School list for older nontrad? T10 in reach? soft x-factors, cumulative UG c3.8/s3.91, Grad c3.84/s4.0.

[Drythagoras]

Aiming for T10, applying 2026 cycle, looking to figure out a school list no idea where to start.
Q1: Should/Do I need to apply DO? I hear research infrastructure is lacking at DO, and sometimes they have to find their own rotations, but idk if this is true?
Q2: Am I T10 competitive?
Q3: How bad is no nonclinical volunteering? I realistically dont have the time right now.

GPA: UG 3.80 BCPM 3.91 ORM no SES
Grad (ms+phd) 3.84 BCPM 4.0
Both engineering
MCAT in 2026 January/April

Clinical: 400h-600h
- 300h clinical research 1-on-1 w/ patients @ T10
- 80h-180h hospice
- 10yo experiences: 100h hospital volunteer, 50h pcp clinic volunteer
Shadowing: 100h
- 50h current, 50h old (pcp, neuro, icu)
Research: 12-15000 h (ug+ms+phd)
- NIH fellowship, pubs/conferences/abstracts: 10-15
Leadership: 100h
- mentoring thesis, ug research mentor, started interest club
Work experience: 4-6000h
- Big tech internships and small health startups
Non-clinical: Nothing
Misc: Yearly UG competition winner $20k in extra scholarships, average hobbies

LORS: 3 PIs, 2MDs, all have known me for 5+ years

x-factors: PhD (?), intellectual property, attention grabbing personal narrative

School List:

UCSF
UCSD
UC Davis+Riverside+Irvine
USC
Kaiser (???)
UofNM COM
Mayo AZ+Rochester
UA Tuscon
UA Phx
Creighton AZ
U of Utah
U of Colorado
UNC Chapel Hill
Emory
Case
OSU
WashU
U of Mich
U of Wisconsin

No Texas ties but will apply, worth?:
Baylor
UTSW
UT Austin
Texas A&M

App fee donations:
Stanford
Harvard
Colombia
NYU
Penn
Yale
JHU

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[Mr.Smile12]

Welcome to the forums.

What is your state of residence? Why do you see yourself being a doctor, given you journey with your Ph.D.? Are you really willing to be at the bottom of the totem pole?

That non-clinical number of zero concerns me a little, but you are nontraditional... you still need to show some inclination to serve the community.

 

[Drythagoras]

Welcome to the forums.

What is your state of residence? Why do you see yourself being a doctor, given you journey with your Ph.D.? Are you really willing to be at the bottom of the totem pole?

That non-clinical number of zero concerns me a little, but you are nontraditional... you still need to show some inclination to serve the community.

I'm an AZ resident. The journey was roundabout, I left premed in my UG because of a feeling of immaturity and emotional overwhelm from the hospital setting. Nearly started a big tech career before the opportunity for med+tech research presented itself (ms+phd). Had a dramatic near death experience during PhD, reignited the desire to do medicine, realized I was a bit older and wiser.

From the intellectual side, I made clinical tools during my research, but I feel that clinicians who see large volumes of patients will know how to direct development of clinical tools better.

The personal and intellectual motivations both came to a head in 2024, ended up securing a clinical job and clinical volunteering this year to see if it was right for me, so far so good.

Questions:
1. Is 150h nonclincal volunteering really a must? Is there no way that the hospice volunteering counts towards this? I'll have ~100h by app cycle and ~200h projected.
2. Do I need to apply DO?
3. Can I be competitive at T10 with the app as it currently stands, assuming good MCAT?
4. Other school suggestions?

 

[Goro]

It's impossible to advise you without an MCAT score. So come back when you have an actual score, and then we can advise you.

Aiming for T10, applying 2026 cycle, looking to figure out a school list no idea where to start.
Q1: Should/Do I need to apply DO? I hear research infrastructure is lacking at DO, and sometimes they have to find their own rotations, but idk if this is true?
Q2: Am I T10 competitive?
Q3: How bad is no nonclinical volunteering? I realistically dont have the time right now.

