School decision help, shot straight like always.

[Taven7755]

Hello all,

I have a decision to make, and I need to make it quickly. All input would be greatly appreciated. Here is the crux:

After not getting in last year, finishing my degree, and almost losing my mind between work and retaking the OAT, I’ve been accepted to Nova and to Pacific. I was very recently offered an interview at NECO…and Midwestern; and this is where the problem lies.

I am very conscious of the debts that I will be accruing in school. I plan on bartending through school to help cover my personal expenses, as I feel that taking out loans to pay for rent and groceries is not something I feel like paying interest on for the next 30 years… money is a big factor to me. (With all due respect, please save me the whole “you won’t have time to work in op school” thing; I realize it will be limited hours, but I know people doing it.)

I am a current resident of FL, so obviously Nova will run me the $19000 for in-state, not to mention bartending in south FL will be a nice gig. Pacific and NECO are both expensive and out of state, so I am leaning away from those two. Here is the dilemma: I have a brother that lives in Glendale, AZ…and having little or no rent to pay over four years will be a big help. What is the status of Midwestern? Will the reputation lost by going there be worth the money saved? Plus, what the heck is their tuition!?!?!? Their site is a mess, and google can’t even find me a number. (kinda gives me a bad feeling) I heard from a guy I met at an interview that their out of state is 13000? Is that true? Seems unlikely to me…

I greatly appreciate any advice. I just want the best combination of a good school that won’t put a huge loan on my back for the next few decades! Thank you.

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[hurricaneuro]

I'd go for NOVA. Compared to midwestern...

-Better known, accredited
-Bartending in S. Florida will be 1000 X easier than in....Arizona.
-You still have the instate tuition you can pay
-The debt will be worth it when your a doctor

...and...Go Hurricanes! I'm partial!

 

[gochi]

I'd go for NOVA. Compared to midwestern...

-Better known, accredited
-Bartending in S. Florida will be 1000 X easier than in....Arizona.
-You still have the instate tuition you can pay
-The debt will be worth it when your a doctor

...and...Go Hurricanes! I'm partial!

A few things id like to comment on here

A "better" school does not guarantee a better job. And compared to which schools, is nova better than? And in what categories?

The whole bartending gig is going to be negligible, so that should not be a factor.


This is the site you should look at: http://www.midwestern.edu/AZCOPT/

If I interpreted the acronyms correctly, it seems as if tuition is a whopping 43k.

 

[DryEye]

Midwesterns tuition is temporarily set at 27,000/year (i think that is out of state)

 

[EyeWitness]

I think you should definitely go to NOVA!

 

[blackht]

Go to NOVA; cheaper is better. OD is an OD. Midwestern is too expensive and too new. I would like to see students NOT support these new schools- thay are redundant and will only flood the market with new OD's.

 

[EyeWitness]

Go to NOVA; cheaper is better. OD is an OD. Midwestern is too expensive and too new. I would like to see students NOT support these new schools- thay are redundant and will only flood the market with new OD's.

I agree. I am going to personally call these three schools and close them down for everyone's sake.

 

[thanotoriousfob]

Go to NOVA; cheaper is better. OD is an OD. Midwestern is too expensive and too new. I would like to see students NOT support these new schools- thay are redundant and will only flood the market with new OD's.

Good luck with that.

Students are not going to try and turn down an opportunity.

 

[IndianaOD]

Midwesterns tuition is temporarily set at 27,000/year (i think that is out of state)

Its a soul sucking private school. I doubt there is any in/out of state difference.

 

[DryEye]

Actually you are right. I just found this out today

 

[optsuker]

About the only reason to attend one of the new start-up schools would be if you are rejected everwhere else. Their first classes will be made up primarily of the bottom-of-the-barrel applicants that were rejected by all other programs. As with all new programs, there will be unforseen complications and these schools will do what's in their best interest at the expense of its students.

Notice the trends of recent threads include mention of the new schools & PR more often. Members of the early classes of these programs will be viewed in the optometric community as someone who shouldn't have gotten in anywhere.

 

[Taven7755]

Firstly, I appreciate the feedback that everyone has given me on this... Getting all viewpoints helps me very much.

Honestly, I have been a little conflicted about the new schools and the perception that I would have if I were in the first class. I guess that I assumed that the reputation of the class would be dependent on the quality of the students that go there, and that a class with great stats would counterbalance the obvious prestige gap.

My point is that I figured that the locations of both Western and Midwestern would attract an extremely strong entering class. Obviously, there is no school anywhere in the west, outside of California, and I guess that I assume that this will bring in a strong class. I felt the same with Western, in that the other two schools in CA (which has 40 million people,1/6 of the pop) take relatively small classes.Please let me know your feelings on this. Is there some consensus that these classes will be inferior? Seems like you'd be really picky if you're just opening up, right?

