Safeway denied a transfer prescription request

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Twentytwelve2

Twentytwelve2

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Hey everyone,

From California here. So, interest thing here. A patient wanted a blood pressure rx transferred to us so we called the safeway and found out they refused to transfer it because "it was a new prescription that has not been filled before." First time hearing this. It was also on a weekend so we cannot reach the doctor for the rx. Patient did not want to go to Safeway either.. this seems illegal. Denying the patient the freedom of where to fill their prescription. Btw it was lisinopril.
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Twentytwelve2 said:
Hey everyone,

From California here. So, interest thing here. A patient wanted a blood pressure rx transferred to us so we called the safeway and found out they refused to transfer it because "it was a new prescription that has not been filled before." First time hearing this. It was also on a weekend so we cannot reach the doctor for the rx. Patient did not want to go to Safeway either.. this seems illegal. Denying the patient the freedom of where to fill their prescription. Btw it was lisinopril.
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That can't be a thing in any state. Why didn't you push back when they said this?
 
Sounds like a noob that was confused. This (I know it’s stupid) only applies to c3-5 medications that have not been filled.

I found a great work around for this though - feel free to use my material. I will get the patient s permission and only fill 1 tablet, bill cash, and mail it to their address. Then I will transfer it wherever the heck they want it because it was filled once...
 
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Luol Deng Fan said:
That can't be a thing in any state. Why didn't you push back when they said this?
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My only option is to file a complaint to the California Board of Pharmacy. I did not have the time to do it during the day. Also, I wanted confirmation of this. This has to be ILLEGAL.
 
JustFillIt said:
Sounds like a noob that was confused. This (I know it’s stupid) only applies to c3-5 medications that have not been filled.

I found a great work around for this though - feel free to use my material. I will get the patient s permission and only fill 1 tablet, bill cash, and mail it to their address. Then I will transfer it wherever the heck they want it because it was filled once...
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No, it sounds more like an illegal strategy to get the customers to fill prescriptions at their Safeway only.
 
Twentytwelve2 said:
No, it sounds more like an illegal strategy to get the customers to fill prescriptions at their Safeway only.
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But why? Anyone who works busy retail would say transferring a Rx out is something that is not worth even a second of your time.

Is this a super slow store? Or - is there some sort of rivalry between your two stores? If it’s not one of these two things then it makes no sense at all.
 
Twentytwelve2 said:
My only option is to file a complaint to the California Board of Pharmacy. I did not have the time to do it during the day. Also, I wanted confirmation of this. This has to be ILLEGAL.
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Before you do this - I would respectfully call the pharmacy manager and talk about it. We all work in an environment where people could find all sorts of crap to report to the board of pharmacy to make your life difficult. What if it was a lone technician that sent this back and was confused.. “telling on them” should be the very last option
 
JustFillIt said:
But why? Anyone who works busy retail would say transferring a Rx out is something that is not worth even a second of your time.

Is this a super slow store? Or - is there some sort of rivalry between your two stores? If it’s not one of these two things then it makes no sense at all.
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It is a slow store. No rivalry- it is "safeway policy that started last summer but they are enforcing it now." I have spoken to the manager. On two separate occasions.

I am going to file a complaint to the Board that this is violating patient right to their prescription.

I was hoping someone from safeway would give me a rationale behind this. Or if this is some made up bs. I dont like the problem it is causing me and my patients.
 
Twentytwelve2 said:
It is a slow store. No rivalry- it is "safeway policy that started last summer but they are enforcing it now." I spoke to their "floater pharmacist" and their "pharmacist manager."

I am going to file a complaint to the Board that this is violating patient right to their prescription.
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Just my 2 cents - ask for the pharmacy managers supervisors email and ask them this question. Why threaten your peers? Keep this in house.
 
you can check the CA board law book, nowhere does it say that providing a copy is mandatory. It is considered a courtesy.

However, you can argue that the pharmacist made a decision that is deemed to be detrimental to pt’s health. But, not “illegal”
 
Part F is the CA standard:
https://www.pharmacy.ca.gov/laws_regs/1717_exact.pdf

They might have been cross-trained in AZ, where the law "used" to be where you couldn't "transfer" a new prescription. As far as I knew, CA never had that stupid restriction. However, the prescription has to be verified by the transferring pharmacy before it can be transfered, and depending on the system, that cannot happen if it hasn't been dispensed at least once.

Also, transfers are voluntary in CA. There is no implied requirement that one MUST transfer, in fact, there are pharmacies in CA that have a written policy and procedure that they do not transfer any prescriptions, and CA Board of Pharmacy doesn't go after them. It's not nice, but honestly, the times I've encountered that in my practice, I don't even bother with the transfer, I just call for a copy from the prescriber office directly. I hated calling mail order in particular for a transfer.
 
lord999 said:
Part F is the CA standard:
https://www.pharmacy.ca.gov/laws_regs/1717_exact.pdf

They might have been cross-trained in AZ, where the law "used" to be where you couldn't "transfer" a new prescription. As far as I knew, CA never had that stupid restriction. However, the prescription has to be verified by the transferring pharmacy before it can be transfered, and depending on the system, that cannot happen if it hasn't been dispensed at least once.

