Saturation in California an urban legend?

[Modest_anteater]

Everyone I talk to in California tells me how bad saturation is and how hard is it to get a job, how it's one of the worst states ... ect.

But then I look at data like this that shows:

PDI

California with a 3.9 or one of the most in demand areas for pharmacists in the nation. Is the saturation only related to LA / SF with a massive surplus in the Valley and northern "Jefferson" area? OR are people misrepresenting their complaints. When they complain of saturation they really are complaining of the high cost of living to relatively low pharmacist pay but are too embarrassed to espouse this argument because they would have to admit to being poor?

thoughts? comments? can anyone disrepute their data on Cali?

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[Peterpiper1]

My theory is that the oversaturation only applies to the major metropolitan areas of the state, where people actually want to live i.e. San Fran, LA, SoCal, etc.
places outside the city, might have better prospects. This applies to most of the country.
California is a massive state I’m sure that PDI is taking into account the large rural areas that have trouble attracting pharmacists.

 

[confettiflyer]

If you’re a 5 year experienced + PGY-1 trained hybrid clinical/staff pharmacist with good recommendations...you’ll be hired up pretty quickly.

Contrast to a new grad with zero work experience = unemployable in any metro area > 50,000 people

It’s all a spectrum off of those points, IMO


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[Modest_anteater]

My theory is that the oversaturation only applies to the major metropolitan areas of the state, where people actually want to live i.e. San Fran, LA, SoCal, etc.
places outside the city, might have better prospects. This applies to most of the country.
California is a massive state I’m sure that PDI is taking into account the large rural areas that have trouble attracting pharmacists.

If you’re a 5 year experienced + PGY-1 trained hybrid clinical/staff pharmacist with good recommendations...you’ll be hired up pretty quickly.

Contrast to a new grad with zero work experience = unemployable in any metro area > 50,000 people

It’s all a spectrum off of those points, IMO


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Thanks for the feedback guys. I agree the massive rural areas of California must be compensating the demand greatly in Cali and overcompensating for the severe saturation in LA/Sandiego/SF

 

[samven582]

If you’re a 5 year experienced + PGY-1 trained hybrid clinical/staff pharmacist with good recommendations...you’ll be hired up pretty quickly.

Contrast to a new grad with zero work experience = unemployable in any metro area > 50,000 people

It’s all a spectrum off of those points, IMO


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what if you had 5 years of experience with no PGY-1 but trained yourself to be a clinical/staff pharmacist?

 

[gwarm01]

what if you had 5 years of experience with no PGY-1 but trained yourself to be a clinical/staff pharmacist?

You'll be sent to the work camps.

 

[Transformer]

Job saturation in California is NOT a myth nor an urban legend

With 5 new pharmacy schools opening in California in the last 5 years, at least 2 more on its way (UCI, AUHS), plus out of state new grads flowing in, the saturation is REAL!

List of pharmacy schools in the United States - Wikipedia

It is now common for new grads to report not having a full time job in California. For those with a job, conditions are poor (floater schedule, insufficient hours (<32 hours), per diem/no benefits, high stress, lower starting pay than previous years). On the brighter side, job>no job. If you don't like it, you can quit because there are plenty of new grads with 200K+ student loan willing to take your job for lower pay.

 

[Transformer]

If you’re a 5 year experienced + PGY-1 trained hybrid clinical/staff pharmacist with good recommendations...you’ll be hired up pretty quickly.

Contrast to a new grad with zero work experience = unemployable in any metro area > 50,000 people

It’s all a spectrum off of those points, IMO


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I generally agree with 5 years experience + PGY1 + certification might land you an interview and a desired job but in areas of California where it's super saturated, hospitals can't even hire their own residents. Most new residents are relocating to less saturated areas, taking on a longer commute, or signing up for per diem hospital staff positions, waiting for a full time hospital job opening.

 

[PetMed]

Saturation is only in Orange county...

 

[Momus]

Every new floaters I met in San Diego is guaranteed no hours (part time), working 0-32 hours/week for 2 yrs+. They just keep complaining they don't get enough hours. After a couple months to a yr/a yr and a half, a bunch of them quit and move to a sh1tty area with bad public schools/health care in 115-120F weather because the need the $$$. I guess they can't wait forever for a full time job. I don't know how long BFE areas can support incoming new grads. I'm expecting this yr will be the last yr (4-5 new schools graduating its first batch of pharmacists) when they can just pack up and move for a full time job.

 

[Momus]

Saturation is only in Orange county...

OC has been saturated since 2008. Nothing new here. Everyone and their moms and uncle are Vietnamese and they are all pharmacists (and this isnt a joke either).

 

[babybull]

If you’re a 5 year experienced + PGY-1 trained hybrid clinical/staff pharmacist with good recommendations...you’ll be hired up pretty quickly.

