San Juan Bautista School of Medicine or Reapply

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Reapply or Attend SJB

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bDawk4ever

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Hey guys i've been thinking about this over the last couple of days and i'm on the fence. I have been accepted to San Juan Bautista School of Medicine and have saved my spot. SJB is a LCME accredited MD school in Puerto Rico. I know that if I attend there will probably be some stigma when applying to residency programs because although its not DO or International it isn't mainland and the requirements are lower. I have interviewed at two other medical schools Toledo in northwest Ohio and Tucson Arizona and I didn't apply to any DO schools and am still waiting to hear back. I speak Spanish and am familiar with the island however my wife isn't. I'm not interested in hearing about your take on the economy or Puerto Rico I understand the situation my father was stationed there for a long time and I don't want to hear someone's opinion about PR who has never visited or lived there.

So with that all said if it comes down to it what do you guys think about SJB vs Reapplying and taking the MCAT again my score is an even 500 (I stressed out and bombed the first section 120/126/127/127). I've been weighing the pros and cons of what I should do. MD is MD but I'm on the fence if this will affect residency or my future career am I better off to waiting one more year. My wife and I are willing to move anywhere just not sure about stigmas from residencies and how going to a low tier MD school can limit me.
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You mention that you are worried about your future career if you attend SJB, but you should be more worried about declining a USMD acceptance. You put yourself in a tough position applying, and getting accepted to, a school that you are lukewarm about. If you decline an accredited MD acceptance, you will have that stigma with you next cycle along with an unremarkable MCAT. You could retake, but you aren’t guaranteed to get a better score – people often overestimate their ability for improvement. What is worse for your future career is reapplying, taking an extra year, and a very real possibility of not getting into another school.

Tl;dr SJB is a USMD. You have an acceptance. Safest option is to attend and become a doctor.
 
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Take it. Realistically a school is a place you go to to be allowed to take board exams. You’ll end up using the same resources as everyone else does (sketchy, Pathoma, physeo, zanki/firecracker) & as an M2 realizing it doesn’t really matter where you go to school in relation to future performance as long as your goal isn’t to be a subspecialty surgery super god at whatever ivory tower.

Plus, now you don’t need to learn OMM!
 
You will be an MD. Most people are not MDs. You should be happy.
 
bDawk4ever said:
Failsafe school didn't realize there might be a slight stigma until after interviewing at other schools and seeing the difference.
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Would a slight stigma be worth the risk of taking a year to reapply and getting shut out entirely? There's a decidedly larger stigma against applicants who reapply. They may never entertain any possible disadvantage for residencies, because they were already shut out from medical school after turning down an acceptance.

You're entering a US MD program with just a 500 MCAT dude. Yes there might be a slight stigma, but you're still better off than most. I was rejected from many programs I was sincerely interested in and competitive for on paper, so I understand the desire to want to do better.

But take the acceptance and run with it.
 
I honestly do not think you will be at a disadvantage if you go to medical school in Puerto Rico. It is, for all intents and purposes just another state but its territory status is used a justification for getting shafted by the US government on a regular basis. So if another hurricane destroys the island, I wouldn't count on much federal aid coming your way if carrot man is in office. So maybe in that life or death sense, you could potentially be at a disadvantage but not so much for residency placement in the mainland US.
 
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I hope you can speak Spanish. It might even help out when applying for certain residencies that deal with high volumes of Spanish speakers.
 
cantankerous said:
I hope you can speak Spanish. It might even help out when applying for certain residencies that deal with high volumes of Spanish speakers.
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I think he should be okay. They essentially determine throughout the interview process if the applicant speaks enough Spanish to get by for 3rd and 4th yr rotations.
 
I have an uncle who went to Ponce - he was not PR. He matched into the # 1 residency in Optha back in his day. And one of the residents I shadowed went to SJB and is now at an Ivy hospital where she matched. Just do your best and have an open mind, good luck and congratulations
 
Definitely take the USMD. Better than a Caribbean MD or DO. You will be sought after if you perform well there with your Spanish abilities.
 
cantankerous said:
I hope you can speak Spanish. It might even help out when applying for certain residencies that deal with high volumes of Spanish speakers.
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I lived in Mexico for several years and work as an interpreter. The entire interview process for San Juan Bautista was given in Spanish.
 
This page from their website shows some of their retention data and match lists up to the year 2015. There is some concerning stuff in there. Perhaps they have changed in the last 4 years, I don't know.