Also, transfers are voluntary in CA. There is no implied requirement that one MUST transfer, in fact, there are pharmacies in CA that have a written policy and procedure that they do not transfer any prescriptions, and CA Board of Pharmacy doesn't go after them. It's not nice, but honestly, the times I've encountered that in my practice, I don't even bother with the transfer, I just call for a copy from the prescriber office directly. I hated calling mail order in particular for a transfer.
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Calling mail order for a transfer is the worst
 
California law includes the following:

A pharmacist may transfer a prescription for Schedule III, IV or V controlled substances to another pharmacy for refill purposes in accordance with Title 21, Code of Federal Regulations, 1306.25. Prescriptions for other dangerous drugs which are not controlled substances may also be transferred by direct communication between pharmacists or by the receiving pharmacist's access to prescriptions or electronic files that have been created or verified by a pharmacist at the transferring pharmacy. The receiving pharmacist shall create a written prescription; identifying it as a transferred prescription; and record the date of transfer and the original prescription number. When a prescription transfer is accomplished via direct access by the receiving pharmacist, the receiving pharmacist shall notify the transferring pharmacy of the transfer. A pharmacist at the transferring pharmacy shall then assure that there is a record of the prescription as having been transferred, and the date of transfer. Each pharmacy shall maintain inventory accountability and pharmacist accountability and dispense in accordance with the provisions of Section 1716. Information maintained by each pharmacy shall at least include: (1) Identification of pharmacist(s) transferring information; (2) Name and identification code or address of the pharmacy from which the prescription was received or to which the prescription was transferred, as appropriate; (3) Original date and last dispensing date; (4) Number of refills and date originally authorized; (5) Number of refills remaining but not dispensed; (6) Number of refills transferred. (f) The pharmacy must have written procedures that identify each individual pharmacist responsible for the filling of a prescription and a corresponding entry of information into an automated data processing system, or a manual record system, and the pharmacist shall create in his/her handwriting or through hand-initializing a record of such filling, not later than the beginning of the pharmacy's next operating day. Such record shall be maintained for at least three years.
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There are two potentially pertinent sections to note. First is "A pharmacist may transfer a prescription for Schedule III, IV or V controlled substances to another pharmacy for refill purposes in accordance with Title 21, Code of Federal Regulations, 1306.25. Prescriptions for other dangerous drugs which are not controlled substances may also be transferred by direct communication between pharmacists or by the receiving pharmacist's access to prescriptions or electronic files that have been created or verified by a pharmacist at the transferring pharmacy." This indicates that controlled substances can be transferred for refill purposes but fails to repeat that when stating that prescriptions that are not controlled substances may also be transferred. A very conservative interpretation of this portion could be that the usage of the term "may also be transferred" implies that the same restrictions exist, and the separation in the text only exists so that 21 CFR can be cited as it relates to controlled substances.

The second section to note is that the information required to be documented includes "Original date and last dispensing date" which could be inferred to mean that such a date or dates must exist.

All this being said, I think that they are wrong, but it is possible to interpret the law such that they are correct.
 
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zelman said:
California law includes the following:



There are two potentially pertinent sections to note. First is "A pharmacist may transfer a prescription for Schedule III, IV or V controlled substances to another pharmacy for refill purposes in accordance with Title 21, Code of Federal Regulations, 1306.25. Prescriptions for other dangerous drugs which are not controlled substances may also be transferred by direct communication between pharmacists or by the receiving pharmacist's access to prescriptions or electronic files that have been created or verified by a pharmacist at the transferring pharmacy." This indicates that controlled substances can be transferred for refill purposes but fails to repeat that when stating that prescriptions that are not controlled substances may also be transferred. A very conservative interpretation of this portion could be that the usage of the term "may also be transferred" implies that the same restrictions exist, and the separation in the text only exists so that 21 CFR can be cited as it relates to controlled substances.

The second section to note is that the information required to be documented includes "Original date and last dispensing date" which could be inferred to mean that such a date or dates must exist.

All this being said, I think that they are wrong, but it is possible to interpret the law such that they are correct.
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But why would the DEA restrict the transfer of legend drugs. I think it is safe to assume that the DEA was addressing controlled substances only
 
So if an urgent medication is needed
JustFillIt said:
But why would the DEA restrict the transfer of legend drugs. I think it is safe to assume that the DEA was addressing controlled substances only
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Correct. The DEA is there to provide protection from drug diversion and abuse. On the other hand, the Board is there to protect the consumers.
 
