Saturation due to Foreign Dentists?

[Gen. Beauregard]

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Extract teeth in rusty shell of car with plastic knife and cleaning rod from AK-47.

 

[Mad Jack]

tell me what you can do an extremly trained foregin dentist can not do ?!!!!!

Well, I'm pretty sure our dental students can write complete, coherent sentences, as well as using proper capitalization and punctuation. That's got to count for something.

 

[Incis0r]

.

 

[Screwtape]

Whay do you know about foreign dentist !!! , did you make an impaction surgery when you were student ! I did , did you do a cyst removal surgery when you were a student i did , did you use implants when you were student ? I did , did you do a mandible fracture Fixation when you were student ? I did , tell me how many wisdom teeth do you extract when you were a student ?!!!! Did you try to extract teeth with other instrument because the specific forceps for these teeth are not sterile yet ?!, do you know that we should join a 2 year program to learn something we master at !!!! , do you know that we can do anything you can not do because we used to work with the least possible instruments ! , tell me if you were used to operate on people even i you knew that more than 50% percent of them have hepatitis c , tell me what you can do an extremly trained foregin dentist can not do ?!!!!!

Yes, but most of my patients survive the procedure.

 

[JustinAngeles]

Im a 3rd year dental student studying in the Philippines. I was born and raised in California but currently I'm following a plan that my parents, who are also dentists in california, came up with to try and help me become a licensed dentist in California without the huge debt. Ive been researching on how to get accepted into a school back home and I'm overwhelmed with the requirements that I need to be able to return. I see where you're coming from but I'm a little offended that you said "How do I know that dentists from other countries are not technicians. " We are definitely not technician, we have the same classes that all U.S. dental students take and I know this because my cousin is taking dental school back home as well. I have class Monday to Saturday lasting usually 7-5pm on a good day. On top of my classes I have clinical duty where I have to find my own patients, usually in the slums, who are mostly illegal settlers to accomplish all my requirements that are pages long. Dental school here already has me scared. Not to mention the thought if ill ever become a dentist back home. Its a hard task, but I'm praying to God to be able to pull this off.

 

[yappy]

Simply put, America is the land of opportunity. Of course foreign dentists will want to practice here! Like you and your ancestors, they just want a better future for themselves. What governmental policies and regulations decide for foreign dentists is out of your control. Don't worry about these matters, Zakl! Just work hard for what you want.

I think it's really important that the US critically look at its immigration policy like every other country in the world does. Most countries do not accept foreign credentials and the ones that do make it extremely difficult to immigrate there to do professionally licensed work. This is especially true in the health professions.
Technical issues aside, even if you overcome the racial issues in other countries due to their nearly monoracial society you still have not even begun address differences in culture. For some reason this is a given, and even expected, when stepping foot outside of the US but I think it's under-appreciated when moving to the US. These are important issues because they cannot be remedied with testing or additional schooling to abridge educational gaps.

In the US we are self governed and therefore government policies are within our control.

 

[B_dent]

Why don't you go do all that amaaaazing stuff where you were trained to do it.

Do not forget that your ancestor also was an immigrant so do not start this point !

 

[B_dent]

I am very close to certain this training took place in the town of Trollville. That ?????!!!! rant post gets a 2/10.

Well, I'm pretty sure our dental students can write complete, coherent sentences, as well as using proper capitalization and punctuation. That's got to count for something.

Tell me , how many languages do you speak ?!!!!

 

[Hannah Banana]

Im a 3rd year dental student studying in the Philippines. I was born and raised in California but currently I'm following a plan that my parents, who are also dentists in california, came up with to try and help me become a licensed dentist in California without the huge debt. Ive been researching on how to get accepted into a school back home and I'm overwhelmed with the requirements that I need to be able to return. I see where you're coming from but I'm a little offended that you said "How do I know that dentists from other countries are not technicians. " We are definitely not technician, we have the same classes that all U.S. dental students take and I know this because my cousin is taking dental school back home as well. I have class Monday to Saturday lasting usually 7-5pm on a good day. On top of my classes I have clinical duty where I have to find my own patients, usually in the slums, who are mostly illegal settlers to accomplish all my requirements that are pages long. Dental school here already has me scared. Not to mention the thought if ill ever become a dentist back home. Its a hard task, but I'm praying to God to be able to pull this off.

How much does it cost for dental school in the Philippines? How many years do you have to go through? (I'm just curious)

 

[oralcare123]

Don't we all hate competition? I think it is right to give an opportunity to work in their chosen profession for people, who immigrated legally and hold a resident or citizen status. At the same time I find it very strange, that, for example, a lot of freshly graduated dentists from India, with no resident status whatsoever come and compete with me

 

[l4dygaga]

Scared of competition? Move out of California. No one is going to hand anyone money on a silver plate. Everyone has the right to make a living. I think the solution is pretty clear, either: 1) Setup shop in a less populated area or 2) Take less pay to practice in the golden state. California isn't your birthright yo.

