Salary

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Righty123

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With the changing times and economic downturns, I am interested to hear (or read in this case) what types of numbers (salary) one could expect if s/he is starting off as an attending Oto at an academic position and as a member of a pvt practice.

Yes, the reason we went into medicine is for the humanistic aspect of the fields. However, it doesn't hurt to know what kind of compensation physicians in the field are earning. Do you guys think this number will increase or decrease 10 years from now?

It would be great is TheThroat / Resxn could give their two cents.

(I have done a search and visited the respective websites. Just looking for more updated stats.)

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With the changing times and economic downturns, I am interested to hear (or read in this case) what types of numbers (salary) one could expect if s/he is starting off as an attending Oto at an academic position and as a member of a pvt practice.

Yes, the reason we went into medicine is for the humanistic aspect of the fields. However, it doesn't hurt to know what kind of compensation physicians in the field are earning. Do you guys think this number will increase or decrease 10 years from now?

It would be great is TheThroat / Resxn could give their two cents.

(I have done a search and visited the respective websites. Just looking for more updated stats.)

I don't really know what private practice people make starting...to be honest, I don't know what the income potential is either. I looked at one private practice job, and as a fellowship trained BC oto, they offered me $345K. That was in central Ohio.

For academics, it was $180-$200 midwest, $190-$200 east coast. One of my friends who was also in the same fellowship was offered around $250 for California.

Now, for academics, incentives do matter. At academic centers, many of them are starting to lower the base salary and give incentives for productivity. This is based on patient load and income. It's complex, but incentives can range tremendously.
 
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... incentives can range tremendously.

This isn't for Oto, but I know some places have incentives for how many papers you publish/submit. I can imagine a great spectrum of incentives put into place in academia.
 
I'm not sure what the Oto numbers would be, but I do see some significant trends. Since 1986, most MD's would say that their take home in today's dollars is 10-13% less than it was then. Unless something significantly changes, that trend will continue.
 
I'm not sure what the Oto numbers would be, but I do see some significant trends. Since 1986, most MD's would say that their take home in today's dollars is 10-13% less than it was then. Unless something significantly changes, that trend will continue.

...and they are working a helluva lot harder to keep the loss to that low %. Physicians are the only class of professionals who have seen their real incomes decline over the past decade.
 
...yet per capita cost continues to skyrocket. Patients and physicians are losing.
 
...and they are working a helluva lot harder to keep the loss to that low %. Physicians are the only class of professionals who have seen their real incomes decline over the past decade.
Yep, what other industry have you seen a yearly decline with simultaneous increase in demand for production in the manner we see with healthcare. What other industry have we seen an arbitrary 20% salary cut in this manner... without cuts in service?
...yet per capita cost continues to skyrocket. Patients and physicians are losing.
You make ~this statement in the other thread. I am not sure what you are basing this on or where you draw these conclusions? Yes, there is plenty of room for improvement. Just not sure about your "per capita" extrapolations/references.

Instead of looking at a gross number, i.e. per capita, consider what might be available at that expenditure. Say we pay more per PCP then in Canada. Is there a trade off for that discount in ... maybe delay in care (i.e. "access to care")? Say we pay more oncologic surgeon and/or oncologists and/or treatment is there a trade-off in survival? Do you have some conversion as to what that trade-off should be? For example, if we pay double for cancer care, do you expect double the survival rate or is a 1, 2, 5, 10% improved survival acceptable? I dare say that most of my cancer patients would mortgage their house for a 2% increase in their chance of survival. These questions are fairly rhetorical and not seeking answers. Rather, I hope they provide you with an additional manner of viewing this issue.

In the USA, we deploy greater amounts of technology per patient then is even available abroad. We provide more "hail Mary" interventions. Our patients are covered ealry for even the basic things such as Pap smears. Our cancer survival is actually better. How long does it take you to get a PCP and/or be seen by a PCP? (in some countries there can be a several years wait for a PCP... to be assigned!) If you herniate a lumbar disk.... how long do you think it will take you to be seen by a physician... PCP, ortho- or neuro-spine? How long do you think you will wait for an MRI? If you are 75, do you think you will get access to hip and/or knee replacement abroad? How long will you have to wait? etc...?

I know you have a beef with business administrators and executives. What about the malpractice issue... small detail.You are training to be a physician (aka scientist). I encourage you to think hard about your conclusions and on what numbers you base them and who generated these numbers? How were they generated? i.e. our infant mortality numbers includes infants/births that are not even counted and/or treated abroad in numerous countries....