Contrast to a new grad with zero work experience = unemployable in any metro area > 50,000 people

It’s all a spectrum off of those points, IMO


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Not always true though. I worked 0 hours during pharmacy school (I also skipped classes and just took life easy and this was no secret) and was hired a few months after graduation at a large PBM in sunny San Diego. No connections whatsoever, but I thought the interview went really well.

 

[student089]

Not always true though. I worked 0 hours during pharmacy school (I also skipped classes and just took life easy and this was no secret) and was hired a few months after graduation at a large PBM in sunny San Diego. No connections whatsoever, but I thought the interview went really well.

Didnt you do a residency?

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[UCSF2021]

The job market is super good in BFE, not so good in metro areas

 

[PharmtoCS]

The job market is super good in BFE, not so good in metro areas

Really? Even the hospitals in BFE won’t even give you an interview unless if you have hospital experience and/or residency.

 

[DOOM N GLOOM]

The job market is super good in BFE, not so good in metro areas

UCSF 2021? Brainwashed P1 thinking there are jobs?

 

[mentos]

I know a Rph who lives in OC and commutes to SD to work one shift per week at CVS.

 

[PharmtoCS]

I know a Rph who lives in OC and commutes to SD to work one shift per week at CVS.

Ouch. Is that their only job?

 

[confettiflyer]

Not always true though. I worked 0 hours during pharmacy school (I also skipped classes and just took life easy and this was no secret) and was hired a few months after graduation at a large PBM in sunny San Diego. No connections whatsoever, but I thought the interview went really well.

n=1, but not unheard of. We have a clinical pharmacist on staff we hired right out of school and trained...mostly because he was a stellar intern. Better investing in what you know vs don’t know, thatsbalso an n=1 uncommon (but more common than your) situation.

Plus a lot of it is timing. Not that you’re the best candidate ever, but you’re the best one for this particular moment and holy crap we need to hire someone.


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[mentos]

Ouch. Is that their only job?

No she has a hospital job but needs the extra money.

 

[Lnsean]

Is it really that saturated in Cali? Have you seen PharmDs working as baristas at Starbucks yet?

 

[DOOM N GLOOM]

Is it really that saturated in Cali? Have you seen PharmDs working as baristas at Starbucks yet?

I’ve seen the uber drivers

 

[grumpyRph]

i'm in san francisco. i moved here in 2012 from the midwest. i was happy to get to the state. i've been with wag/z since i was a tech in 2006. i've been fortuante to always have full time and did a lot of overtime over the years too. this year is the first year there's been virtually no over time available. i still get my full 40 hours but i'm guessing that's attributed to my seniority with the company at this point.

however, even in 6 years the cost of living in SF is exponentially worse. if i had to do it all over again i wouldn't come here, but i was fresh out of school and 7 years younger so i was just excited for something new. didn't care about the roommate thing.

i have two points. 1) the cost of living is so bad here in SF, it should keep anyone with a pharmacist's salary OUT! like yeah it'd be dumb to come here if you want to own or rent alone. so does that keep sf a little LESS saturated with pharmacists? 2) i still have full time 40 hours. so i actually don't wanna rock the boat until i have to.I don't wanna move now while my hours are steady. based on observations from this forum, i don't wanna end up some place with 24-32 hours not knowing my shifts and locations.

so that's just my little two cents. just a glimpse into a situation for a 32 yo pharmacist in sf!

 

[PharmtoCS]

Is it really that saturated in Cali? Have you seen PharmDs working as baristas at Starbucks yet?

They could very well be unemployed and living with parents while on IBR.

There are a lot of floaters getting as few as 2-3 8 hour shifts per week. If most or all new grads work an average of 20 hours each week that still means that there are nearly twice as many pharmacists being churned out for every available full time equivalent.

 

[GrandTheftAutumn]

i'm in san francisco. i moved here in 2012 from the midwest. i was happy to get to the state. i've been with wag/z since i was a tech in 2006. i've been fortuante to always have full time and did a lot of overtime over the years too. this year is the first year there's been virtually no over time available. i still get my full 40 hours but i'm guessing that's attributed to my seniority with the company at this point.

however, even in 6 years the cost of living in SF is exponentially worse. if i had to do it all over again i wouldn't come here, but i was fresh out of school and 7 years younger so i was just excited for something new. didn't care about the roommate thing.

i have two points. 1) the cost of living is so bad here in SF, it should keep anyone with a pharmacist's salary OUT! like yeah it'd be dumb to come here if you want to own or rent alone. so does that keep sf a little LESS saturated with pharmacists? 2) i still have full time 40 hours. so i actually don't wanna rock the boat until i have to.I don't wanna move now while my hours are steady. based on observations from this forum, i don't wanna end up some place with 24-32 hours not knowing my shifts and locations.

so that's just my little two cents. just a glimpse into a situation for a 32 yo pharmacist in sf!

If a pharmacist's salary isn't good enough to live in SF, who lives there then?
There are tons of jobs in SF that pays a lot less than pharmacists (techs, restaurants, grocery, etc etc).
Or do they just all commute from outside of SF?

