San Francisco Chronicle article about psychotherapists falling prey to phone scams

[futureapppsy2]

‘He held me hostage with no gun but with his words’: The phone scam gaslighting therapists

Swindlers are targeting therapists with a scam claiming they’re at risk of jail time...

www.sfchronicle.com

Thoughts?

I know that manipulation and panic points (jail, loss of licensure, etc) can override logic, but I'm still surprised that they didn't pick up on it when the "officers" asked for the "bail" to be paid in pre-paid giftcards, as that is glaringly obviously not legit.

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[WisNeuro]

Considering what I see during record review from providers of many healthcare specialties, I am not surprised at all that some of them are falling victim to these types of scams.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

‘He held me hostage with no gun but with his words’: The phone scam gaslighting therapists

Swindlers are targeting therapists with a scam claiming they’re at risk of jail time...

www.sfchronicle.com

Thoughts?

I know that manipulation and panic points (jail, loss of licensure, etc) can override logic, but I'm still surprised that they didn't pick up on it when the "officers" asked for the "bail" to be paid in pre-paid giftcards, as that is glaringly obviously not legit.

an excerpt:

“I’m sorry but once you’re on the phone with me, you’re not allowed to get off because you’re considered a flight risk,” she recalls him saying. “This phone call is being monitored and you’re not allowed to send a text message or make any calls about this case because it’s in violation of the gag order.”

Bizarre. But in a day and age of increasing authoritarianism, this fits right in and maybe 'flies under' some people's radar. I mean...the sixth amendment? Right to counsel? Even accused murderers get that.

 

[JB1108]

I received this scam call and you would be surprised how official it sounds. This person had case numbers, was calling from the number that belonged to the local sheriff's station, knew the population I work with, etc. On top of that, one of my clients had just begun the process to remove custody from their parent and the scam caller said I missed a custody hearing.

Luckily for me, I was firm that I needed to at least call my administrator to reschedule my clients for the day before I drove to the police station (which is where they were sending me) and instead called my supervisor because I am a postdoc. My supervisor had heard of this scam and told me to simply hang up. I was confused as to how they were going to make any profit from having me drive to the police station but after reading the article, I guess they would have redirected me. I certainly won't fall for something similar again!

 

[Mama Bear]

These are always interesting to me. I enjoy coming up with fun ways to respond if I ever get a scam call.

 

[MAClinician]

The spoofing of legit phone numbers/offices is the part where people are most likely to fall for it, I think. I read the article earlier this week and also questioned how some of the victims didn’t pick up the scam after several clues were dropped. Crazy.

 

[Spydra]

And people wonder why I just don't answer the phone...... it is really sad that people are falling for this.

 

[R. Matey]

an excerpt:

“I’m sorry but once you’re on the phone with me, you’re not allowed to get off because you’re considered a flight risk,” she recalls him saying. “This phone call is being monitored and you’re not allowed to send a text message or make any calls about this case because it’s in violation of the gag order.”

Bizarre. But in a day and age of increasing authoritarianism, this fits right in and maybe 'flies under' some people's radar. I mean...the sixth amendment? Right to counsel? Even accused murderers get that.

Right, and "I need your badge ID and the name of your supervisor." Start asking the questions instead responding to the questions.

 

[cara susanna]

Ugh, did they have to use the term "gaslight"?

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

O

Right, and "I need your badge ID and the name of your supervisor." Start asking the questions instead responding to the questions.

Or even, "Am I being detained? Have I been charged with a crime? I would like to consult with my attorney at this point."

I blame bad tv shows (cop dramas) with the archetype of the rogue hero cop/agent who is dismissive of due process rights and limits to government power over individual citizens. Makes this sort of bizarre request appear 'normal.'

 

[cara susanna]

Yeah, I feel like the gift card thing and then the message that CVS employee wrote could have been tip-offs. That being said, I try not to victim blame. The last part about undressing was pretty horrifying.

Also, fight/freeze/fawn? Huh? I've never heard of "fawn."

 

[bluecolourskies]

This is when knowing a second language comes in handy! They usually try asking if I speak English, and then hang up.

I figure if it’s really the police/IRS, they will call back lol

 

[jdawg2017]

an excerpt:

“I’m sorry but once you’re on the phone with me, you’re not allowed to get off because you’re considered a flight risk,” she recalls him saying. “This phone call is being monitored and you’re not allowed to send a text message or make any calls about this case because it’s in violation of the gag order.”

Bizarre. But in a day and age of increasing authoritarianism, this fits right in and maybe 'flies under' some people's radar. I mean...the sixth amendment? Right to counsel? Even accused murderers get that.

I agree with this, but in the heat of the moment who knows what we all would do. Research on hot/cold decision making from social psychology shows just how much we can be swung by the context of the situation. It sounds like these scammers really knew how to push folks' buttons.

