Scared about OMM lab

[DocEspana]

Still a bit confused ... how is excluding yourself from an exercise that will help others learn a medical skill/procedure still not detrimental to someone's education? If not your own (most people learn a lot in both the "doctor" and "patient" role), then the experience of a fellow student who will be just as responsible for treating patients?

Listen, I'm 100% for respecting all religious beliefs, but I think people should keep certain things in mind when choosing a program traditionally associated with things like touching other people, palpating members of the opposite sex, wearing 'OMM' garb that may be slightly more revealing, working with cadavers, etc.

I apologize if that sounds offensive or close minded, but the bottom line, in my opinion, is that accommodations are still being made to 'alter' (to say the very least) someone's medical experience, which has effects down the road.

Frankly, I'm sure this is done every day in schools, but it does make me wonder where it finally 'ends.' Are you going to touch patients in residency? Will you stop doing compressions in the middle of a code because on some spiritual level you now think the patient is dead and shouldn't be handled any further? Are you going to refuse to see patients of a certain sex? Are you going to ask for accommodations from surgical attendings and residents during rotations??? It's all just part of the game, and like it or not, it's not for everyone. Again, that probably sounds a bit obtuse, but just the reality of the situation from my POV I suppose ...

No one is excluded. Its that the orthodox jewish women work with muslim women. Muslim men work with other men. Its simply pairing people off so that they dont have to be palpated by someone who would make them feel religiously uncomfortable.

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[JaggerPlate]

No one is excluded. Its that the orthodox jewish women work with muslim women. Muslim men work with other men. Its simply pairing people off so that they dont have to be palpated by someone who would make them feel religiously uncomfortable.

Which is fine, but my question (which is simply out of curiosity) is when does it end? Will the orthodox jewish women perform inguinal hernia exams on rotations? Or will they refuse and excuse themselves from each and every exam. Will the Muslim men perform paps and breast exams during clinicals and residency?

I guess my whole point is that no one is 'forcing' anyone to attend medical school and these accommodations are fine to a certain point, but it will eventually reach a level where you're either going to fail rotations, not have the ability to complete a residency, or go bankrupt from turning down patients.

I'm mainly curious too because I know for a fact we have people from very conservative backgrounds and faiths in my class and I haven't seen a single person skip out on anatomy, OTM, the awkward physical exams, etc.

 

[DocEspana]

Which is fine, but my question (which is simply out of curiosity) is when does it end? Will the orthodox jewish women perform inguinal hernia exams on rotations? Or will they refuse and excuse themselves from each and every exam. Will the Muslim men perform paps and breast exams during clinicals and residency?

I guess my whole point is that no one is 'forcing' anyone to attend medical school and these accommodations are fine to a certain point, but it will eventually reach a level where you're either going to fail rotations, not have the ability to complete a residency, or go bankrupt from turning down patients.

I'm mainly curious too because I know for a fact we have people from very conservative backgrounds and faiths in my class and I haven't seen a single person skip out on anatomy, OTM, the awkward physical exams, etc.

my understanding is no one has issues touching other people, their issue is with being touched. I believe everyone is cleared to do what they must for their occupation. I guess its nice that as far as their personal space, we try to accommodate them.

 

[JaggerPlate]

my understanding is no one has issues touching other people, their issue is with being touched. I believe everyone is cleared to do what they must for their occupation. I guess its nice that as far as their personal space, we try to accommodate them.

Gotcha. I think I assumed that touching and being touched fell under the same umbrella, but this makes more sense. Also, I agree that it's good schools are willing to make these accommodations now as long as they don't hinder/will become moot during clinical experiences later on (which it sounds like they will not).

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[FIREitUP]

Don't quote me on this (hahaha or do ) but I believe its jehova witness med students who cant touch dead bodies. Or mormons. Its something like that (yes i know jehova's witnesses and TCoLDS are very different)

hmm i wonder what will happen when they do chest compressions on cardiac arrest patients. technically, they're dead.

 

[SavoirFaire]

I sense some virginity in this thread.

I'm looking forward to OMM lab personally. OMM is what really drew me in to DO programs. I'm a really touchy person.

 

[tbone1234]

my understanding is no one has issues touching other people, their issue is with being touched.

This is incorrect. I know a lot of muslim people (women) who will not even give someone a hug because they feel it is a violation of their "modesty". Yet they want to go into medicine... it's so contradictory it makes me sick. It won't affect me at all I know... but it's just annoying how parents can force (yes force) religion onto their kids at a young age, then also indirectly force them to pursue medicine. It's the culture man.

Sorry for the vent, lol.