Think about your career aspirations and if SJB can get you there. I think it would be extremely tough to match ortho, ENT, derm, IR, neurosurg, etc. If you are interested in less competitive fields it could be a great option.
 
I was accepted here years ago, chose a DO school over it, and have no regrets about that. Yes, SJB is a USMD school and there are a handful of impressive matches that you can cherrypick (just as you can do with DO and Caribbean schools), but it is absolutely not on equal standing with LCME-accredited schools in the continental US/AK/HI, and there will be several obstacles when you apply for residency. As has been stated before, the mission for this school aims to keep physicians in PR. The core rotation sites are in PR, and many students are from PR and stay there for residency. If I'm remembering correctly, you are allowed to set up rotations outside of PR, but you will have to be the one doing all the legwork to make that happen.

All of that being said, you should take the acceptance unless you get into one of the other schools that interviewed you. Your MCAT score is low, and there is no guarantee that you will improve on retake or become a stronger applicant with a gap year. Your concerns about the stigma and lack of prestige are not unfounded, but SJB will serve its purpose in giving you a medical school degree. Since your family is ok with moving to the island, you should take the opportunity that has been presented to you to become a doctor.
 
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ThreeCheers said:
I was accepted here years ago, chose a DO school over it, and have no regrets about that. Yes, SJB is a USMD school and there are a handful of impressive matches that you can cherrypick (just as you can do with DO and Caribbean schools), but it is absolutely not on equal standing with LCME-accredited schools in the continental US/AK/HI, and there will be several obstacles when you apply for residency. As has been stated before, the mission for this school aims to keep physicians in PR. The core rotation sites are in PR, and many students are from PR and stay there for residency. If I'm remembering correctly, you are allowed to set up rotations outside of PR, but you will have to be the one doing all the legwork to make that happen.

All of that being said, you should take the acceptance unless you get into one of the other schools that interviewed you. Your MCAT score is low, and there is no guarantee that you will improve on retake or become a stronger applicant with a gap year. Your concerns about the stigma and lack of prestige are not unfounded, but SJB will serve its purpose in giving you a medical school degree. Since your family is ok with moving to the island, you should take the opportunity that has been presented to you to become a doctor.
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As a MS3, you have to do all your rotations in PR... But you can do all your MS4 in the state using VSAS... You are right that you will get a better education at most DO schools in the US than SJB, but when it is time to apply for residency, they have a leg up over DO students since it is an LCME accredited school...

A few anecdotes: I am not sure DO students would have an easy time matching Radiology at University Rochester with a mid 220s step1. I am not sure a DO student with 221/244 step2 would 32 invites in EM applying to 65 programs... These invites include Emory, Yale, UTSW etc... I can give you countless anecdotes about students from SJB who matched into good university programs with step1/2 that are not great... (215 radiology, ~200 Neurology university program, failed both step1 and step2 FM in Texas)... Matched University IM w/o CK with 5-year graduation. Having that LCME accreditation (MD in your diploma) is a HUGE deal


Another anecdote: Do you think Bringham Women' hospital would even entertain interviewing a DO applicant with high 230s step1/2?
 
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Splenda88 said:
As a MS3, you have to do all your rotations in PR... But you can do all your MS4 in the state using VSAS... You are right that you will get a better education at most DO schools in the US than SJB, but when it is time to apply for residency, they have a leg up over DO students since it is an LCME accredited school...

A few anecdotes: I am not sure DO students would have an easy time matching Radiology at University Rochester with a mid 220s step1. I am not sure a DO student with 221/244 step2 would 32 invites in EM applying to 65 programs... These invites include Emory, Yale, UTSW etc... I can give you countless anecdotes about students from SJB who matched into good university programs with step1/2 that are not great... (215 radiology, ~200 Neurology university program, failed both step1 and step2 FM in Texas)... Matched University IM w/o CK with 5-year graduation. Having that LCME accreditation (MD in your diploma) is a HUGE deal
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Well, there actually are countless anecdotes of DO students matching into strong rads and EM programs with sub-230 step scores, but that's not really the point I'm trying to make.

I do agree that SJB students will have a serious advantage in not being filtered out on ERAS or prejudged by PDs that are not familiar with DOs. I never said otherwise. However, they will also face a disadvantage of not having a home institution in the mainland US. This means that applicants will not being able to spend their M3 networking and getting LORs from an institution where they hope to do residency. Yes, they can get some M4 aways, but VSAS is a massive headache that doesn't guarantee that applicants will get their desired rotations, and waiting for M4 to get pertinent letters is not ideal.