The problem is that Midwestern is just now wanting me to INTERVIEW, in mid-January, and I have the signed acceptances from three other schools sitting in my study!!! How do they expect me to do this with the time limit we all get? What the hell took them so long?!?!

I am pulling toward Nova...I just want to explore the other cheap option before I commit. Is the 27000 I read on here the tuition? That can't be right...I can go to big-tradition NECO for less than that. I've heard 43000 and 13000 too. This is insane. Thanks again for everyone's input.

 

[hurricaneuro]

To give you some peace of mind and spare you the stress, unless you REALLY want to go to Midwestern...just focus on the three you have. You've worked for four years, taken the OAT, interviewed atleast three times...sit back and relax before it all starts again!

I'm saying this cause I agree with the above posters, it seems Midwestern has a lot of unknowns, so why not just choose a school you atleast have lots of data/info on.

 

[IndianaOD]

Firstly, I appreciate the feedback that everyone has given me on this... Getting all viewpoints helps me very much.

Honestly, I have been a little conflicted about the new schools and the perception that I would have if I were in the first class. I guess that I assumed that the reputation of the class would be dependent on the quality of the students that go there, and that a class with great stats would counterbalance the obvious prestige gap.

My point is that I figured that the locations of both Western and Midwestern would attract an extremely strong entering class. Obviously, there is no school anywhere in the west, outside of California, and I guess that I assume that this will bring in a strong class. I felt the same with Western, in that the other two schools in CA (which has 40 million people,1/6 of the pop) take relatively small classes.Please let me know your feelings on this. Is there some consensus that these classes will be inferior? Seems like you'd be really picky if you're just opening up, right?

The problem is that Midwestern is just now wanting me to INTERVIEW, in mid-January, and I have the signed acceptances from three other schools sitting in my study!!! How do they expect me to do this with the time limit we all get? What the hell took them so long?!?!

I am pulling toward Nova...I just want to explore the other cheap option before I commit. Is the 27000 I read on here the tuition? That can't be right...I can go to big-tradition NECO for less than that. I've heard 43000 and 13000 too. This is insane. Thanks again for everyone's input.

Pacific is the the west as well

 

[cunikki]

its hard to tell what type of students those two schools may or may not attract- but i really believe that people going to western are going to be primarily people who would go to scco but did not get accepted- honestly every year scco has in the majority (asian) southern californian students making up most of the class- a lot of these people refuse to leave the area- and some of the students that make it into the program there arent really qualified to be doctors- so i think what will end up happening is those who are less qualified and dont get into scco will end up at western
if i were you i would pick a school that is already accredited- it just does not make sense to risk going to a school that will use you as a guinea pig. honestly even after many years it seems like there is still a lot of things the schools need to try to figure out- i cant even imagine how bad the quality of education will be at an entirely new school that has no experience

 

[EyeWitness]

Taven, do you not see from all these people's posts that no-one is encouraging you to attend Western. I know since your thinking about that school, you're trying to rationalize why it's a good choice, but if no current optometrists or any pre-opts think it's a good idea, maybe you should just take the hint and go to an established school.

 

[IndianaOD]

Avoid the new schools at all costs! There will just be too much chaos at first to get a good education. I can't imagine they have good externship sites either (which is a HUGE factor)

It will be interesting to see how they pull enough patients for the students.

 

[EyeWitness]

It will be interesting to see how they pull enough patients for the students.

They'll just do what chiropractor schools do, force the student to bring in their own "patients".

 

[zyg0te]

Taven, do you not see from all these people's posts that no-one is encouraging you to attend Western. I know since your thinking about that school, you're trying to rationalize why it's a good choice, but if no current optometrists or any pre-opts think it's a good idea, maybe you should just take the hint and go to an established school.

The few people that post on SDN do not represent all optometrists or students. In general the posting on SDN are a lot more cynical and although they should be strongly considered, do not take anything said here at face value.

I get the sense that a lot of people bashing the school is not because they believe it will provide a poor education. Which in all honesty, there is little substance behind that argument. A lot of people here are threatened by the school. More optometrist = less demand = lower pay. In discouraging people from going to the new schools, maybe they believe they can cause the program to cease operation.

There may be some real concerns with midwestern university specifically, but I have not looked into the school any more than just browsing their website for 10 minutes. Also, I have yet to see a real issue mentioned in this thread about their program.

 

[zyg0te]

I am having some real difficulty following your post, so let me attempt to break it down.