Keep in mind the basic principle of "voting with your feet". When poled, the vast majority interested in relocating want to relocate to USA. When looked at, significant foreigners, Europeans, Canadians, etc..... travel to the USA for their care. Aside from wealthy, hollywood, artist types, that refuse standard of care cancer therapy and place their hair at higher priority to their life/treatment until their disease is widely metastatic, I don't know of many folks rushing to Europe for cancer care.

JAD
 
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What are the average salaries for the various subspecialties of ENT (specifically, Rhinology)? I can't find much data on it.
 
...and they are working a helluva lot harder to keep the loss to that low %. Physicians are the only class of professionals who have seen their real incomes decline over the past decade.
Lawyers have taken a real beating as well.
 
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What is a rhinologist? I'm not in ENT, just curious. Someone who only does the nose part? Also FL has a horrible malpractice environment with tons of lame malpractice lawyers, so compensation there is typically higher.

Sinus disease and anterior skull base
 
Lawyers' decline is a more recent phenomenon, having occurred largely after 2009 (when that post was written). ;)
:eek: I didn't even notice this was a necrobumped thread. :eek:
awkward-pics-8-1.gif
 
Here is what I know....

Academics- starting in my region of the country. 175-190K. Highest salary at our institution was 400K. Most were below that with bonus incentives.

Private practice- starting anywhere from 185- 250K. Those with lower starting typically have lower bonus thresholds. All together most ENTs in their first couple of years make 230-250 total, averaged after bonuses. Once someone is fully established and busy- taking 400 home is very doable. Surprisingly many do far better. Average in my area is probably between 400-600K take home. With the development of in office balloon sinuplasty - some are clearing far more (1mil+). Now, keep in mind Im not speaking for the entire country and no one knows what will happen in the years to come. Most are expecting a decline in reimbursements. I have heard numbers around 30% decline. Well lets say you typically collect 1 mil and your overhead is 400K. You would instead collect 700-400= 300K still pretty damn good.
 
Here is what I know....

Academics- starting in my region of the country. 175-190K. Highest salary at our institution was 400K. Most were below that with bonus incentives.

Private practice- starting anywhere from 185- 250K. Those with lower starting typically have lower bonus thresholds. All together most ENTs in their first couple of years make 230-250 total, averaged after bonuses. Once someone is fully established and busy- taking 400 home is very doable. Surprisingly many do far better. Average in my area is probably between 400-600K take home. With the development of in office balloon sinuplasty - some are clearing far more (1mil+). Now, keep in mind Im not speaking for the entire country and no one knows what will happen in the years to come. Most are expecting a decline in reimbursements. I have heard numbers around 30% decline. Well lets say you typically collect 1 mil and your overhead is 400K. You would instead collect 700-400= 300K still pretty damn good.

Where are you getting your numbers? Also, do you think they are skewed as people that are making WELL above the reported values are hopefully not going to run around reporting their incomes on salary polls they get in the mail? This is something I'm legitimately interested in as I know many, many ENT physicians whose salaries in no way line up with the poll salary reports everyone cites as reality. Same thing for ortho etc.
 
Where are you getting your numbers? Also, do you think they are skewed as people that are making WELL above the reported values are hopefully not going to run around reporting their incomes on salary polls they get in the mail? This is something I'm legitimately interested in as I know many, many ENT physicians whose salaries in no way line up with the poll salary reports everyone cites as reality. Same thing for ortho etc.
Most reported salaries are not done by the physician - they are done by administration who trade that data for survey data.
 
Salary will vary be region as well. For academics, it will depend on what methodology is used: MGMA, AAMC, FPSC. It will also depend on your academic rank. Many will use three years of averaged salary data to come up with payments. Some base salary on collections, others on RVUs and still others based on a combination of the two. Also depends upon the payer mix.

Sent via mobile device.
 
Best way to find out, call an accountant and ask what the guys he works for average without names.
 
My numbers are based on what people in our practice are doing and from others in the area telling me what the collect, take home etc. I have always assumed the reported numbers on sites like MGMA are low due to the large variations in practice types. There are many people out there that don't do surgery or only do things like tubes and tonsils. Some are very heavy surgical and make much more. As stated above, there are large variations depending on location and practice type- which i would believe results in lower over all averages.
 
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