Saturated Market for Optometry?

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Bravehrt

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Does anyone know if the market for eye care is being saturated by the number of optometrist in the profession. If so, is this pressure playing a role in some optometrists working for Walmart(many of which are begining to notice strong corporate influence on their practice? I want to hear some opinions of possible consequences of a saturated market and what we can do. Also what do you think about Walmart's manipulations on the optometric profession.

Bravehrt
 
Walmart suck in every possible aspect of the way they conduct themselves. That is not only in Optometry but in general sales too. I have read way to many articles about their practices to even consider shopping there. I can't get into it now b/c it is finals week and I have to study.

As far as chains affecting private practice...it does in some ways but not as much as people think. I don't know anyone who is loyal to a chain optical shops, but I do know many who are very loyal to a doctor. We have had many patients leave for a year and try a chain (Walmart, Lenscrafters, Pearl, Sears...), but most come back and will tell me they went to place X last year and they will never go back. Most people who go to the chains are the patients who would drift from doctor to doctor anyway. The people who stick with you...stick with you. I really don't think they have hurt us to much, although I'm sure they have hurt in some aspects.

There are a lot of ODs, but there are areas of the US that don't have one for miles. If you set yourself up in a big city or a city with an OD school, there will be a lot of you. You just have to find a location that works. But if you do go to a city with many ODs, you better specialize in something. That is the only way you can set yourself apart.
 
I've told my story a couple of times on SDN, but here is a very short version for your benefit. I used to be pre-optometry, wrote the OAT, applied to schools, got into all the schools I applied to, but last minute (like very last minute) before I was going to start school this past september, I decided to defer my acceptance at my first choice school. One of the main things I consider was the saturation of O.D.'s in the US. It's true, if you go to crapville USA, you may find yourself with lots of patients, but I don't want to live in crapville (no offense to crapville perse, some people really like small, rural communities...not for me).

In any case, I do believe that the Walmarts, Targets, big chains are taking over optometry. Take a look at pharmacy. Pharmacists used to all have their own stores, making lots of money, making their own hours, own boss etc. Now-a-days, you rarely see a stand-alone pharmacy. They are all part of giant national chains. This being said, pharmacist still make very good salaries, but the work environment/style is different for them than it used to be. I feel like optometry can only go this way. As long as there's money in glasses/contacts, more chains will be popping up and will recruit new grads with huge debts. It's true everyone seems to hate working for these big chains, but they accept the positions anyway. Why? Because they have no alternative. They have 150-200K debt, and can't take on the additional debt (or risk) of trying to start a new practise of scratch.

After really looking at all sides of the equation, though I am slated to start optometry school next September, I have pretty well decided I will take another route. That being said, don't let me make the decision for you. Get as informed as you possibly can, and it's never too late to change your mind. I wasted a couple thousand dollars (and lots and lots of time), studying OAT, applying to schools, flying around for interviews, yet I am still okay with the fact that I backed out at the last moment. I know it's probably what was best for me.

One last point, I can't stress this one enough: Go to www.seniordocs.org to get information. Sign up for a free account and read through lots of their old posts. One of the posts which scared me, was the one entitled "Recent grads, would you do it again?" Bascially they were asking optometry grads within the last 5 years that if they had their schooling to do over again, knowing what they know now, would they still do optometry. Let's just say the results were interesting and not encouraging from my point of view.

Last note: Don't get me wrong, there are tons of cool things about optometry...that's what got me into it in the first place. The key is too look at all sides and decide if it's best for you. (Optometry admissions people and the AOA may publish stats and tell you things that don't really pan out in real life).

Good luck, and feel free to ask any specific questions!
 
Braveheart, don't listen to what a lot of people say on these forums about optometry. All people do is complain about saturation, money, _______ (inside whatever reason here). You will see this trend in every forum, ophthalmologists are complaining about how optometry will take over, anesthesiologists are complaining about high malpractice insurance, and busy lifestyles etc etc etc. People are soooo worried about jobs and money. The fact of the matter is, that your job will be what you make of it. If you are hardworking and determined, you will be a great optometrist and the rewards will come, financially and personally. Keep in mind, there are a lot of optometrists out there who chose optometry just because they didnt get into med school. They are the med student wanna bes who are lazier than their counterparts because they didn't work hard in college. Watch out for these people, a lot of them post on this forum (i.e. reality check).