 

[oralcare123]

It is if I am a citizen and someone is just "visiting"

 

[DocJL]

Im a 3rd year dental student studying in the Philippines. I was born and raised in California but currently I'm following a plan that my parents, who are also dentists in california, came up with to try and help me become a licensed dentist in California without the huge debt. Ive been researching on how to get accepted into a school back home and I'm overwhelmed with the requirements that I need to be able to return. I see where you're coming from but I'm a little offended that you said "How do I know that dentists from other countries are not technicians. " We are definitely not technician, we have the same classes that all U.S. dental students take and I know this because my cousin is taking dental school back home as well. I have class Monday to Saturday lasting usually 7-5pm on a good day. On top of my classes I have clinical duty where I have to find my own patients, usually in the slums, who are mostly illegal settlers to accomplish all my requirements that are pages long. Dental school here already has me scared. Not to mention the thought if ill ever become a dentist back home. Its a hard task, but I'm praying to God to be able to pull this off.

Sorry to bust you bubble Justin, but some of the WORST dental work I have seen was done in the PI. Generally even worse than the work I have seen come out of Mexico or even Eastern Europe.

Dentists there are trained more like carpenters than doctors, and not even very good carpenters at that, based on what I see on a regular basis.


The fixed pros in particular is awful. Large bulky over contoured "elephant teeth" with no marginal adaptation, and I can't tell you how many times I have seen long span fixed partial dentures (bridges) placed on teeth with severe periodontal involvement. The crowning jewels of these cases are the ones using cantilever abutments, often with 2 or 3 teeth hanging off of 2 periodontally unstable teeth. Which brings up the COMPLETE lack of diagnosis and treatment of periodontal disease.

Good luck with your dreams, but much of what you are learning in the PI will have to be RELEARNED, if you are to become a clinically acceptable provider in this country.

 

[StrugglingDS]

Sorry to bust you bubble Justin, but some of the WORST dental work I have seen was done in the PI. Generally even worse than the work I have seen come out of Mexico or even Eastern Europe.

Dentists there are trained more like carpenters than doctors, and not even very good carpenters at that, based on what I see on a regular basis.


The fixed pros in particular is awful. Large bulky over contoured "elephant teeth" with no marginal adaptation, and I can't tell you how many times I have seen long span fixed partial dentures (bridges) placed on teeth with severe periodontal involvement. The crowning jewels of these cases are the ones using cantilever abutments, often with 2 or 3 teeth hanging off of 2 periodontally unstable teeth. Which brings up the COMPLETE lack of diagnosis and treatment of periodontal disease.

Good luck with your dreams, but much of what you are learning in the PI will have to be RELEARNED, if you are to become a clinically acceptable provider in this country.

With a heavy heart, I completely agree with this. In my dental school, about 60% of our dental assistants are licensed dentists in the Philippines who never made it through the rigorous licensing requirements here in the US. While dental students here in the US and in the Philippines technically take the same types of clinical classes, the standards they are upheld to are definitely different. Dental students in the Philippines do not have as much biomedical science training as dental students here in the US and, hence, majority of them cannot even pass NBDE Part 1.

One my classmate's mom is a Philippine-educated dentist who made it through the licensing requirements here and is currently practicing. But guess what, she said she never had to wax teeth while in dental school and was never thought how to perform head and neck exam. She also learned majority of oral and maxillofacial pathology when she studied for US NBDE and not when she was in school back in PI. When her daughter asked for her help in our first semester Head and Neck Anatomy, she didn't even know more than half of what we were learning.

 

[Dr. Moon]

+1


Aint no on here trying to put you down. He is just stating facts.

Here are the facts
1. They take the same exact classes as you and I DO in dental school.
2. many countries the dental school is 5 years. and after that they usually work for couple years or even more before moving to USA.
3. Once they are in USA they have to take Both NBDE I & II and get a certain score in order to be accepted into dental school. and its very competitive. Hence usually they do a masters degree in USA (+30k -45 k in student debt). While doing masters they usually do some kind of research(CONTRIBUTING TO SOCIETY)
4. Once they are accepted into 2 year program, Some school makes them repeat couple of basic science classes ALONG with the clinical that you and i do during our 3rd and 4th year. so they are over worked.
5. Once they graduate, unlike you and me if they are not a citizen or green card holder they are only eligible to work at practices such as the ones that only accept medicare and medicaid. aka dental mills. until they receive their residency. So they are exploited and over worked.
6. Yet they have more experience then their fellow dental students. there is a very systematic procedure set in place. You cannot be a technician and still pass NBDE both parts. every single thing they do has to be verified.