SJB is a great option for OP, but I'm just giving my honest feedback on the downsides, and disagree with the people saying that applicants from SJB will face NO obstacles when it comes to residency applications.
 
ThreeCheers said:
There actually are countless anecdotes of DO students matching into strong rads and EM programs with sub-230 step scores. None of those matches that you mentioned seem all that crazy to me, especially without knowing the rest of their applications.

I do agree that SJB students will have a serious advantage in not being filtered out on ERAS or prejudged by PDs that are not familiar with DOs. I never said otherwise. However, they will also face a disadvantage of not having a home institution in the mainland US. This means that applicants will not being able to spend their M3 networking and getting LORs from an institution where they hope to do residency. Yes, they can get some M4 aways, but VSAS is a massive headache that doesn't guarantee that applicants will get their desired rotations, and waiting for M4 to get pertinent letters is not ideal.

SJB is a great option for OP, but I'm just giving my honest feedback on the downsides, and disagree with the people saying that applicants from SJB will face NO obstacles when it comes to residency applications.
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There is NO obstacle as long as OP can get a good score in step 1/2... SJB is just another low tier US med school like Howard, Morehouse etc...
 
Splenda88 said:
There is NO obstacle as long as OP can get a good score in step 1/2... SJB is just another low tier US med school like Howard, Morehouse etc...
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Howard, Morehouse, etc have home institutions where many students will desire residency. SJB does not (at least not for students that want to move back to the continental US). The site of M3 rotations absolutely matters in residency applications.
 
ThreeCheers said:
Howard, Morehouse, etc have home institutions where many students will desire residency. SJB does not (at least not for students that want to move back to the mainland US).
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I got that... My point was that it's just another US low tier med school that enjoys LCME accreditation and its privileges over DO schools.

I am sure many DO schools provide better than Morehouse, Howard aka some low tier US MD schools, but the LCME is what matters when it comes to residency...
 
Splenda88 said:
I got that... My point was that it's just another US low tier med school that enjoys LCME accreditation and its privileges over DO schools.

I am sure many DO schools provide better than Morehouse, Howard aka some low tier US schools, but the LCME is what matters when it comes to residency...
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Re-read my original post. I wasn't comparing SJB to DO schools beyond stating that I personally chose a DO school over it (for a variety of reasons, some of which I didn't get into because they weren't directly relevant to OP's concern). I compared it to LCME schools in the continental US (including the low tier ones), and stated why it was less ideal due to its M3 rotation sites being in PR.
 
I don't understand why apply to PR schools if they do not want to study there.
There are many students in Puerto Rico that want those spaces and have to go to Mexico or to the Caribbean schools to study because many spaces were given to OOS. Just study harder and get a high MCAT score if you want to study in the mainland.
 
ThreeCheers said:
Re-read my original post. I wasn't comparing SJB to DO schools beyond stating that I personally chose a DO school over it (for a variety of reasons, some of which I didn't get into because they weren't directly relevant to OP's concern). I compared it to LCME schools in the continental US (including the low tier ones), and stated why it was less ideal due to its M3 rotation sites being in PR.
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I see... But I think you overstated that advantage of the low tier US MD school over SJB... It's not a huge deal, to be honest. The primary filter for these old PDs is LCME... I am familiar with some SJB grads and they don't think doing 3rd rotations in the island was a hindrance to them. Some who did not speak Spanish well believe it was a plus.
 
epimed22 said:
I don't understand why apply to PR schools if they do not want to study there.
There are many students in Puerto Rico that want those spaces and have to go to Mexico or to the Caribbean schools to study because many spaces were given to OOS. Just study harder and get a high MCAT score if you want to study in the mainland.
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Lol... A lot of these PR students move to the US to make more $$$...
 
If you do not get into Tucson or Toledo, take the SJB acceptance. Reapplicants have a hard enough time as it is, but turning down an MD acceptance is often a lethal move. You will need to do well on Step 1 and take Step 2 early enough that you have that score as well by the time that you apply for residency. Make sure to do as many MS4 rotations on the mainland as possible and do a great job on those rotations (at hospitals that have a residency where you would be interested). Given that you speak Spanish, you will be a desirable residency applicant if you do well on your Step exams and on your clinical rotations, especially those on the mainland.
 