One optometrist that I currently work for has been a great inspiration to me. He has a Ph.D in addition to his O.D., and he writes books, gives lectures, and is involved in more comittees and groups than you can imagine. This is all of course combined with his practice that deals only with rare eye diseases such as keratoconus, cataract surgery patients, etc. He does not do regular eye exams, and since his services are so unique his exam fees are high, close to the 300 dollar range. He makes roughly $175,000 a year. But he is a special case because he is such a talented, hard working individual. Keep in mind that he works 9-5, mon-fri.

Another optometrist I worked for has his own private practice in san diego, and he makes about $120,000 a year working FOUR days a week, YES FOUR. However, he owns the office and doesnt pay rent, which saves him a lot of money. Every friday he goes golfing, and he is always able to spend time with his family, go to his sons baseball games, etc.

If it is money you are worried about, then consider this. Yes, physicians do get paid more, but this is because they are much more highly trained. You wanna be an anesthesiologist for example, you will go to med school for four years, four years of residency training, and a 2 year fellowship before you can start work. You will be well into your 30s, working 55-60 hours a week, living on the edge every day, a patient could die on you at any moment. There are sugeries, blood, stress, long hours. However, the payoff is amazing. $250,000+ a year. After taxes and malpractice insurance, that will become 140,000. Is this worth 10 years of your life studying 10 hours a day? The choice is yours, if you want to take that path, and you have a passion for it, the rewards are great. I, on the other hand, prefer to work 40 hours a week and go to optometry school for 4 years. Yes, the pay is less, you will not be filthy rich on your salary alone. HOWEVER, most rich people make their way to the top in other ways. All of my 8+ uncles are millionaires because of how the handled their money. They came from iraq in their early 20s, worked in liquor stores for 70+ hours a week for a small salary. but they saved their money, they invested. Eventually they saved enough money to buy the liquor store. Years later they would make other investments, i.e. buy a gas station and sell it for way more a few years later. Now they all own properties, like hotels, stores, etc. and reap the profits every month.

You want to be rich? If you make close to 100,000 a year as an optometrist, don't be like everyone else and just spend that salary. You have the fortune of working such excellent hours in a stress free environment. Save that money. Over the years, you will have enough to make investments and get rich that way. Just my 2 cents. Don't be scared to do optomety because of the money or saturated job market. You will find a job if you are hardworking and make connections.
 
chaldobruin said:
Braveheart, don't listen to what a lot of people say on these forums about optometry. All people do is complain about saturation, money, _______ (inside whatever reason here). You will see this trend in every forum, ophthalmologists are complaining about how optometry will take over, anesthesiologists are complaining about high malpractice insurance, and busy lifestyles etc etc etc. People are soooo worried about jobs and money. The fact of the matter is, that your job will be what you make of it. If you are hardworking and determined, you will be a great optometrist and the rewards will come, financially and personally. Keep in mind, there are a lot of optometrists out there who chose optometry just because they didnt get into med school. They are the med student wanna bes who are lazier than their counterparts because they didn't work hard in college. Watch out for these people, a lot of them post on this forum (i.e. reality check).

One optometrist that I currently work for has been a great inspiration to me. He has a Ph.D in addition to his O.D., and he writes books, gives lectures, and is involved in more comittees and groups than you can imagine. This is all of course combined with his practice that deals only with rare eye diseases such as keratoconus, cataract surgery patients, etc. He does not do regular eye exams, and since his services are so unique his exam fees are high, close to the 300 dollar range. He makes roughly $175,000 a year. But he is a special case because he is such a talented, hard working individual. Keep in mind that he works 9-5, mon-fri.

Another optometrist I worked for has his own private practice in san diego, and he makes about $120,000 a year working FOUR days a week, YES FOUR. However, he owns the office and doesnt pay rent, which saves him a lot of money. Every friday he goes golfing, and he is always able to spend time with his family, go to his sons baseball games, etc.