[/quote]

its hard to tell what type of students those two schools may or may not attract- but i really believe that people going to western are going to be primarily people who would go to scco but did not get accepted-

I actually agree here. I believe that a good deal of students admitted to their program wouldn't have been admitted anywhere else.

honestly every year scco has in the majority (asian) southern californian students making up most of the class- a lot of these people refuse to leave the area- and some of the students that make it into the program there arent really qualified to be doctors- so i think what will end up happening is those who are less qualified and dont get into scco will end up at western

So you're saying SCCO has ****ty students, and WU will have sub****ty students?

if i were you i would pick a school that is already accredited- it just does not make sense to risk going to a school that will use you as a guinea pig. honestly even after many years it seems like there is still a lot of things the schools need to try to figure out- i cant even imagine how bad the quality of education will be at an entirely new school that has no experience

Again I can't speak for other schools since I havn't looked into them much. But the president of WU did not just wake up one day and say "I need a new bmw, lets open a college of optometry." They have so much invested in their school and their school's programs, I am sure they have thoroughly researched what it takes to create a successful optometry program.

Of course being the first year, there are going to be kinks in the program that will need to be worked out; but I have no doubt that any student admitted that really wants to be there will gain a great education and become a proficient OD.

 

[cunikki]

hahah im not exactly saying that scco has bad students and western will have worse- but honestly i believe scco has a hard time finding 98 students each year that can complete its program ... about 8-10 students per year go back a year and have to pay an extra years tuition and of those about half will never graduate from the school... logically if scco cannot find 98 quality students each year and western is gonna start out with mostly scco rejects how will they finish the program/pass boards?

i know the president of these schools did not wake up one day and start a program- but these new schools are on the campus of existing health professional schools- for the first year i think they will be trying to figure out how to work things and that i personally would much rather go to an already accredited school than be the first class at a school ... any school... just because they dont know yet how to do things and will be trying them out on you....

not to mention the fact that they have no established patient base- you will probably be trying to recruit your own patients or seeing healthy pre-professional students from other parts of the school... which isnt exactly that helpful,
they have no externship sites... and i know that scco has been working super hard to make sure not a single site of theirs in the southwest area gets 'lost' to a new school....

i guess the original poster should do what they want but whatever they are saving by living with a relative is not going to be worth anything to them if their school ends up not accredited, or they cant pass boards or anything else goes wrong... i know opt school tuition is expensive but it is much more expensive to have problems then go through the four years successfully once

 

[KHE]

I get the sense that a lot of people bashing the school is not because they believe it will provide a poor education. Which in all honesty, there is little substance behind that argument. A lot of people here are threatened by the school. More optometrist = less demand = lower pay. In discouraging people from going to the new schools, maybe they believe they can cause the program to cease operation..

I for one am actually looking forward to the new schools flooding the market with grads. That way, I'll be able to hire people to work nights and weekends for $200 a day instead of $300 a day. Good deal!

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I for one am actually looking forward to the new schools flooding the market with grads. That way, I'll be able to hire people to work nights and weekends for $200 a day instead of $300 a day. Good deal!

Assuming you aren't being a smartass, I hope you provide an overnight cot and a bowl of noodles in one of your exam lanes to your new grad associates considering they'd be hard pressed to find decent housing in Connecticut to raise a family and pay back their loans at your offer of $200/day. Way to go, optometry "mentor".

 

[KHE]

Assuming you aren't being a smartass, I hope you provide an overnight cot and a bowl of noodles in one of your exam lanes to your new grad associates considering they'd be hard pressed to find decent housing in Connecticut to raise a family and pay back their loans at your offer of $200/day. Way to go, optometry "mentor".

Well, the cot I can provide but there is a charge for the bowl of noodles.

You're right, new grads ARE going to be hard pressed to find housing and pay down their loans but that is the road we are heading down if the market continues to get saturated with schools and graduates. I already have doctors contacting me a few times a month wanting to know if we need any extra help. Throw in three extra graduating classes a year and that will be even better.

 

[achirum]

If this is truly where optometry is going, then what is going to happen to Pharmacy? Do you think it will be the same sort of thing?

 

[optsuker]

If this is truly where optometry is going, then what is going to happen to Pharmacy? Do you think it will be the same sort of thing?

Pharmacy has already surrendered control of its profession to a bunch of MBA's @ the big box retailers.

There are very few entrepeneurs left and they are close to being all employees of someone. The current supply has led to pretty good wages with pretty poor working conditions. New pharm schools are graduating a larger working pool and that combined with insurance companies forcing centralized distribution of meds will drive wages down, still with poor working conditions. If someone figures a way to automate med dispensing, salaries will drop through the floor.

Optometrist will fare better in that they can prescribe what they sell and there are premium options (CL's & high end eyewear) that will always be in demand.