Upon all the troubles they face we have it way easy. From what i understand america is a mixed pot and if you have what it takes you will be well rewarded for you skill. If you wine and complain that ohh they are taking your jobs away etc... guess what, its happening to every single field. You cannot stop people from immigrating to US. just like your family every one wishes to have a better life and US is a land of opportunity and here if you work hard you will get it.

And btw you comment regarding people going to these countries to practice" India? Japan? UK?" i dont know about UK but the rest of those countries you listed pay extremely less for dental. They would be lucky if they can make 20% of what an entry level dentist earn in US. If its the other way around, i bet you will be the first one to immigrate to china. So just b/c you are very ignorant does not mean that they should start restricting people from pursuing their dreams. I know how crammed California is and guess what all you can do is move out of there to some other state and practice. its no big deal. There are still plenty of jobs for dentists and you will still be able to pay of your loans.

And your comment of is there a huge demand for health care? are you that naive why do you think new professions such as PHD in nursing, masters in nursing, physician assistant(some states you can practice without phy. supervision), DENTAL THERAPISTS are being created. Because there is a shortage. If the shortage persists their will decrease in quality of care provided.

I know this is a post is old, but I want to thank you for explain this, you did it better then me. I'm A foreign Dentist and my biggest struggle is my bad English but still I'm trying to go into all this process, now I'm facing all this obstacles to come and be somebody in the USA, I work hard in country to become a professional woman and I will just say that you never know what life have prepared for you, long story short, I didn't expect to one day on a visiting my friends in SD I come to cross with my real true love and so I ended here and now we are married. And I don't like to give up, so still I'm fighting to be come what I want to be, a Dentist.
I'm happy that not all the Dentist in USA have the same mentality, and still some of them have respect for a Foreign Dentist.
I will say your explanation is perfection.

 

[Dr. Moon]

What do you know about foreign dentist !!! , did you make an impaction surgery when you were student ! I did , did you do a cyst removal surgery when you were a student i did , did you use implants when you were student ? I did , did you do a mandible fracture Fixation when you were student ? I did , tell me how many wisdom teeth do you extract when you were a student ?!!!! Did you try to extract teeth with other instrument because the specific forceps for these teeth are not sterile yet ?!, do you know that we should join a 2 year program to learn something we master at !!!! , do you know that we can do anything you can not do because we used to work with the least possible instruments ! , tell me if you were used to operate on people even i you knew that more than 50% percent of them have hepatitis c , tell me what you can do an extremly trained foregin dentist can not do ?!!!!!

Yes we have a lot of practice and confidence, some of us also did a social services for 1 year 5 days per week and 7 hours every day with no pay, and I work in a total of 700 patients, I did extractions, obturations, cleanings, root canals, pulpotomies, etc etc. And I will even need a dental assistant.
And some other dentists work more them me because my clinic was small. Some others have almost 1000 in 1 year.

 

[BlueToothHunter]

America is simply too great of a country to only limit yourself to a couple of big cities in California. Explore a little, head to the mountains, the Great Plains, live in four different seasons.... California is not the only place in the US for dentists.

 

[oralcare123]

Foreign trained dentists have unique histories, and can't be bundled into a group, in terms of training and experience. The dentist I shadowed is from the Philippines, and had worked as a dentist for 15 years before emigrating. He did the same two years of ds plus a two year residency before practicing in the US.

As far as allowing immigrants to compete equally with Americans, I like how Canada does it. (I'm no expert, just relaying what I know to be true, correct me if you know better). It's hard to get into Canada- you have to show you have skills they need, or you have to be accepted as a refugee- but once you're there, they want you to fulfill your potential. They don't educate people then send them home like we do here.

My take on your situation is, move to where your skills are needed. Immigration is a key component of our success as a society, and restricting people because they're too capable of thriving here is a bad reaction. Those who make bad dentists won't glut the market for long. Worrying about other people, and wanting to restrict their rights so your life is easier, seems like a cop out to me, and it doesn't reflect we'll on your estimation of your own abilities. That may be why you gave another poster the idea that you aren't a good student.

O, you are so mistaken about Canada. They do ask to prove that you have skills and proper education, even match you to a profession, which is in demand inside Canada. Then after you come to Canada and start looking for a job they suddenly tell you, that you have to start your education from the very beginning or ask you to fulfill unfulfillable requirements. That is why highly educated people there work entry level jobs