If it is money you are worried about, then consider this. Yes, physicians do get paid more, but this is because they are much more highly trained. You wanna be an anesthesiologist for example, you will go to med school for four years, four years of residency training, and a 2 year fellowship before you can start work. You will be well into your 30s, working 55-60 hours a week, living on the edge every day, a patient could die on you at any moment. There are sugeries, blood, stress, long hours. However, the payoff is amazing. $250,000+ a year. After taxes and malpractice insurance, that will become 140,000. Is this worth 10 years of your life studying 10 hours a day? The choice is yours, if you want to take that path, and you have a passion for it, the rewards are great. I, on the other hand, prefer to work 40 hours a week and go to optometry school for 4 years. Yes, the pay is less, you will not be filthy rich on your salary alone. HOWEVER, most rich people make their way to the top in other ways. All of my 8+ uncles are millionaires because of how the handled their money. They came from iraq in their early 20s, worked in liquor stores for 70+ hours a week for a small salary. but they saved their money, they invested. Eventually they saved enough money to buy the liquor store. Years later they would make other investments, i.e. buy a gas station and sell it for way more a few years later. Now they all own properties, like hotels, stores, etc. and reap the profits every month.

You want to be rich? If you make close to 100,000 a year as an optometrist, don't be like everyone else and just spend that salary. You have the fortune of working such excellent hours in a stress free environment. Save that money. Over the years, you will have enough to make investments and get rich that way. Just my 2 cents. Don't be scared to do optomety because of the money or saturated job market. You will find a job if you are hardworking and make connections.


Chaldobruin I loved that post...well said! I wish more people thought like you when it comes to optometry. 🙂
 
well said chaldobruin... 🙂 Be good at what you do, go on extern, make connections, be friendly... the offers will follow. Optometry is all what you put into it... not what it can give you.
 
A few words of wisdom I was told: "You will never be RICH as just an OD, but you will be VERY well off. This affords you the opportunity to invest and become rich."
 
Bravehrt said:
Does anyone know if the market for eye care is being saturated by the number of optometrist in the profession. If so, is this pressure playing a role in some optometrists working for Walmart(many of which are begining to notice strong corporate influence on their practice? I want to hear some opinions of possible consequences of a saturated market and what we can do. Also what do you think about Walmart's manipulations on the optometric profession.

Bravehrt
Yes the market is saturated with o.d.'s & m.d.'s . I know many recent grads that are having trouble finding a decent job.
 
rpames said:
A few words of wisdom I was told: "You will never be RICH as just an OD, but you will be VERY well off. This affords you the opportunity to invest and become rich."
What constitutes very well off ? When I was a student (1992 to 1996) I thought 80,000 dollars was a lot of money, boy was I wrong.
 
chaldobruin said:
Braveheart, don't listen to what a lot of people say on these forums about optometry. All people do is complain about saturation, money, _______ (inside whatever reason here). You will see this trend in every forum, ophthalmologists are complaining about how optometry will take over, anesthesiologists are complaining about high malpractice insurance, and busy lifestyles etc etc etc. People are soooo worried about jobs and money. The fact of the matter is, that your job will be what you make of it. If you are hardworking and determined, you will be a great optometrist and the rewards will come, financially and personally. Keep in mind, there are a lot of optometrists out there who chose optometry just because they didnt get into med school. They are the med student wanna bes who are lazier than their counterparts because they didn't work hard in college. Watch out for these people, a lot of them post on this forum (i.e. reality check).

One optometrist that I currently work for has been a great inspiration to me. He has a Ph.D in addition to his O.D., and he writes books, gives lectures, and is involved in more comittees and groups than you can imagine. This is all of course combined with his practice that deals only with rare eye diseases such as keratoconus, cataract surgery patients, etc. He does not do regular eye exams, and since his services are so unique his exam fees are high, close to the 300 dollar range. He makes roughly $175,000 a year. But he is a special case because he is such a talented, hard working individual. Keep in mind that he works 9-5, mon-fri.

Another optometrist I worked for has his own private practice in san diego, and he makes about $120,000 a year working FOUR days a week, YES FOUR. However, he owns the office and doesnt pay rent, which saves him a lot of money. Every friday he goes golfing, and he is always able to spend time with his family, go to his sons baseball games, etc.