Splenda88 said:
I see... But I think you overstated that advantage of the low tier US MD school over SJB... It's not a huge deal, to be honest. The primary filter for these old PDs is LCME... I am familiar with some SJB grads and they don't think doing 3rd rotations in the island was a hindrance to them. Some who did not speak Spanish well believe it was a plus.
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Personally, I heard otherwise when I was interviewing there and heavily researching the program when deciding where to go to medical school (which included talking to SJB students and to people involved in the residency selection process). It probably depends on the individual applicants, what connections they may have to residencies back in the continental US, and how competitive of a field they're applying to.
Overall, I would argue that a quality M3 year at a desirable home institution is the most important thing that a med school can singlehandedly provide to its students. It's certainly not an insurmountable obstacle if a school doesn't offer this, but it makes the already grueling application process that much more difficult.
 
Mad Jack said:
It is an LCME MD school. You are in the same filter as regular MD applicants. It is miles and away better than a DO school or any international school when it comes to residency
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I agree... I don't think there were 10 DO that matched into ophtho in 2018... SJB had 2 students who matched ophtho in 2018 in a class of 50+
 
ThreeCheers said:
Personally, I heard otherwise when I was interviewing there and heavily researching the program when deciding where to go to medical school (which included talking to SJB students and to people involved in the residency selection process). It probably depends on the individual applicants, what connections they may have to residencies back in the continental US, and how competitive of a field they're applying to.
Overall, I would argue that a quality M3 year at a desirable home institution is the most important thing that a med school can singlehandedly provide to its students. It's certainly not an insurmountable obstacle if a school doesn't offer this, but it makes the already grueling application process that much more difficult.
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you were interview years ago, the school has improved a lot since then.
 
ThreeCheers said:
Personally, I heard otherwise when I was interviewing there and heavily researching the program when deciding where to go to medical school (which included talking to SJB students and to people involved in the residency selection process). It probably depends on the individual applicants, what connections they may have to residencies back in the continental US, and how competitive of a field they're applying to.
Overall, I would argue that a quality M3 year at a desirable home institution is the single most important thing that a med school can singlehandedly provide to its students. It's certainly not an insurmountable obstacle if a school doesn't offer this, but it makes the already grueling application process that much more difficult.
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That is good in theory, but when it's come to applying for residency, believe it or not, most PD care about step1/2 and BS research if you are not from a top 30 school.
 
epimed22 said:
you were interview years ago, the school has improved a lot since then.
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It has, but they need to do a lot more... I have a feeling once Dr. Brugal is retired, SJB will be in big trouble.
 
Splenda88 said:
That is good in theory, but when it's come to applying for residency, believe it or not, most PD care about step1/2 and BS research if you are not from a top 30 school.
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It's not just a theory. PDs care very much about name recognition on LORs and getting a phone call from the right person. That's not even to mention the inbreeding that goes on at home institutions. Come on, that's not even debatable.
SJB students can still get those things, but it will be harder and they will have to be more reliant on the absolute cluster**** that is VSAS.
EDIT: I feel like we're straying off topic so I'll leave it at that. Best of luck, OP, and please don't write off SJB if it's your only acceptance.
 
Splenda88 said:
Who cares about inbreeding go on at Morehouse, Howard, Meharry etc... Most people don't want to go to these places anyway...
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Ok I'm dropping the discussion about the merits of SJB's M3 rotations as promised, but I do want to note that this part is absolutely 100% incorrect. I have no idea where you are getting the impression that med students attending HBCU don't want to stay there for residency, especially since they are located in major US cities.
 
ThreeCheers said:
Ok I'm dropping the discussion about the merits of SJB's M3 rotations as promised, but I do want to note that this part is absolutely 100% incorrect. I have no idea where you are getting the impression that med students attending HBCU don't want to stay there for residency, especially since they are located in major US cities.
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I attended one of the HBCU schools... Lol
 
Splenda88 said:
I attended one of the HBCU schools... Lol
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And are there as many people that matriculate while being dead set on getting out of DC/ATL/Nashville as there are SJB students that want to get out of PR? I would find that pretty surprising.
 
ThreeCheers said:
And are there as many people that matriculate while being dead set on getting out of DC/ATL/Nashville as there are SJB students that want to get out of PR? I would find that pretty surprising.
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HBCU students are US students, so they can get residency in other major US cities as I had no problem getting into University IM program in a major city with <220 step1 and 220+ step2.


