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Salary negotiation

Discussion in 'Psychiatry' started by Doc1401, Nov 28, 2017.

  1. Doc1401

    Doc1401

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    Hello,
    Does anyone have data to support a particular median salary for 2016/2017 or something along the lines? For example, when the negotiation process occurs, it would be good to reference some actual objective data to avoid an inappropriate offer.
     
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  3. TexasPhysician

    TexasPhysician Moderator Physician 7+ Year Member

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    Psychiatry is too diverse to have such data be accurate and easily available. Best chance would be paying for MGMA data but even that is likely outdated by a couple years.
     
    GroverPsychMD likes this.
  4. splik

    splik Professional Cat at Large Physician Faculty 7+ Year Member

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    This data is irrelevant and salaries are variable by geography, practice type, setting, compensation model. Also why is it that hospitals and other healthcare groups always claim to have a mission of providing the best care, but don't want to pay more than the median salary? The median is a race to the bottom... These salary figures are based on small sample sizes and are used to keep salaries low.
     
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  5. Ahamis

    Ahamis 7+ Year Member

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    You said everything!
    That`s how I feel when I talk to different employers.
     
    QueenJames likes this.
  6. GroverPsychMD

    GroverPsychMD Physician Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 7+ Year Member

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    Best care rock bottom price for docs

    Fast cheap or good
    Pick 2
     
    QueenJames likes this.
  7. Shikima

    Shikima Physician 10+ Year Member

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    Don't look to MGMA, you can ask on here about your job offers and we'll best guide you on how to proceed. Remember, psych is in heavy demand and the pay must reflect this.
     
    QueenJames likes this.
  8. SeniorWrangler

    SeniorWrangler 7+ Year Member

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    I read recently that, in order to earn the median income, a doctor needs to be at the 60th percentile in productivity for his or her specialty... every doctor is above average.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  9. Doc1401

    Doc1401

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    Could you please elaborate? I am having a hard time understanding what you mean, especially the part about being at the “60th percentile for his or her specialty”.
     
  10. FlowRate

    FlowRate Physician 7+ Year Member

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    The 50th percentile is literally the median. Maybe you meant that the mean is 60th percentile?
     
  11. Psychotic

    Psychotic 2+ Year Member

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    where the sun do shine
    The Lake Woebegone Effect? (nicely done on the day Garrison Keillor is fired for sticking his hand up some staffer's shirt...)
     
  12. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist Psychologist 7+ Year Member

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    Somewhere
    Most likely. Although, both are generally useless unless you know the actual distribution of the data. Are they positively/negatively skewed? Are a relatively small number of people dragging the data in a certain way? Also, some salary surveys include people working part-time. In general, people are bad at constructing surveys.
     
  13. sluox

    sluox Physician 10+ Year Member

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    Echoing the poster above about how MGMA isn't as useful for psychiatry. Management will try and quote you a number based on MGMA, but the reality is that most of the psychiatrists in practice don't take insurance and are not working for a facility, and therefore the reported salary figures are inaccurate. Salary figures also tend to vary wildly depending on location and actual amount of work demanded. Posters here are fairly knowledgable about the rough translation of a job and rough reflection of actual RVU and collections on the hospital side, and therefore would have a more realistic assessment of whether a job is a "good job".

    As an example, 150k for an academic job, especially with significant research/admin time, is fairly reasonable, where as 350k for a typical 1 FTE inpatient/outpatient combo job in a community hospital in the Midwest with the usual 1:7 or 1:15 overnight call is fairly exploitative purely from a RVU generated vs. salary perspective, despite the face value salary differences.
     
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  14. SeniorWrangler

    SeniorWrangler 7+ Year Member

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    I edited it to include that it's 60th percentile in productive for their specialty.
     
  15. Doc1401

    Doc1401

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    Say the hospital in a rural area offers $250,000 base salary with some possible “quality practice” bonus of 40-60 thousand. What can be done to increase that offer?
     
  16. sluox

    sluox Physician 10+ Year Member

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    There are a few things to consider in salary negotiations.

    First, you need to know what your BATNA is. Google it if you don't know what that is. At what salary level are you prepared to walk? Figure that out.

    Second, get a sense of what the market is like. If this rural hospital is all there is in where you want the job, you don't have a lot of alternatives.

    Third, get a sense of what they can realistically offer. If this hospital job covers primarily Medicaid patients, a 250k offer will still imply a loss of 50k-100k a year. It's highly unlikely that you'll be able to bring the number up. It's possible that you can bring the workload down. If you want a raise, you should focus on that--that is, get more free time to work somewhere else on a part time basis that pays more. As a side note, hospitals of this type close down Medicaid driven psychiatric components ALL THE TIME. These individuals invariably get referred to either a state run facility with supplementary staff budget but very long waiting lists, or they continue on their progressively downward trajectory. But it's not your job or the hospital's job to fix this system at the moment. If this IS a state job, they often have a difficult time recruiting, but they can't raise their staff salary line because it's determined by the state budget. So jobs are often empty for months to years at a time. Nothing necessarily changes except that the patients to be seen will wait longer, and perhaps kill themselves (or, perhaps overdose on opioids) waiting. The government budget is insufficient and this problem is not in actuality an urgent priority by the electorate despite what may be covered in popular media.

    Think of salary negotiation as collaborative not adversarial. The hospital is looking for a candidate to help them achieve a certain goal. You are looking for a fulfilling and financially rewarding job experience. Figure out what their list is, and what your list is, and where the overlap/misalignments are. Figure out which misalignments you absolutely cannot give up. It's not just a matter of salary.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
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  17. Ahamis

    Ahamis 7+ Year Member

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    Medicaid reimbursement is similar to Medicare in few states such as Maryland.
    So, I believe that you may be able to negotiate a better salary in those areas.
     

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