If it is money you are worried about, then consider this. Yes, physicians do get paid more, but this is because they are much more highly trained. You wanna be an anesthesiologist for example, you will go to med school for four years, four years of residency training, and a 2 year fellowship before you can start work. You will be well into your 30s, working 55-60 hours a week, living on the edge every day, a patient could die on you at any moment. There are sugeries, blood, stress, long hours. However, the payoff is amazing. $250,000+ a year. After taxes and malpractice insurance, that will become 140,000. Is this worth 10 years of your life studying 10 hours a day? The choice is yours, if you want to take that path, and you have a passion for it, the rewards are great. I, on the other hand, prefer to work 40 hours a week and go to optometry school for 4 years. Yes, the pay is less, you will not be filthy rich on your salary alone. HOWEVER, most rich people make their way to the top in other ways. All of my 8+ uncles are millionaires because of how the handled their money. They came from iraq in their early 20s, worked in liquor stores for 70+ hours a week for a small salary. but they saved their money, they invested. Eventually they saved enough money to buy the liquor store. Years later they would make other investments, i.e. buy a gas station and sell it for way more a few years later. Now they all own properties, like hotels, stores, etc. and reap the profits every month.

You want to be rich? If you make close to 100,000 a year as an optometrist, don't be like everyone else and just spend that salary. You have the fortune of working such excellent hours in a stress free environment. Save that money. Over the years, you will have enough to make investments and get rich that way. Just my 2 cents. Don't be scared to do optomety because of the money or saturated job market. You will find a job if you are hardworking and make connections.
100,000 dollars / year is not going to support a wife with two kids. So what money am I saving? Tuition at a private school is ~ 25,000 per year. Do the math.
 
my dad raised myself and my brother (with a stay at home mom) on a LOT less than that... and we were NOT poor. I lacked for nothing...

I agree it's rough coming out of school with 100k in debt. If you're that concerned about it.. seriously consider going to a public school instead of a private (there are out of state tuition wavers available at state schools). Ultimately it's your decision whether the money is worth it.


100k does go a long way. I'm living on less than 20k a year now.. and I'm poor yes, but I have food, rent, AC, friends. Now, if I were in CA with that amount of debt and making 100k a year I agree it's not enough to support an entire family. But, maybe then living the CA lifestyle isn't really worth it. It's something I evaluated when I decided to pack up and leave CA. Living in another state where my money goes TWICE as far and the homes don't cost 600k made a LOT more sense to me. I don't care how pretty the view is outside my window if I have to work three jobs to pay for it. That's not a life.

I don't NEED an Audi. I don't NEED to send my kids to private school... i don't NEED a 4000 sq foot home. I don't NEED a vacation home. Those are all wants... and I know there will be sacrifices while I pay off my debt. But, the life I'm living now is 10x better than the one where I made 1/4 as much and hated every day I got up to work.
 
cpw said:
my dad raised myself and my brother (with a stay at home mom) on a LOT less than that... and we were NOT poor. I lacked for nothing...

I agree it's rough coming out of school with 100k in debt. If you're that concerned about it.. seriously consider going to a public school instead of a private (there are out of state tuition wavers available at state schools). Ultimately it's your decision whether the money is worth it.


100k does go a long way. I'm living on less than 20k a year now.. and I'm poor yes, but I have food, rent, AC, friends. Now, if I were in CA with that amount of debt and making 100k a year I agree it's not enough to support an entire family. But, maybe then living the CA lifestyle isn't really worth it. It's something I evaluated when I decided to pack up and leave CA. Living in another state where my money goes TWICE as far and the homes don't cost 600k made a LOT more sense to me. I don't care how pretty the view is outside my window if I have to work three jobs to pay for it. That's not a life.