 

[gwarm01]

If a pharmacist's salary isn't good enough to live in SF, who lives there then?
There are tons of jobs in SF that pays a lot less than pharmacists (techs, restaurants, grocery, etc etc).
Or do they just all commute from outside of SF?

SF is famous for it's tech industry which pays salaries much higher than pharmacy. It's also famous for an unbelievable cost of living that has driven working class people to the brink of extinction.

 

[mentos]

If a pharmacist's salary isn't good enough to live in SF, who lives there then?
There are tons of jobs in SF that pays a lot less than pharmacists (techs, restaurants, grocery, etc etc).
Or do they just all commute from outside of SF?

In CA, your property tax is based on the homes purchase price. So all those people who bought their homes in the 90s, 80s or earlier are paying next to nothing compared to their next door neighbor who bought their house this century. For renters, there's rent control like in NYC.

A pharmacist is middle class in SF. Plenty of people in tech make way more.

 

[GrandTheftAutumn]

Oh when I said techs, I meant pharmacy techs lol.

 

[grumpyRph]

If a pharmacist's salary isn't good enough to live in SF, who lives there then?
There are tons of jobs in SF that pays a lot less than pharmacists (techs, restaurants, grocery, etc etc).
Or do they just all commute from outside of SF?

i just meant if you want a certain lifestyle. that's why i specified, if you want to own or rent alone. i live like a college student still. lol

i met my roommate off craigslist 3 years ago and her bf has moved in since then. i have my own bedroom and bathroom though . i don't have a garage. no in unit w/d. lol.

 

[GrandTheftAutumn]

i just meant if you want a certain lifestyle. that's why i specified, if you want to own or rent alone. i live like a college student still. lol

i met my roommate off craigslist 3 years ago and her bf has moved in since then. i have my own bedroom and bathroom though . i don't have a garage. no in unit w/d. lol.

Still can't imagine not being able to live comfortably living alone with pharmacist's salary...

 

[Lid04pp1]

I generally agree with 5 years experience + PGY1 + certification might land you an interview and a desired job but in areas of California where it's super saturated, hospitals can't even hire their own residents. Most new residents are relocating to less saturated areas, taking on a longer commute, or signing up for per diem hospital staff positions, waiting for a full time hospital job opening.

I agree with the saturation, but I did landed some interviews near OC area, riverside, and LA. I didn't have any residency, but did work out of state in a rural area for 2 years. With my 2 years experiences, I got very lucky to get a job in a hospital that near my house. Yeah, I did also heard a lot of people will have to travel 2+ hours for retail jobs....it's kind of sad

 

[Sine Cura]

The number of panelists reporting data this quarter for analysis was smaller than in previous reporting cycles. The reduced response set of ratings was less than desired for state level analysis and result reporting.

PDI is a convenience sample.

Also "far north" California is an area the size of Pennsylvania with 30 people per square mile, max. It is basically an extension of southern Oregon. There are not that many jobs there.

The Central Valley is hot and dusty and the Imperial Valley is hotter, dustier, and less populated than the Central Valley, but these places are where people go when they can't get jobs in the megalopoli.

The Sacramento area probably offers the best value proposition for a pharmacist salary if you have full-time employment as long as you stick to less run-down areas like Placer County or Elk Grove (the further south the better) or Natomas, or Folsom/El Dorado Hills. LOL@ living on the "grid" when you have to have a car to get to work anyway.

A rating of 3.9 is way too high.

 

[nextyearrx]

My theory is that the oversaturation only applies to the major metropolitan areas of the state, where people actually want to live i.e. San Fran, LA, SoCal, etc.
places outside the city, might have better prospects. This applies to most of the country.
California is a massive state I’m sure that PDI is taking into account the large rural areas that have trouble attracting pharmacists.

Saturation (may be over saturation is all over the states now!!)

 

[headortail]

The Sacramento area probably offers the best value proposition for a pharmacist salary if you have full-time employment as long as you stick to less run-down areas like Placer County or Elk Grove (the further south the better) or Natomas, or Folsom/El Dorado Hills. LOL@ living on the "grid" when you have to have a car to get to work anyway.

Plus it has an airport that actually serves a lot of locations which easily beat the other medium-sized cities. Super convenient if you want to fly down to LA to visit the parents for the weekend, for example. It won't be best-value for too long though... Bay Area people are starting to get bored of trying to buy 600 sq ft house for 1 million, so there's been massive migration eastward. Every other person I talk to came from San Jose.

Yes, there are jobs outside of metro LA, SD, SF/Bay. For now. Not sure about when there will be a total of 8 schools within a 2 hr drive of LA in a couple of years. Clovis is not that far either, barely a 3 hr drive. Within the LA/OC counties area alone, there are 6 schools - Chapman, Keck, Marshall B Ketchum, USC, West Coast, and Western. I just read that statement and marveled at the sheer ridiculosity of it. I truly wonder if the whole state of CA will be able to support all the new grads.