SJB accepts ~60 students and about half of them are out of state... ~50 students graduate each year... All the out of state students return to the mainland and most of the Puerto Ricans got residency in the mainland... Give or take, ~10 students stay in PR.
 
Splenda88 said:
HBCU students are US students, so they can get residency in other major US cities as I had no problem getting into University IM program in a major city with <220 step1 and 220+ step2.


SJB accepts ~60 students and about half of them are out of state... ~50 students graduate each year... All the out of state students return to the mainland and most of the Puerto Ricans got residency in the mainland... Give or take, ~10 students stay in PR.
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What I was getting at is the students at low-tier schools in the continental US will have a pretty good option at their home institution if all else fails. Maybe not their top choice, but a reasonable one. This is especially helpful if they are applying to competitive specialties. Whereas the out-of-state students at SJB generally have no desire to stay in PR because its location is very inconvenient.

Anyway, I get the sense that we mostly agree on the core issue (that OP should attend SJB and will have good residency options if s/he puts in the work) so we should probably just leave it at that. Thanks for the input and discussion!
 
ThreeCheers said:
Anyway, I get the sense that we mostly agree on the core issue (that OP should attend SJB and will have good residency options if s/he puts in the work) so we should probably just leave it at that. Thanks for the input and discussion!
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I agree...I attended a US mainland school but I was also accepted at SJB. My friend who is an overrepresented minority was accepted to another school in PR (the only school he was accepted to), but he foolishly declined his acceptance and decided to take a plunge at the MCAT again. His MCAT retake did not go well. He re-applied the following year and luckily was accepted at SJB. Scored in the high 230s in both step1/2 and interviewed at some top anesthesia programs(BWH included) this cycle... I was talking to him the day after the match day, and he brought that up himself how he was foolish for declining that acceptance at the other PR school (a better school than SJB IMO).

I was not arguing with you but I feel like you were trying to justify your choice of DO over SJB, which I would have done as well. But by bringing that up, I thought that might influence OP to decline his SBJ acceptance
 
Splenda88 said:
I agree...I attended a US mainland school but I was also accepted at SJB. My friend who is an overrepresented minority was accepted to another school in PR (the only school he was accepted to), but he foolishly declined his acceptance and decided to take a plunge at the MCAT again. His MCAT retake did not go well. He re-applied the following year and luckily was accepted at SJB. Scored in the high 230s in both step1/2 and interviewed at some top anesthesia programs(BWH included) this cycle... I was talking to him the day after the match day, and he brought that up himself how he was foolish for declining that acceptance at the other PR school (a better school than SJB IMO).

I was not arguing with you but I feel like you were trying to justify your choice of DO over SJB, which I would have done as well. But by bringing that up, I thought that might influence OP to decline his SBJ acceptance
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do you know what was his mcat score?
 
Splenda88 said:
I agree...I attended a US mainland school but I was also accepted at SJB. My friend who is an overrepresented minority was accepted to another school in PR (the only school he was accepted to), but he foolishly declined his acceptance and decided to take a plunge at the MCAT again. His MCAT retake did not go well. He re-applied the following year and luckily was accepted at SJB. Scored in the high 230s in both step1/2 and interviewed at some top anesthesia programs(BWH included) this cycle... I was talking to him the day after the match day, and he brought that up himself how he was foolish for declining that acceptance at the other PR school (a better school than SJB IMO).

I was not arguing with you but I feel like you were trying to justify your choice of DO over SJB, which I would have done as well. But by bringing that up, I thought that might influence OP to decline his SBJ acceptance
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Just to clarify: my choice of DO school over SJB was very much justified, but it was largely based on factors that are no longer relevant today (SJB being on probation at the time, plus the separate match for DOs still existing). The other downsides that I mentioned didn't play as large of a role in my decision even though they were real concerns I had. I only brought them up because they were relevant to OP's specific inquiry about obstacles SJB students face during residency applications.

Having visited the campus and researched SJB more intently than the average SDN user, I felt compelled to share my honest perception of the school (both the good and the bad) so that OP can make an informed decision.
OP didn't even apply to DO schools and I repeatedly advised him/her to take the acceptance so I don't feel too concerned that my personal anecdote will negatively influence his/her decision. I absolutely would have attended SJB had it been my only acceptance, which is the situation OP is facing.
 
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