kind of sounds like it does. I do think you need to take a little more responsiblty and step into reality. Grad school is hard for a reason and the idea of fairness you had in undergrad should be tossed out the window.
 
If students can fail classes and not be kicked out of the program then it probably is a joke as you have said. Honestly your posts seem like alot of whining and kinda delusional. Had you not spoken to a grad student before? Nobody coddles you at this level as a matter of fact, alot left me to drown. Thats why its grad school! My roommate is an audiology major and her workload does not sniff what I have faced through my education after undergrad. If you couldnt hack it that, big lol if you think you are going to law school. Im not saying that this "program" doesnt suck, because it kind of sounds like it does. I do think you need to take a little more responsiblty and step into reality. Grad school is hard for a reason and the idea of fairness you had in undergrad should be tossed out the window.


While I agree that schools should not coddle you nor should it be expected to be an easy ride. I also feel that schools/programs should support you in anyway they can. If you are being a responsible student and playing an active role in your education then the faculty should respond to that in a way that is reponsive. If the faculty does not support their students that says a lot for the university and the line of professionals at that school. Plus it looks bad on them.. Becomming good clinical audiologists start with the learning environment.
Just my opinion....

:)
 
Janky: I did not intend my posts to sound "whiny" as you have interpreted them, as I am sure your post was not intended to sound pompous and arrogant (as I have interpreted it). But, since this is your sixth post, welcome to the Student Doctor Network. I am sure you will find many other forums here in which to carry this air of superiority and arrogance; if you have a propensity towards this sort of behavior in real-life, I'd rather you be crass in a forum than make others in real life miserable with this sort of behavior. By the way, how the hell did you find your way into the audiology forum? No doubt looking for trouble. In any case:

Though I agree there are several degrees of separation between undergraduate and graduate study, I also understand the differences between a department that has its **** together vs. vice-versa. I have completed my intercession at my new program and have a 100% thus far, finals being tomorrow...I have confidence I will continue to be successful.

I have no doubt that there is a high percentage of graduate students that do not receive the support they need at other programs. I also have no doubt that this enormous waste of human capital is rediculous and no way to go about doing business. Just because it is the "status quo" in this country does not make it right. If I had homework that contained proper questions and notes that were well-organized and contained proper information it would have taken some of the need for support off my shoulders as everyone would have gotten the information right the first time. You see, part of the reason that I felt I was so damned lost was not so much the fact that the faculty were not there to help---and they generally did not present themselves for such assistance, but this is another matter. It was the fact that the place is generally a haywire operation. It is sad that my current advisor in my new program, a former undergraduate professor, did more advising than my advisor at UAMS/UALR/Radio Shack consortium before I even had anything to do with him and his program. He did this, by the way, because he cared. Retired military, he knows the importance of teamwork; no man an island unto himself.

But, thanks for your input. As far as reality goes, get back to me on that after you sign some papers at the local recruiting office you insulting scumbag. I'll be giving you the "big lol" when your ass is grass in the great state of Iraq.
 
Hey Teucer, I have no doubt that what you are saying about the UAMS is true but what why did you decide on public policy rather than transferring to a different AuD program?

BTW, what you described with the mini-mall situation is reminiscent of what I had read about several chiropractic schools. Now that is a shady profession!
 
Chicoborja:

Well, I had little choice, really. I realized that I must leave this odious institution before it drove me completely insane and dragged me under both emotionally and financially; at this point, it was after we'd received grades (can't count your eggs before they hatch) & I knew exactly where I stood. Applying to another institution for matriculation in the spring (in audiology or any other program) was impossible, and if I left here for somewhere else in the fall I would certainly have to move out of my new house. Therefore attending the Masters program in Massachusetts, whose curriculum is offered both online and "brick and mortar" (traditional classes) was the obvious alternative for me. One of the professors in charge there, the one I have referred to in earlier posts, had obviously been well aware of my situation and knew that I needed an alternate avenue to explore after this disaster...another reason why, I have found, being honest and opening up to others can sometimes be one's biggest boon--if others know your situation and are in a position to help, at least they can reach and help pull you out.

Thus, I had an academic program to attend immediately after exiting my previous program and could continue using my veterans benefits and receive financial aid. Of course, I depend on financial aid at this point for my income, as I had to leave active duty to come down here and try my hand at this audiology business. Lucky me, my rating is overbilleted and in a sort of reduction status--and they are not accepting me back active duty. Finding a job here in AR sucks too by the way...

A good thing with the Masters with optional J.D. track is that I have background professionally and as an undergraduate with the material I'm studying, so it gives me a "leg up" from the position I started from with the Au.D. (very little background, all of two classes worth).

That's about it in a nutshell.
 
Teucer-

I thought my program was unorganized until you described yours! I do have sympathy for the lack of support you received, but can't we refrain from wishing others' to face possible death? I'm sure you didn't really mean that. I don't understand why this forum is turning into a battlefield.

Looking at your grades, it reminds me that Acoustics and Anatomy were the most difficult classes for my cohort as well. In fact they were the two courses that almost held people back. The difference is that my professors were well-organized and tried to help us as much as possible.

I hope that your current program works out better for you! Good luck!
 
I wish everyone to face possible death, particularly those that show no respect to those that have made these sorts of sacrafices...even more so that speak with an air of superiority over those that have stood in military stead for these civilian types. I wish only that we had the general draft in place still; there would be a greater appreciation for one's fellow man at the very least, and at the very most there'd be riots in the streets and tremendous pressure for political figures to cease hostilities because it would affect those of all classes in this country.

But, this of course has nothing to do with the topic of safety schools. Good luck everyone; I'm outta here.
 
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