I don't NEED an Audi. I don't NEED to send my kids to private school... i don't NEED a 4000 sq foot home. I don't NEED a vacation home. Those are all wants... and I know there will be sacrifices while I pay off my debt. But, the life I'm living now is 10x better than the one where I made 1/4 as much and hated every day I got up to work.

cpw,
I love your attitude baby !! 😍

( and i love reading your posts) you're gonna make a very cool O.D

just...let me get this out of the way,
for all you people that are considering optometry school..i was in your position and scared and nervous and wigged out, i got on SDN almost everyday and posted questions and had discussions and !! also sent cpw some MORE questions about opt. school etc. etc....
I learned A LOT from her ( and from Dr. Doan too...) trust me,
im in opt. school now, i love every minute of it; listen to what cpw ( and dr. doan) have to say about things in general, they've been around and really truely enjoy helping others.......

i've not been on this forum for quite a while as optometry school is pretty intense...i miss coming on the forum and having discussions,
people! enjoy every piece of advice on this forum b/c once you start opt. school.....
YOU WONT HAVE TIME TO COMPLAIN ABOUT ANYTHING ....

if you have any questions about NECO ( im in Boston now) shoot them my way, i'll try to make time to answer them , K....
optometry is a beautiful profession and once you get involved...you're hooked !

k, i gotta get back to studying.... 😎
 
awww I 😍 you too Tony !! 🙂

Glad you're enjoying school.....

Okay back to studying for Part 2 for me. And watching the Horns BEAT OSU !! :horns: :horns:

Hook 'em
Cpw
 
HOLLYWOOD said:
What constitutes very well off ? When I was a student (1992 to 1996) I thought 80,000 dollars was a lot of money, boy was I wrong.

I think he/she is no longer a student.
 
cpw said:
my dad raised myself and my brother (with a stay at home mom) on a LOT less than that... and we were NOT poor. I lacked for nothing...

I agree it's rough coming out of school with 100k in debt. If you're that concerned about it.. seriously consider going to a public school instead of a private (there are out of state tuition wavers available at state schools). Ultimately it's your decision whether the money is worth it.


100k does go a long way. I'm living on less than 20k a year now.. and I'm poor yes, but I have food, rent, AC, friends. Now, if I were in CA with that amount of debt and making 100k a year I agree it's not enough to support an entire family. But, maybe then living the CA lifestyle isn't really worth it. It's something I evaluated when I decided to pack up and leave CA. Living in another state where my money goes TWICE as far and the homes don't cost 600k made a LOT more sense to me. I don't care how pretty the view is outside my window if I have to work three jobs to pay for it. That's not a life.

I don't NEED an Audi. I don't NEED to send my kids to private school... i don't NEED a 4000 sq foot home. I don't NEED a vacation home. Those are all wants... and I know there will be sacrifices while I pay off my debt. But, the life I'm living now is 10x better than the one where I made 1/4 as much and hated every day I got up to work.
I lived like a college student once also but after awhile you get tired of it. Everyone starts upgrading there lifestyle after college/ o.d. school not maintaining the status quo.
 
chaldobruin said:
I have a question for you Hollywood. Are you attending optometry school right now? I hope not, you would be a disgrace to the profession. Optometry is not for you if you think that 100,000 a year is not enough to support a wife and two kids. Are you on crack?? Or are you just plain stupid? Most people would die for anything even close to a six figure salary.
How much do your parents make? Im really curious.

Hollywood, you are assuming of plethora of things with your statement. You imply that 1-you will have a wife and two kids coming out of opt school, and lots of expenses. 2-your wife will not work. It is so rare nowadays to have a woman who is a just a housewife. I go to UCLA, most of my classes are filled with women. Med school applicants, dental applicants, optometry applicants, law school applicants are more than 50% women usually. If you and your wife both make $80,000 lets say, is that not enough to save?????

The fact is, Hollywood, that people making higher than $100,000 have worked hard to make that money. Businessmen, Lawyers, etc. that are millionaires are the type of people who have ingenuity, creativity, drive, i.e. someone who starts their own business, creates a program, etc. Even professional athletes dedicate years staying in shape and practicing harder to become the best. Becoming an MD that makes that much money also takes more work than you can imagine. If you indeed have drive to become successful, tell yourself that you will be the best at what you do. You want to make money, take business classes, read books, work more 2 jobs or more hours to save, do whatever it takes. But this is of course assuming you not some lazy bum who chose optometry because you couldnt get into med school. In that case you are a loser and I can't help you.
1.if you make 100,000 how much do you net?
2.do you much do you think life ins., health ins. malpractice, disability all cost?
3. nursery school, babysitter .
4. realestate taxes.
5. car payments and ins.
6.student loans
you have no clue and I would venture to guess that you are the idiot and loser in this conversation.
 
