Saluting when not in uniform

[DD214_DOC]

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Stupid question. I remember from my NROTC days that unless you're in uniform and wearing a cover, you don't salute. Someone told me it's different in the Army so I want to check. Couple scenarios

1) Rotating on a military base as a civilian, not wearing uniform. Show my mil ID to the uniformed gate guard who salutes me. What should I do?

2) Walking in civilian attire into the hospital. About to pass by a General and his CSM. I just said, "Hi". Someone said I still should have saluted? I remember you don't when not in uniform.

 

[teacherman84]

Stupid question. I remember from my NROTC days that unless you're in uniform and wearing a cover, you don't salute. Someone told me it's different in the Army so I want to check. Couple scenarios

1) Rotating on a military base as a civilian, not wearing uniform. Show my mil ID to the uniformed gate guard who salutes me. What should I do?

2) Walking in civilian attire into the hospital. About to pass by a General and his CSM. I just said, "Hi". Someone said I still should have saluted? I remember you don't when not in uniform.

You salute back to the gate guard and you aren't obligated to salute a General if you're not in uniform.

 

[GeoLeoX]

Stupid question. I remember from my NROTC days that unless you're in uniform and wearing a cover, you don't salute. Someone told me it's different in the Army so I want to check. Couple scenarios

1) Rotating on a military base as a civilian, not wearing uniform. Show my mil ID to the uniformed gate guard who salutes me. What should I do?

2) Walking in civilian attire into the hospital. About to pass by a General and his CSM. I just said, "Hi". Someone said I still should have saluted? I remember you don't when not in uniform.

Often enlisted folks in IPFU (PT) will salute even without cover if you are in uniform.

In scenario one you should return the salute. It's the courteous thing to do.

In scenario two you should address a general as "general", not "sir" or "ma'am" - something along the lines of "Good Morning, General", etc. it doesn't flow as easily as "good morning, sir" or "ma'am", but you should still do it. Just saying "hi" is probably not a good idea. Inside most hospitals is a "no cover/no salute" on a regular basis. There is always room for ceremony and there's a different set of rules for that.

 

[Mace1370]

Often enlisted folks in IPFU (PT) will salute even without cover if you are in uniform.

In scenario one you should return the salute. It's the courteous thing to do.

In scenario two you should address a general as "general", not "sir" or "ma'am" - something along the lines of "Good Morning, General", etc. it doesn't flow as easily as "good morning, sir" or "ma'am", but you should still do it. Just saying "hi" is probably not a good idea. Inside most hospitals is a "no cover/no salute" on a regular basis. There is always room for ceremony and there's a different set of rules for that.

Wait, really? I was under the impression that you always referred to people who have a higher rank than you as "sir" and only called someone by rank if they are lower rank than you.

 

[ftrflyr29]

Wait, really? I was under the impression that you always referred to people who have a higher rank than you as "sir" and only called someone by rank if they are lower rank than you.

Flag rank (Generals and Admirals, i.e. those with stars) in the USN / USMC are typically addressed by their rank for the first greeting of the day. So....."Good morning, General" is the first greeting of the day and then is followed by "Good morning, sir," for the remainder of the day. Anyone else of higher rank can be addressed as "sir." Don't forget to say "ma'am" if it's a female, but you will undoubtedly address more than one female senior ranking officer as, "sir." Do NOT salute when out of uniform in the Navy / USMC or indoors unless you are covered under arms.

May be different for Army / AF.

 

[Jolie South]

For AF, salute back to the guy at the gate if they salute you. You look like an ass leaving them hanging otherwise. Or so said the folks at COT.

Otherwise, no saluting out of uniform or indoors.

I don't remember at what rank the "Good morning, Rank" occurs, but I definitely know that a general would apply.

 

[J-Rad]

A salute by a person out of uniform to a recognized superior officer (in or out of uniform) is optional. This is (frequently unused) general etiquette in the Army/AF but I suspect the option exists for Navy/Marines as well (I have to confirm). Another optional-salute scenario while in civilian attire is during the national anthem or as a flag passes on display (i.e. parade). This is a new statute in the law as of a few years ago.

And I agree, it is a courtesy to return the gate guard salute.

As above, General and Flag officers are referred to by rank initially.

 

[backrow]

There's a reason there are uniform regulations, people should read them more often as I recently discovered some interesting pieces I had 'forgotten'

This information is Navy specific only:

1)Salute when covered and outdoors. (you would only wear cover inside if you are on duty or some other specific situations)
2)Do not salute while in civilian gear / PT gear. AF/Army salute in PT gear
3)If in uniform while driving you shall do so while covered. If there is a passenger in the car, the passenger shall return the salute. If you are stopped (eg at a gate) you should return the salute as well.
4)The Flag Code was recently amended to allow you to salute the Flag during the National Anthem while in civilian attire. Navy regs say you will stand at attention with your right hand over your heart while in PT gear.

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

Often when walking out after work, I will be accompanied by one of the seniors (DOT or Chief of the Dept). Usually one or both of us is not in uniform. As we part ways to go to our seperate vehicles, I always salute. You can't go wrong with it.