GPA: UG 3.80 BCPM 3.91 ORM no SES
Grad (ms+phd) 3.84 BCPM 4.0
Both engineering
MCAT in 2026 January/April

Clinical: 400h-600h
- 300h clinical research 1-on-1 w/ patients @ T10
- 80h-180h hospice
- 10yo experiences: 100h hospital volunteer, 50h pcp clinic volunteer
Shadowing: 100h
- 50h current, 50h old (pcp, neuro, icu)
Research: 12-15000 h (ug+ms+phd)
- NIH fellowship, pubs/conferences/abstracts: 10-15
Leadership: 100h
- mentoring thesis, ug research mentor, started interest club
Work experience: 4-6000h
- Big tech internships and small health startups
Non-clinical: Nothing
Misc: Yearly UG competition winner $20k in extra scholarships, average hobbies

LORS: 3 PIs, 2MDs, all have known me for 5+ years

x-factors: PhD (?), intellectual property, attention grabbing personal narrative

School List:

UCSF
UCSD
UC Davis+Riverside+Irvine
USC
Kaiser (???)
UofNM COM
Mayo AZ+Rochester
UA Tuscon
UA Phx
Creighton AZ
U of Utah
U of Colorado
UNC Chapel Hill
Emory
Case
OSU
WashU
U of Mich
U of Wisconsin

No Texas ties but will apply, worth?:
Baylor
UTSW
UT Austin
Texas A&M

App fee donations:
Stanford
Harvard
Colombia
NYU
Penn
Yale
JHU

 

[polymerization]

I'm a student just like you, but your school list doesn't make sense to me.

Absent non-clinical volunteering, why are you applying to social justice-focused schools like UCSF, Emory, Case, Kaiser, UNM, UMich, MCW?

Similarly, I don't understand the CA school choice more broadly. UCD, UCI, UCR, and (to a lesser extent) UCSD take single-digit numbers of OOS students each cycle. If by WashU you mean the University of Washington, they are pretty much closed to folks outside of the WWAMI region. TX schools use TMDSAS and, as far as I know, also have extreme OOS bias.

Obviously you're posturing toward Ivies, and I think having a PhD will obviously add to your candidacy. The issue is that you've made yourself most attractive, unsurprisingly, to academia and industry—because that is where your career was headed.

Without some sustained clinical experiences and nonclinical volunteering, I suspect it will be difficult for you, as an applicant, to make a satisfying argument in your essays that you understand the nature of working as a healthcare provider and drink from the holy vessel of service orientation Koolaid.

Even more so, your previous education will make it particularly difficult for you to get the entry-level clinical roles you might need to advance. I think this is more an ageism thing more so than anything else.

If I'm being honest, yes, the MCAT will probably be important to score well on, but I think it is even more important to pad your application in ways important for holistic review. After getting bachelor's, master's, and doctorate degrees in engineering, it's going to be an uphill battle to convince admissions committees that no, you've always wanted to be a doctor, that's why you spent 10+ years studying engineering and are seemingly thriving in that environment.

This process is so opaque and stochastic that I think it would be a big mistake to take the risk of applying without the things you know every applicant is supposed to have. I have a feeling it is an even bigger mistake in the applicant pool you want to swim in. Good luck!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I'm an AZ resident. The journey was roundabout, I left premed in my UG because of a feeling of immaturity and emotional overwhelm from the hospital setting. Nearly started a big tech career before the opportunity for med+tech research presented itself (ms+phd). Had a dramatic near death experience during PhD, reignited the desire to do medicine, realized I was a bit older and wiser.

From the intellectual side, I made clinical tools during my research, but I feel that clinicians who see large volumes of patients will know how to direct development of clinical tools better.

Your engineering background will help you. Read

How to Engineer a Health Professional Career | SDN

Access free resources, expert advice, and tools to advance your medical career.

www.studentdoctor.net

Q&A with Carle Illinois College of Medicine: Developing Innovation and Entrepreneurship as Health Professionals | SDN

Access free resources, expert advice, and tools to advance your medical career.

www.studentdoctor.net

I'll predict you'll present a very strong MCAT (not knowing the social sciences prep you will have, but overall you should do very well). Let us know if my prediction becomes true.

The personal and intellectual motivations both came to a head in 2024, ended up securing a clinical job and clinical volunteering this year to see if it was right for me, so far so good.

Questions:
1. Is 150h nonclincal volunteering really a must? Is there no way that the hospice volunteering counts towards this? I'll have ~100h by app cycle and ~200h projected.
2. Do I need to apply DO?
3. Can I be competitive at T10 with the app as it currently stands, assuming good MCAT?
4. Other school suggestions?

To be fair, the 150 hours of service orientation activities is very important. Hospice volunteering... I guess it depends what you are doing, but you are dealing with challenging end-of-life patients needing comfort. That is important, but plenty of people in our communities have serious social needs that you should be aware of at the front line. Food distribution, shelter volunteer, job/tax preparation, legal support, transportation services, or housing rehabilitation. Sure, if you have 100 hours, you can apply with what you have, but no guarantees with having 100 hours (it depends on the schools on your list).

I'm sure that if you are coming from a different career path, it's possible. Even some notable PhD's (to me) finished medical school within the last year or so (Shiv Gagliani of Osmosis, Samuel Dyer of MSL Society).