HOLLYWOOD said:
1.if you make 100,000 how much do you net?
2.do you much do you think life ins., health ins. malpractice, disability all cost?

I have a wife and 2 kids. We will make around $100,000/year next year in Los Angeles during fellowship. I've budgeted and will do fine.

BTW, malpractice for optometry is very low. In fact, we see the (medical malpractice) insurance premium sitting at $412 a year for $2 million in coverage ? less than $500 for an upper limit of $3 million.

I've broken down how much income $136K/year will be in a previous thread. These calculations are for a FP physician making $136K/year, but you can make the adjustments for a person who makes $100K/year. I think it's enough money to support a family of four. I won't be buying a $1 million dollar home in California, but I can rent a house for about $2000-$2500/month.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=101742
 
Just a friendly moderatorial comment to certain posters on this thread: no name-calling, please. We can have a lively discussion with differing opinions without the need to make personal attacks.

Please be considerate of others. 🙂
 
Andrew_Doan said:
I have a wife and 2 kids. We will make around $100,000/year next year in Los Angeles during fellowship. I've budgeted and will do fine.

BTW, malpractice for optometry is very low. In fact, we see the (medical malpractice) insurance premium sitting at $412 a year for $2 million in coverage ? less than $500 for an upper limit of $3 million.

I've broken down how much income $136K/year will be in a previous thread. These calculations are for a FP physician making $136K/year, but you can make the adjustments for a person who makes $100K/year. I think it's enough money to support a family of four. I won't be buying a $1 million dollar home in California, but I can rent a house for about $2000-$2500/month.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=101742
But can you BUY and afford a $ 500,000 house?
 
HOLLYWOOD said:
But can you BUY and afford a $ 500,000 house?

No. So I'll commute like everyone else & buy a house for $350,000, or rent an apartment or a house for $2000/month until the inflated housing market crashes. 😉

Remember, it's a choice to live in LA. I can also live in many other parts of the country where I can afford 90% of the houses on the market.
 
Andrew_Doan said:
Remember, it's a choice to live in LA. I can also live in many other parts of the country where I can afford 90% of the houses on the market.

exactly the point i made earlier, Andrew. 🙂 I didn't think the CA lifestyle was worth the 600k house to me. (and that was for the cheap ones) The boyfriend and I just bought a place in the nicest part of Tampa... and we'll be very happy here 6 blocks from the bay 😍
 
hollywood sounds like a guy who wants the luxuries of life without going through the process of sacrifice for it. if you want to be a health professional, you gotta pay your dues, but it sounds like 4 years of additional training is too much hardship for you.

in that case, go be a businessman. it's the only other way to make good money because most high paying professions require additional training, which you're reluctant to go through. bill gates never completed college. but how many gates are there in the world? bottom line, there is no easier way to 6 figure salary than a professional degree, unless you're really extraordinary in some way

otherwise, i hope you have wealthy parents. you just criticize other people for ONLY making 100k and don't have 500k houses. well, let's see how well you do.
 
Bravehrt said:
Does anyone know if the market for eye care is being saturated by the number of optometrist in the profession. If so, is this pressure playing a role in some optometrists working for Walmart(many of which are begining to notice strong corporate influence on their practice? I want to hear some opinions of possible consequences of a saturated market and what we can do. Also what do you think about Walmart's manipulations on the optometric profession.

Bravehrt

walmart is bad in general
 
You can't take an OD degree away from an Optometrist.
He is a professional in that field for life.

I think that is priceless.

After the OD, money will come to you - it just depends how you treat it.
 
For what it's worth let me add my two cents.

I have a unique perspective I think.

My dad is an optometrist in Oklahoma City. He has a nice practice. I think he makes around 80K per year, working Monday through Friday noon from about ten to five in the afternoon (except Fridays as above).