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

There's a reason there are uniform regulations, people should read them more often as I recently discovered some interesting pieces I had 'forgotten'

This information is Navy specific only:

1)Salute when covered and outdoors. (you would only wear cover inside if you are on duty or some other specific situations)
2)Do not salute while in civilian gear / PT gear. AF/Army salute in PT gear
3)If in uniform while driving you shall do so while covered. If there is a passenger in the car, the passenger shall return the salute. If you are stopped (eg at a gate) you should return the salute as well.
4)The Flag Code was recently amended to allow you to salute the Flag during the National Anthem while in civilian attire. Navy regs say you will stand at attention with your right hand over your heart while in PT gear.

I have a question about this one. Here at Ft Gordon, we have a few small Navy and Air Force units attached, but it is an Army post. I have noticed Navy folks don't salute in their PT uniforms, but I wonder if they have an obligation to do it "the Army way" while they are here?

 

[ftrflyr29]

I have a question about this one. Here at Ft Gordon, we have a few small Navy and Air Force units attached, but it is an Army post. I have noticed Navy folks don't salute in their PT uniforms, but I wonder if they have an obligation to do it "the Army way" while they are here?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

 

[edmadison]

Also, in the army, if you are reporting to your commanding officer, or leaving your commanding officer's office you salute.

Ed

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

So do you think it is wise for a Navy E-Whatever in PTs walking out of the PX to NOT salute a field grade or higher Army officer? Not does he have to, but wise?

 

[USAFblue]

So do you think it is wise for a Navy E-Whatever in PTs walking out of the PX to NOT salute a field grade or higher Army officer? Not does he have to, but wise?

If I may add a word here...

It might not be required and it might not have anything to do with wisdom...

After all a salute is more than just a required "movement of one's arm" - it is a traditional courteous exchange of greetings in the military environment. In the military it is customary to greet each other with a salute, not by saying "hi". Savoir-vivre-wise one is expected to greet people and there are many different ways to do that - in the military it means rendering a salute... Unfortunately, some people do not understand the etiquette/courtesy/savoir-vivre/good manners background of the military salute - for them it's nothing more than just another regulation.

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

If I may add a word here...

It might not be required and it might not have anything to do with wisdom...

After all a salute is more than just a required "movement of one's arm" - it is a traditional courteous exchange of greetings in the military environment. In the military it is customary to greet each other with a salute, not by saying "hi". Savoir-vivre-wise one is expected to greet people and there are many different ways to do that - in the military it means rendering a salute... Unfortunately, some people do not understand the etiquette/courtesy/savoir-vivre/good manners background of the military salute - for them it's nothing more than just another regulation.

Good point. When I was enlisted, I used to get kind of a kick out saluting officers because of the history/background/tradition of the whole thing.

 

[ftrflyr29]

So do you think it is wise for a Navy E-Whatever in PTs walking out of the PX to NOT salute a field grade or higher Army officer? Not does he have to, but wise?

I digress a bit on my former statement. So, I've taken a small informal poll--amongst USN, USAF and USMC. It seems the consensus is, if Navy E-whatever is assigned to that post, it is wise for them to salute while in PT gear. Do as the Romans.

As someone said before, it is probably written somewhere and should be addressed amongst the Navy personnel assigned there on post--it definitely should be clarified. As an example, I am stationed at an NAS and the USAF personnel who are assigned to the Navy commands here have had to function under the base policy of not going out in town in flight suits. Now that an AF command is coming to take control of all the AF folks, they can go out in town as per their own policy.

Not sure about Marine Corps though. I have a hard time believing Marines would okay the saluting in PT gear, but I don't know. I do know, when I was in Iraq, the Marines at the CAOC functioned as their own entity and did NOT wear glow belts and man purses with IDs showing--that may have changed though--it was a few years ago.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Interesting thread. On my last ADT, I was in uniform and walked by an enlisted Marine. We made eye contact and he pretty much ignored me and didn't bother to salute. I don't know what his actual rank was.

I know I probably should have said something, but I'm pretty sure the scenario would go like this: I call him out on it, he acts like an ass about it or continues to ignore me, he reports hit to his CO or some Marine higher than me, that higher-ranking Marine comes back and berates me. So, in my mind it was pretty pointless to even bother.

 

[ftrflyr29]

Interesting thread. On my last ADT, I was in uniform and walked by an enlisted Marine. We made eye contact and he pretty much ignored me and didn't bother to salute. I don't know what his actual rank was.

I know I probably should have said something, but I'm pretty sure the scenario would go like this: I call him out on it, he acts like an ass about it or continues to ignore me, he reports hit to his CO or some Marine higher than me, that higher-ranking Marine comes back and berates me. So, in my mind it was pretty pointless to even bother.

You definitely should have said something. If I encounter an enlisted Marine(s) who doesn't salute, I will salute them first--just give a salute, make eye contact and say, "Good morning, Marine." I give them a chance to realize their mistake and if they don't fix it and they choose to continue to ignore me, we are then going to have a chat--a stern chat, but I will not yell and look like a jackass.