How about the case where you have filled 5 new scripts, all are covered by insurance and all are in stock, yet the patient happens to be a mile or two away and doesn't feel like making the effort to come to your store. I had this occur and I told the other pharmacist that they had two choices, I can delete all the the prescriptions and they can get them from the doctor or they can call me back in 4 hours when we are not busy and I am not inconveniencing my real customers due to a patient's laziness or doctor's office stupidity.

As for legality, I do not believe my state has any regulations on requiring transfers as long as the pharmacy is not refusing to fill the prescription.
 
Dr Wario said:
How about the case where you have filled 5 new scripts, all are covered by insurance and all are in stock, yet the patient happens to be a mile or two away and doesn't feel like making the effort to come to your store. I had this occur and I told the other pharmacist that they had two choices, I can delete all the the prescriptions and they can get them from the doctor or they can call me back in 4 hours when we are not busy and I am not inconveniencing my real customers due to a patient's laziness or doctor's office stupidity.

As for legality, I do not believe my state has any regulations on requiring transfers as long as the pharmacy is not refusing to fill the prescription.
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Yea.... I dig it... however, depending on your reputation with the chain that you work for this could bring corrective action if a complaint was made.
 
Many cases if I don't get the transfer from the pharmacy.
I end up getting the rx from the prescriber themselves.
I wouldn't have thought about going to the BOP for this. Nor do I have time for it since I have many million other things in queue that needs my attention during my shift.
 
JustFillIt said:
But why would the DEA restrict the transfer of legend drugs. I think it is safe to assume that the DEA was addressing controlled substances only
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Please tell me what you thought I said, including where the DEA were mentioned.
 
Haven’t been in retail in awhile , but I thought you could only transfer refills. Not new scripts that were never filled. The customer would have to pick up script if from Dr. and bring to new pharmacy. If verbal order you took, then new pharmacy would have to call MD.
The work around would be to process Rx and get refill number and then transfer to new pharmacy . Law doesn’t say it has to be sold before transferring , just filled.
 
Stella14 said:
Haven’t been in retail in awhile , but I thought you could only transfer refills. Not new scripts that were never filled. The customer would have to pick up script if from Dr. and bring to new pharmacy. If verbal order you took, then new pharmacy would have to call MD.
The work around would be to process Rx and get refill number and then transfer to new pharmacy . Law doesn’t say it has to be sold before transferring , just filled.
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OMG if it was never filled, all Safeway needed to do was fax the script.
 
I think they should make a pharmacy law where a patient has to pay the pharmacist for filling his/her prescription regardless of it being picked up or not if the patient ordered the prescription. I have put in my time and resources filling your RX, I don't care if you pick it up or take the medicine, I need compensation for my work and time!
 
If it was a verbal order not written or faxed. I believe it has to be filled at your pharmacy before it can be transferred.
 
steveysmith54 said:
I think they should make a pharmacy law where a patient has to pay the pharmacist for filling his/her prescription regardless of it being picked up or not if the patient ordered the prescription. I have put in my time and resources filling your RX, I don't care if you pick it up or take the medicine, I need compensation for my work and time!
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LoL so basically everyone who does a transfer has to pay twice? Good luck getting them to pay when they have 20+ transfers.

That's like trying to get someone to pay for an item not picked up at Home Depot.
 
mentos said:
LoL so basically everyone who does a transfer has to pay twice? Good luck getting them to pay when they have 20+ transfers.

That's like trying to get someone to pay for an item not picked up at Home Depot.
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Only if the RX has been filled and put on the shelf. Basically If I RTS (return to stock) a prescription that a customer ordered, I want compensation for getting it ready regardless if it was picked up or not. I have wasted my label, my vials, my time on your request. I want compensation.

I don't work in retail anymore, BUT if i did, theoretically 😉
 
zelman said:
Please tell me what you thought I said, including where the DEA were mentioned.
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Your post was huge and I did not read it. I only assumed what you said. In any case it was not intended to be an arguement against what you were saying.
 
JustFillIt said:
Your post was huge and I did not read it. I only assumed what you said. In any case it was not intended to be an arguement against what you were saying.
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In light of this new information, I would like to change my opinion on the matter. Safeway should not provide you with transfers of anything aside from a single diflucan tablet, as any other directions for use may be too lengthy to hold your attention until the end.
 
Arizona BOP specifically prohibits just faxing an image of the script (e-script, fax, hard copy, whatever) as a transfer because you didn't assign an Rx number (https://pharmacy.az.gov/sites/default/files/documents/files/sps8.pdf)

Most BOP literally do not care about on-hold non-controlled Rx as long as an Rx number is assigned so that there is a paper trail.

