salaries increasing?

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kumar28

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It seems like theres a trend right now in salaries..they seem to be going up. Anyone else see this trend lately..comments?? Is this based solely on demand?
Also, how does everyone see the election affecting psych? Will both candidates do more for mental health???
 
Psych salaries may continue to go up, they may stabilize, they may go down. It's a pretty volatile thing at this point in time. For a lot of reasons ranging from scientific to political.

I wouldn't expect much from either candidate. It's legislatures at the state and federal level that are going to make the difference with mental health parity laws. If those get enacted, it will mean greater patient access, greater opportunities for reimbursement for therapy, etc. A good thing. The attendings and practicing psychiatrists I know believe the momentum is in our favor on this issue.

If anything, I would look to the candidate who would hurt us less. Universal health care will not be kind to psychiatry as a career and could easily destroy job satisfaction. Regardless of how you feel about universal health care, it is a rationing system. This cannot be denied. the pressure thus comes in the form of throughput, cost minimization, and greater access of care to all. I.e. spreading it around as much as possible, no matter how thin the coverage gets.

People who think getting reimbursed for therapy NOW is frustrating, will be even more dismayed when government utilitarianism comes into play. Med checks for all, and reduced access to doctoral level therapists (MD, PhD, or PsyD).

If we move to a more open system (what we have is NOT free market, not even close), mental health inclusions on policies may or may not be prioritized by the consumer. If McCain's level of choice is allowed, then people may choose limited coverage for psychiatric issues to save a few bucks. In turn, this will mean they're more reluctant to use the services of a full-fledged doctoral-level specialist. They may instead limit themselves to their PCP for med management and maybe a licensed professional counselor.

Science and current opinion on pharmacologic vs. psychotherapeutic treatment is in a pretty volatile position IMO. We had gotten to a rather complacent place with regard to psychopharmacology, to the point where anyone from any specialty thought they could treat mood disorders.

It's a lot more complex than that. And proper psychopharmacologic treatment is being revealed to be a little more difficult than 'take 2 zoloft and call me in the morning'. And even as more and more drugs are being approved for mood disorders and anything else under the sun, estimates on their efficacy are being revised, both in initial treatment and relapse prevention. Not to mention the building backlash against psychopharmacotherapeutics (probably more keenly felt in child than anywhere else).

In other words, my personal opinion is that the trend in increasing salaries over the past 10 years were based on a lot of factors that were very stable over that time period: the growth in psychopharmacotherapeutics, public awareness of mental health concerns, and of course, the shortage of psychiatrists. Almost all of those factors are destabilizing at the moment and it's hard to predict where the future lies. the only stable factor, the shortage of psychiatrists, could be made a moot point anyway depending on what kind of healthcare 'reform' we see.
 
My guess is that with the decrease in the capacity of Mental State Hospitals and the increased advocation to release more patients despite the severity of their condition we are seeing more recyclers in the ER. The number of ER visits are on the rise and require more psychiatrists to be available.. I am not surprised to see institutions getting more competitive by increasing salaries. Clearly the correct thing the states should have done is increase the capacity of their long term hospitals..... this is not going to happen since there are many out there that feel the need to push for less state hospitalizations. Despite the increase in payment I cant shake the feeling of "Too bad for the patients and their families".
 
Salaries are getting better for all docs, not just psychiatry. Even Primary care is getting in on the love. God knows they deserve it.

http://www.nejmjobs.org/career-resources/physician-compensation-trends.aspx

I (mistakenly?) put my name on a large physician recruiting website, that acts as a sort of clearinghouse for recruiting firms to contact me.

I am completely overwhelmed by the response. In the last two weeks, I've received over 50 emails asking me to either give more information or to interview at various places. Also, my phone is ringing nearly non-stop with recruiters telling me they have lots of psychiatry positions all over the country.

I had one longish conversation with a particulary personable recruiter and we talked about salaries. He said that they go off this thing called the MDG (?) and that's what hospitals base their incentive salary on. Internal medicine was around 180ish, PM&R, which I asked about for other reasons, was 220k, while psychiatry was 193k. They said to expect offers of about 10k less than this coming out of residency, unless you are particulary qualified or have fellowship training, are board certified, etc. Add to this the desirability of the location, the saturation level (NYC is the worse), and costs of living, and salaries adjust further. Many places offer the base plus production, which varries from 10% (unacceptable) to a whopping 90% (hard to find). Many hospitals or groups will then state, "we offer competitive base plus production. Our psychiatrists average X amount of dollars per year" letting you know what they basically expect, and how much they're making. These seem to hover around 225-250k...at least in the southeast where I'm looking.
 
how much of a role does practice style play into income though? That's my question.

I know some psychiatrists that do nothing shorter than 30min appointments, who make bank. Most of them only take cash.

On the other hand, I've been told that if you're going to take insurance, due to lower payouts for a 45 min psychotherapy session vs. 3 15 min med checks, you will be taking a significant hit.
 
Psych salaries may continue to go up, they may stabilize, they may go down. It's a pretty volatile thing at this point in time. For a lot of reasons ranging from scientific to political.