In my experience, any senior ranking enlisted Marine is going to salute, he may give you a little smile while he does it, but he will salute, because it's the right thing to do.

I don't know any Marine Officer who is going to come find you for correcting a young Marine for not saluting unless you made a complete ass out of yourself, and I don't think any Marine is going to admit to his CO that he completely disrespected an Officer--he's just asking for trouble.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Interesting thread. On my last ADT, I was in uniform and walked by an enlisted Marine. We made eye contact and he pretty much ignored me and didn't bother to salute. I don't know what his actual rank was.

I know I probably should have said something, but I'm pretty sure the scenario would go like this: I call him out on it, he acts like an ass about it or continues to ignore me, he reports hit to his CO or some Marine higher than me, that higher-ranking Marine comes back and berates me. So, in my mind it was pretty pointless to even bother.

So, no "high-ranking Marine" is going to berate you if you correct someone's behavior. But you want to be right when you are an O1 correcting anyone. Was the Marine covered? Were you? How sure are you that he was enlisted since you don't know his rank?

 

[backrow]

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[backrow]

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[backrow]

Sorry, I'm not saluting unless I'm in uniform. Navy tradition says no salute in PT gear, so the General will get my warmest greeting, but my go-go gadget salute arm won't be put into use.

If he wants to come say something to me I will be more than happy to let him/her know the Navy way of doing things, but my guess is that a flag officer already knows the other services traditions and regulations.

Isn't the tradition of saluting from the days of showing someone that you did not have a weapon in your hand??? If so then why the tradition of saluting in PT gear....rarely are you armed while in PT gear (only on same bases and some services)

 

[nova100]

http://www.cnrc.navy.mil/DEP/customs.htm

We were taught in NROTC you don't salute ever if uncovered (including PT gear) or in civilian clothes for both Navy and Marines...It is appropriate to offer the proper greeting in place of a salute in the Navy if your arent in uniform or are uncovered (see last bullet on link) - this would include if you are outdoors, but uncovered because you are eating. Any officer from another branch would win a silent "F You" if they said something to me about not saluting when I greeted them uncovered, and I'd think they were an idiot for correcting someone from another branch without knowing that branches customs. No marine will salute you when he is in PT gear, I promise. The website does say saluting is appropriate if in a room with a bunch of the other branch and they all stand and salute. That being said, good luck getting me to do it in PT gear if I'm just walking by you on my own.

No one will lay into you for saying good morning, sir to a general, though you should call them by their rank. Hi is a different story...

 

[GeoLeoX]

I think that the original poster was wondering about Army customs.

No one will lay into you for saying good morning, sir to a general, though you should call them by their rank. Hi is a different story...

this is absolutely untrue. believe me, i've been through it. and it was "good morning, ma'am" that got me in trouble.

 

[261390]

FM 7-21.13

4-13. All soldiers in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled (by grade) to a salute except when it is inappropriate or impractical (in public conveyances such as planes and buses, in public places such as inside theaters, or when driving a vehicle). A salute is also rendered:

• When the United States National Anthem, "To the Color," "Hail to the Chief," or foreign national anthems are played.
• To uncased National Color outdoors.
• On ceremonial occasions such as changes of command or funerals.
• At reveille and retreat ceremonies, during the raising or lowering of the flag.
• During the sounding of honors.
• When pledging allegiance to the US flag outdoors.
• When turning over control of formations.
• When rendering reports.
• To officers of friendly foreign countries.

4-14. Salutes are not required when:

• Indoors, unless reporting to an officer or when on duty as a guard.
• A prisoner.
• Saluting is obviously inappropriate. In any case not covered by specific instructions, render the salute.
• Either the senior or the subordinate is wearing civilian clothes.

4-15. In general, you don’t salute when you are working (for example, under your vehicle doing maintenance), indoors (except when reporting), or when saluting is not practical (carrying articles with both hands, for example). A good rule of thumb is this: if you are outdoors and it is practical to salute, do so. Outdoors includes theater marquees, shelters over gas station pumps, covered walkways, and other similar shelters that are open on the sides.

 

[backrow]

I think that the original poster was wondering about Army customs.

My understanding of the OP was that they were asking what a Navy person would do if doing a rotation at an Army base or similar situation.

 

[bobbyseal]

I never saluted the guard when I would drive in while on ADTs. I wasn't wearing my cover. Not sure if I was being disrespectful, but I was taught at Navy ODS that you didn't need to salute if uncovered in a car. I did set up straight and nod. Probably not the same....

 

[backrow]

I never saluted the guard when I would drive in while on ADTs. I wasn't wearing my cover. Not sure if I was being disrespectful, but I was taught at Navy ODS that you didn't need to salute if uncovered in a car. I did set up straight and nod. Probably not the same....

Navy Uniform regulations state that you will be covered while operating a vehicle. If stopped you should return the salute (if moving the passenger should return the salute).

Something I learned by actually reading the regulations one day instead of relying on what other people had told me.

(as an aside there is no regulation to have your ID card in your left breast pocket, or any other pocket for that matter)