R.E. the authoritarianism point, I agree. Even though we have many constitutionally-afforded legal protections in this country, our legal system is *really* screwed up. I have actually had nightmares after watching some documentaries about how people are wrongly accused of crimes like murder or rape, detained without bail (or cannot afford bail), and ultimately are acquitted. Spending months to years in jail for a crime you did not commit can ruin your life and reputation, even if ultimately found not guilty. I imagine some of these thoughts were running through victims' heads.

 

[clausewitz2]

.

Also, fight/freeze/fawn? Huh? I've never heard of "fawn."

It is definitely a thing. On the Internet. Idea being that impulsively lashing out at a threat, standing stock still in terror, and meekly cooperating with and ingratiating yourself with someone threatening are all the same.

I am sure there are plenty of TikTok accounts that could explain all about it.

 

[Mama Bear]

It is definitely a thing. On the Internet. Idea being that impulsively lashing out at a threat, standing stock still in terror, and meekly cooperating with and ingratiating yourself with someone threatening are all the same.

I am sure there are plenty of TikTok accounts that could explain all about it.

I’m so glad I have TikTok to learn all about mental health stuff 😒

 

[futureapppsy2]

I’m so glad I have TikTok to learn all about mental health stuff 😒

You can also learn how 80% of the population has DID and/or autism, and everyone who ever annoys, hurts, or upsets you in any way has BPD, NPD, or ASPD. Also, if you ever have any conflict at all, a relationship is automatically toxic and you should go no contact with that person immediately. 😉

 

[BidingMyTime]

This is reminds me of how child predators will warn their victims not to tell anyone, else they will hurt their parents/siblings/friends. Anytime someone threatens you, that is the time to seek help--police, lawyer, manager, etc. Anyone refusing to let you verify their threat is lying-always.

 

[cara susanna]

It is definitely a thing. On the Internet. Idea being that impulsively lashing out at a threat, standing stock still in terror, and meekly cooperating with and ingratiating yourself with someone threatening are all the same.

I am sure there are plenty of TikTok accounts that could explain all about it.

So fawn refers to compliance in the face of a threat?

 

[WisNeuro]

So fawn refers to compliance in the face of a threat?

I think it's more of the submissive and ingratiation aspect than compliance for this particular characteristic. But, I am a geriatric millennial, so I may be misreading it.

 

[Sanman]

I feel like something like this would not shock Stanley Milgram at all.

 

[WisNeuro]

I feel like something like this would not shock Stanley Milgram at all.

Have you ever read the original papers and historic commentary about what wasn't published? Oh boy has the field over-interpreted those findings.

 

[Sanman]

Have you ever read the original papers and historic commentary about what wasn't published? Oh boy has the field over-interpreted those findings.

I haven't read everything. I know Jerry Burger attempted a replication in the mid 2000s with similar results. I can definitely see people over-interpreting those findings. That said, obedience to authority is something that we are societally trained to do and when the stakes are less cognitively dissonant (pay money and relieve stress without hurting others) I do wonder how much of a role this plays in these scams.

 

[WisNeuro]

I haven't read everything. I know Jerry Burger attempted a replication in the mid 2000s with similar results. I can definitely see people over-interpreting those findings. That said, obedience to authority is something that we are societally trained to do and when the stakes are less cognitively dissonant (pay money and relieve stress without hurting others) I do wonder how much of a role this plays in these scams.

Oh, I am not disputing that a significant number of people will do these things, just that how large this figure is remembered, compared to what it actually was in the series of experiments would surprise people.

 

[cara susanna]

I think it's more of the submissive and ingratiation aspect than compliance for this particular characteristic. But, I am a geriatric millennial, so I may be misreading it.

Sure. But, like, why lump it in with flight/fight/freeze which is very specifically an acute trauma response driven by the sympathetic nervous system?

I know I'm preaching to the choir here. Just... Agghhhh

 

[WisNeuro]

Sure. But, like, why lump it in with flight/fight/freeze which is very specifically an acute trauma response driven by the sympathetic nervous system?

I know I'm preaching to the choir here. Just... Agghhhh

Because this is 2021 where words have no meaning, everything is trauma, and reality is subjective. 🙂 I'll make sure to put some extra chairs on the porch after we move if you'd like to join in the yelling of kids to stay off my lawn.

 

[clausewitz2]

Because this is 2021 where words have no meaning, everything is trauma, and reality is subjective. 🙂 I'll make sure to put some extra chairs on the porch after we move if you'd like to join in the yelling of kids to stay off my lawn.

I think you're gonna need to swing by a furniture store if that's an open invitation.

 

[Sanman]

I think you're gonna need to swing by a furniture store if that's an open invitation.

I'll bring some bourbon, this seems like an entertaining alternative Halloween activity.

 

[WisNeuro]

More chairs it is, then down to the bar downstairs for a pool tourney once we get those kids off the lawn. Also, something I am geeked about, the bar downstairs has installed taplines good to go.