I wouldn't expect much from either candidate. It's legislatures at the state and federal level that are going to make the difference with mental health parity laws. If those get enacted, it will mean greater patient access, greater opportunities for reimbursement for therapy, etc. A good thing. The attendings and practicing psychiatrists I know believe the momentum is in our favor on this issue.

If anything, I would look to the candidate who would hurt us less. Universal health care will not be kind to psychiatry as a career and could easily destroy job satisfaction. Regardless of how you feel about universal health care, it is a rationing system. This cannot be denied. the pressure thus comes in the form of throughput, cost minimization, and greater access of care to all. I.e. spreading it around as much as possible, no matter how thin the coverage gets.

People who think getting reimbursed for therapy NOW is frustrating, will be even more dismayed when government utilitarianism comes into play. Med checks for all, and reduced access to doctoral level therapists (MD, PhD, or PsyD).

If we move to a more open system (what we have is NOT free market, not even close), mental health inclusions on policies may or may not be prioritized by the consumer. If McCain's level of choice is allowed, then people may choose limited coverage for psychiatric issues to save a few bucks. In turn, this will mean they're more reluctant to use the services of a full-fledged doctoral-level specialist. They may instead limit themselves to their PCP for med management and maybe a licensed professional counselor.

Science and current opinion on pharmacologic vs. psychotherapeutic treatment is in a pretty volatile position IMO. We had gotten to a rather complacent place with regard to psychopharmacology, to the point where anyone from any specialty thought they could treat mood disorders.

It's a lot more complex than that. And proper psychopharmacologic treatment is being revealed to be a little more difficult than 'take 2 zoloft and call me in the morning'. And even as more and more drugs are being approved for mood disorders and anything else under the sun, estimates on their efficacy are being revised, both in initial treatment and relapse prevention. Not to mention the building backlash against psychopharmacotherapeutics (probably more keenly felt in child than anywhere else).

In other words, my personal opinion is that the trend in increasing salaries over the past 10 years were based on a lot of factors that were very stable over that time period: the growth in psychopharmacotherapeutics, public awareness of mental health concerns, and of course, the shortage of psychiatrists. Almost all of those factors are destabilizing at the moment and it's hard to predict where the future lies. the only stable factor, the shortage of psychiatrists, could be made a moot point anyway depending on what kind of healthcare 'reform' we see.

hi, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/23/AR2008092302882.html

good things if they can pull it off.
 
There have been a LOT of people working on this for a very long time, both Democrats and Repulbicans. Many, like NM Sen Dominici were motivated by the plight of family members, others, like MN Rep Ramstad were motivated by their own journeys of recovery. Hats off to them all. :clap:
 
Lets just hope this can get past the Senate. THey have a lot on their plate as it is and have proven to be even more incompetent than usual the past few years.
 
Lets just hope this can get past the Senate. THey have a lot on their plate as it is and have proven to be even more incompetent than usual the past few years.

It has passed the Senate, but there is still some reconciliation thing. Really hope it doesn't get lost in the Market Bail Out.
 
It has passed the Senate, but there is still some reconciliation thing. Really hope it doesn't get lost in the Market Bail Out.

yeah me too. Last I heard it had only made it through the house.

Next up. Loan forgiveness for child! (although I have my misgivings about that one)
 
The latest from our local NAMI: (bolding my emphasis)

What Happens Next?

In order for the parity bill to go to the President, the House and Senate have to pass it in the same format. With Congress expected to adjourn by the end of this week or early next week, time is running short. House and Senate leaders must now resolve how to move parity forward - whether as an amendment to the "must pass" tax extenders legislation (HR 6049) as the Senate prefers, or as a free-standing bill as the House prefers. In either case, there is strong political momentum behind the parity bill and the legislation remains a high priority for both House and Senate leaders. Likewise, President Bush went on record in favor of the parity bill today as part of the Senate tax extenders package.


Help us keep the pressure on Congress to demand final action on mental illness parity legislation before adjourning. Call your members of Congress at 202-224-3121 (Senate) and 202-225-3121 (House) and demand:

NO ADJOURNMENT without completing action on mental illness parity (HR 6983) and sending it to the President,
PARITY NOT BE HELD HOSTAGE as part of negotiations over unrelated legislation - children and adults with mental illness and their families have been waiting nearly two decades for Congress to act on legislation to ensure that mental illnesses are equitably covered in health insurance.


Remind all members of Congress that:

Mental illnesses are real,
Treatment works - if you can get it,
There is no justification for a health plan to impose limitations or conditions on mental illness treatment that do not apply to all other medical conditions, and
There is broad agreement on a compromise version of the mental illness insurance parity bill (HR 6983), now Congress just needs to finish the job and pass the bill so it can be signed in to law this year.
 
Next up. Loan forgiveness for child! (although I have my misgivings about that one)

I think the free market is taking care of THAT one pretty quickly, as there's probably about as many ppl on the forum that plan on doing child as plan on doing everything else.

Now, as one friend put it, "interested in child" as an m4/pgy-1 sorta like being "pre-med" as a freshman in college. It's everybody! 😉

Loan forgiveness for geri, that would make sense.
 
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