He's been in practice for thirty years (the same number of years of my life!). Optometry has been good to him. He's pretty old school. My mom is his office help/receptionist. He sees about 8-10 patients a day. Dispenses glasses and contacts from the office. Doesn't really have any big profit centers such as sunglasses or supplements as some do. (I've encouraged these things but he is stubborn!)

My point is that he has a really good life. He thinks he's working hard, but he's really not. 😀 I grew up in a really nice home on a really nice lake. I never lacked for anything. We were never rich but we had an excellent life growing up. Just a really secure, lazy suburban existence.

He's told me in the past that sometimes he wishes he had gone into denistry or medicine. Not that he doesn't enjoy optometry, just that he sees the greater financial rewards of the other.

He encouraged me not to follow in his footsteps.

So I didn't. I'm in Emergency Medicine.

A little over a year from now I will be making >300K working 15 days a month. The responsibility and liability will be much greater, as will the stress of my day. But as I train for it I know I will be able to handle it.

I've already told him that when he retires I'm planning on taking over his practice. I'm going to extend the office hours to 8am to 6pm, hire a new grad optometrist, triple the number of pts. seen per day, and pay the doc around 60K per year. I'll keep the difference. That is what optometry has become thanks to the chain stores and WalMart.

The public expects McDonalds service with McDonalds prices. That's just what I'm going to give them.

My dad is an excellent doc. He gives WAY to much of himself to these people. He puts so much effort and attention to detail into his refractions, keratometry, etc. They don't appreciate it. They don't care. They just want the service quickly and cheaply. Fine, they will get it.

I respect the optometrist who takes pride in the job they do and the service they provide. Too bad nobody else does.

Medicine has the same problem. We just get paid more. That will change.
 
edinOH, it sounds to me like your father's practice is the kind of place where yes, you will get people who only care about price and getting in and out. But small, private practices like that also tend to have a decent sized loyal patient base. There are many people who will pay a little extra to have a optometrist who actually seems to care about them as people and who takes the extra time to make sure everything is done right.

I'd hate to see quality like that go out the window, there's enough wal-marts and costcos already.
 
edinOH said:
For what it's worth let me add my two cents.

I have a unique perspective I think.

I've already told him that when he retires I'm planning on taking over his practice. I'm going to extend the office hours to 8am to 6pm, hire a new grad optometrist, triple the number of pts. seen per day, and pay the doc around 60K per year. I'll keep the difference. That is what optometry has become thanks to the chain stores and WalMart.

Good luck with that.

Most commercial establishments pay about 50% more than that. I don't know too many ODs, new or old that will work 8-6 5 days per week, seeing that many patients for $60000 per year.

Jenny
 
JennyW said:
Good luck with that.

Most commercial establishments pay about 50% more than that. I don't know too many ODs, new or old that will work 8-6 5 days per week, seeing that many patients for $60000 per year.

Jenny

not when wal-mart pays twice that in some places.
 
LestatZinnie said:
hollywood sounds like a guy who wants the luxuries of life without going through the process of sacrifice for it. if you want to be a health professional, you gotta pay your dues, but it sounds like 4 years of additional training is too much hardship for you.

in that case, go be a businessman. it's the only other way to make good money because most high paying professions require additional training, which you're reluctant to go through. bill gates never completed college. but how many gates are there in the world? bottom line, there is no easier way to 6 figure salary than a professional degree, unless you're really extraordinary in some way

otherwise, i hope you have wealthy parents. you just criticize other people for ONLY making 100k and don't have 500k houses. well, let's see how well you do.
My point is that you don't have to go to optom school to make $ 100,000. I know plenty of people who did not go to graduate school who make plenty of money. And just for your education I bust my butt 6 days/ week. I also have three offices.So maybe if your lucky I'll give you a job at $40/ hour seeing 30 patients/day. Because as you know vision plans pay ~$50 for a comp exam.The real world is difficult and the majority of new grads will have a difficult time opening a practice from scratch. good luck
 
LestatZinnie said:
hollywood sounds like a guy who wants the luxuries of life without going through the process of sacrifice for it. if you want to be a health professional, you gotta pay your dues, but it sounds like 4 years of additional training is too much hardship for you.