In reality, there are so many *****s working at clinics (confuse Walgreens and Walmart all the time, not to mention confusing Walmarts that are 3 miles apart) that you're not gonna "win" by digging your heels in my area.

As for the DEA, I assure you if they don't give a **** about bad telemedicine Suboxone clinics they won't give a **** about you transferring on-hold controlled Rx. It's mainly your company you have to worry about
 
zelman said:
In light of this new information, I would like to change my opinion on the matter. Safeway should not provide you with transfers of anything aside from a single diflucan tablet, as any other directions for use may be too lengthy to hold your attention until the end.
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I know huh
 
The BOP responded. Safeway may implement their own policy to refuse transfers of non-controlled on-hold prescriptions. However, patient can file complaint for 733(a) obstruction.
 
Twentytwelve2 said:
The BOP responded. Safeway may implement their own policy to refuse transfers of non-controlled on-hold prescriptions. However, patient can file complaint for 733(a) obstruction.
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Dude - I love moogles just as much as the next guy (espcially in ff6) but seriously I have a problem with throwing our peers under the bus like this. We deal with enough garbage as retail pharmacists, we should not be taking shots at each other.
 
Some states prohibit denying a transfer if it has fills/is legal by DEA standards. I know Oklahoma is one, Texas is another (which I believe has a 4 hr time limit).

However, I'd rather ask the management about the transfer policy before trying to sabotage someone's career over refusing a transfer. Would you want someone to report you each time you broke a petty rule or had a clerical error?
 
Why doesn't California have a rule stating that transfers cannot be refused? Outside of a patient owing money to the pharmacy, there is no legitimate reason for denying a transfer.

By the way, reporting it yourself to the board is BS. The board shouldn't even respond to something like that. It's the patient who needs to file the complaint.
 
Digsbe said:
Some states prohibit denying a transfer if it has fills/is legal by DEA standards. I know Oklahoma is one, Texas is another (which I believe has a 4 hr time limit).

However, I'd rather ask the management about the transfer policy before trying to sabotage someone's career over refusing a transfer. Would you want someone to report you each time you broke a petty rule or had a clerical error?
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Yes - agreed. You would have to torque me really bad before I got the BoP involved in any exchange I had with my peers.
 
CA BOP would prob take about 18 months to send you a response that "we did not have sufficient information to determine wrongdoing but be mindful of such-and-such pharmacy reg to educate your staff"
 
CetiAlphaFive said:
No big deal, just intentionally breaking the law to save yourself a minute or two, right?
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If it's breaking the law then every pharmacy in the area should get in trouble. As a customer I tried to get one of those "transfer your Rx here for a $25 gift card" deals back in the day at a Kmart. Dropped my Rx off at CVS and drove to Kmart. The Kmart Rph said it was a new Rx, not a transfer, so it wasn't eligible for the promotion. But CVS still faxed it over to Kmart and I got it filled there. This was before I ever worked in a pharmacy.
 
Several complaints are already c
Sine Cura said:
Arizona BOP specifically prohibits just faxing an image of the script (e-script, fax, hard copy, whatever) as a transfer because you didn't assign an Rx number (https://pharmacy.az.gov/sites/default/files/documents/files/sps8.pdf)

Most BOP literally do not care about on-hold non-controlled Rx as long as an Rx number is assigned so that there is a paper trail.

In reality, there are so many *****s working at clinics (confuse Walgreens and Walmart all the time, not to mention confusing Walmarts that are 3 miles apart) that you're not gonna "win" by digging your heels in my area.

As for the DEA, I assure you if they don't give a **** about bad telemedicine Suboxone clinics they won't give a **** about you transferring on-hold controlled Rx. It's mainly your company you have to worry about
Click to expand...
DEA actually permits transfer of the original controlled prescription plus all the refills, but the State level can restrict this. California is a State that restricts it to only the refills.
 
Twentytwelve2 said:
Several complaints are already c

DEA actually permits transfer of the original controlled prescription plus all the refills, but the State level can restrict this. California is a State that restricts it to only the refills.
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Oh boy. Do you know the can of worms you are opening with that statement?
 
mentos said:
If it's breaking the law then every pharmacy in the area should get in trouble. As a customer I tried to get one of those "transfer your Rx here for a $25 gift card" deals back in the day at a Kmart. Dropped my Rx off at CVS and drove to Kmart. The Kmart Rph said it was a new Rx, not a transfer, so it wasn't eligible for the promotion. But CVS still faxed it over to Kmart and I got it filled there. This was before I ever worked in a pharmacy.
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"It's ok because everyone else is doing it"

Hahaha, if this preteen tier excuse is your mentality, you deserve the retail job you have.
 
owlegrad said:
Oh boy. Do you know the can of worms you are opening with that statement?
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I am aware lol. But this is sourced from the DEA's diversion website and the inspector from CA BOP. Can't argue against it :/
 
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