 

[DocEspana]

This is incorrect. I know a lot of muslim people (women) who will not even give someone a hug because they feel it is a violation of their "modesty". Yet they want to go into medicine... it's so contradictory it makes me sick. It won't affect me at all I know... but it's just annoying how parents can force (yes force) religion onto their kids at a young age, then also indirectly force them to pursue medicine. It's the culture man.

Sorry for the vent, lol.

I cant necessarily speak for the people you know, but I go to school with quite a few muslims and orthodox jews who both seem to be very loyal followers of the religion. In all their cases they say they are allowed to touch anyone if its job/education related. Entertainment/personal life is a whole different thing and they really treat it like a light switch. The second education time is over they flip over to a different set of sensibilities. Can't say this applies to the people you know, but it is true for the people I know. Perhaps it is the personal life vs work life thing. Hugs tend to be personal life. But thats just my guess.

 

[tbone1234]

I cant necessarily speak for the people you know, but I go to school with quite a few muslims and orthodox jews who both seem to be very loyal followers of the religion. In all their cases they say they are allowed to touch anyone if its job/education related. Entertainment/personal life is a whole different thing and they really treat it like a light switch. The second education time is over they flip over to a different set of sensibilities. Can't say this applies to the people you know, but it is true for the people I know. Perhaps it is the personal life vs work life thing. Hugs tend to be personal life. But thats just my guess.

I don't know many people the way I described, but there are definitely quite a few. I think you hit it on the head, it's a personal life vs work life issue. It just seems to me that they are doing their patients a disservice by making their patients strictly part of their work life. The doctor I shadowed got to know the patients' personal life as well, hugged his older patients, etc. I'm not saying that touching patients is the only way to make someone feel comfortable (awkward, lol)...the occasional hug and hand on shoulder seems to help build a comfortable relationship between doctor and patient. just my opinion.

 

[OzelloPiRat]

Latter Day Saint here (Mormon). Most have no issues with dissection. No issues with blood transfusions either. We have a respect for the dead, but nothing barring us religiously from cutting on a cadaver.
We do have modesty issues tho. We believe in being covered. I asked a couple schools and they had no problem with wearing a sports bra under a long cami. If the cami impedes my partners learning, it will come off. I do not want another student to not get the education they deserve. There is a very long thread discussing this issue. I think it says something about sports bras and men keep out. Try the search for it.

 

[Mbeas]

We do have modesty issues tho. We believe in being covered. I asked a couple schools and they had no problem with wearing a sports bra under a long cami. If the cami impedes my partners learning, it will come off. I do not want another student to not get the education they deserve. There is a very long thread discussing this issue. I think it says something about sports bras and men keep out. Try the search for it.

Guy reporting in....what the hell is a cami?

 

[DrWily]

Guy reporting in....what the hell is a cami?

Guy answering: it's like an undershirt to hide cleavage or something.

I think.

LOL.

 

[Mbeas]

Guy answering: it's like an undershirt to hide cleavage or something.

I think.

LOL.

Just googled it and found this: http://camisecret.com/Default.asp?bhcp=1



Also, google images has good results

 

[OzelloPiRat]

Lol! Thanks for the laugh! It's like a tighter fitting tank top with thin straps. Many wear it by itself. I wear them under shirts that are too low in the front.

 

[ammonihah99]

Don't quote me on this (hahaha or do ) but I believe its jehova witness med students who cant touch dead bodies. Or mormons. Its something like that (yes i know jehova's witnesses and TCoLDS are very different)

Sorry to resurrect this discussion, but I wanted to clarify that Mormons are not restricted by their religion to touch dead bodies. I am LDS and thoroughly appreciate working with cadavers. I can't, however, speak for Jehovah's Witnesses.

By the way, what is TCoLDS? Something Latter-day Saints, I'm sure . . .


Edit: Whoops didn't see the second page of this discussion, oh well.

 

[AvidAvatar]

Sorry to resurrect this discussion, but I wanted to clarify that Mormons are not restricted by their religion to touch dead bodies. I am LDS and thoroughly appreciate working with cadavers. I can't, however, speak for Jehovah's Witnesses.

By the way, what is TCoLDS? Something Latter-day Saints, I'm sure . . .


Edit: Whoops didn't see the second page of this discussion, oh well.

General question - When you say 'touch dead bodies' does that these religions can't touch them...at all...like not even through gloves?

 

[ammonihah99]

To clarify, I stated we (Mormons) are NOT restricted in touching dead bodies. I have no experience with other religions or knowledge of their restrictive practices, therefore I won't comment.