in that case, go be a businessman. it's the only other way to make good money because most high paying professions require additional training, which you're reluctant to go through. bill gates never completed college. but how many gates are there in the world? bottom line, there is no easier way to 6 figure salary than a professional degree, unless you're really extraordinary in some way

otherwise, i hope you have wealthy parents. you just criticize other people for ONLY making 100k and don't have 500k houses. well, let's see how well you do.
First of all I bust my butt six day's per week. So don't judge me on two posts.Second , I have three office's, what do you have ? or what do you think you'll have? The real world is difficult . optom schools are selling you a dream. You don't have to go to optom school to make $100,000. I know plenty of people who make in more than 100,000 and they did 'nt go to grad. school. So if you want to make money go to business school, if you want insurance companies to dictate how you practice and how much you make go to optometry school. Don't forget they are selling you a dream. $100,000 salary,$100,000 in student loans.
 
Andrew_Doan said:
edinOH,

What does your dad or you think about the recent legislation in OK allowing optometrists to do scalpel surgeries in your state?

Overall he is against it. Same with prescription rights. His outlook is that it isn't something he is necessarily trained in and he really doesn't see it adding much value to his practice or to the service provided to his patients. Just an increase in liability. He doesn't have a problem with writing for abx ointment for a simple blepharitis but he definitely wants nothing to do with PO meds. I think the problem is that the younger generation of optometrists are getting (or think they are getting) pharmacology training in optometry school and don't necessarily see the danger and added liability with prescriptive rights. Not all but some.

As far as the whole "surgery" issue is concerned, I think the real meat of the matter has been clouded by politics. I think at issue is the guy in rural OK who wants to remove a corneal foreign body, a couple of lid skin tags or maybe even a chalazion. I don't know if the ophthalmology establishment is against this just on principle or if they are truely concerned about safety. I think it is the former obviously. The problem of course is the precedent. I can guarantee you there will be the few out there who think they should be doing cataracts or lasik. There needs to be a distinction. I'm not familiar enough with the legislation to know if those distinctions were made.

Regarding my comment about taking over the practice. I'm not completely serious. More tounge in cheek. My point is that optometry today hardly resembles the optometry he chose and attempts to continue to practice. With the corporate practice of optometry as it is evolving today, it is becoming less of a profession and more of a service. As in getting your oil changed, hair cut, dog groomed etc. People don't appreciate the professional service and evaluation, just the bottom line. Oklahoma does have a law that keeps the likes of WalMart from employing professionals such as optometrists. As soon as WalMart decides that law needs to be changed I'm sure it will be.

Optometry is hardly alone. Medicine is going that way in many respects. We have a few more layers of insulation between the service industry and the professional arts, but that too is being eroded.

He has a great practice I think. I don't know how viable his model is for the future though. Most people aren't going to optometry school these days to make 80K I don't think. A professional with a doctorate level degree should be worth more. Plus, mom is the office help. She really runs the place because getting paid isn't just a matter of submitting a claim anymore. Getting paid is a full-time job as it is. That is an expense he doesn't have to pay for.

Yes he does have a good amount of loyal patients. There are a couple of people who he has been seeing since his first month of practice. The rest of his practice is predicated on the vision plan of the year, month and sometimes week.

Not trying to bash the profession. As I hope you can tell, I have great respect for it. I've watched my dad dedicate his professional life to it and it has been good to him and my family. Just sharing some thoughts.
 
cpw said:
not when wal-mart pays twice that in some places.

Walmart pays that much?!?!?!
 
cpw said:
not when wal-mart pays twice that in some places.

That is true. But wal-mart is very unappealing for many to work at.

I believe if enough of us create some sort of massive disaster aimed towards that of Walmart and other fast-optical chains, it will cause a disturbance that will allow optometrists to run their profession once more.

We must cause problems greater than mere law suits. Something that will cause fear in the eyes of every horrid business man in Walmart.
 
stompy said:
Walmart pays that much?!?!?!

they can yes ... I have many friends that worked there for two or three years... banked some money and then opened their own places.

also: you'll work the hours THEY tell you too and sometimes six or seven days a week
 
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