School list help 3.47/515, WI Resident, ORM

[Nydarb]

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Hey guys! I’m applying this cycle and wanted some help generating a school list. I am very interested in MD/MPH programs. I’ll add more detail below.

Stats:
cGPA: 3.47 with positive trend and almost exclusively upper level science classes for last year and a half of undergrad (and I got ~3.8 average)
sGPA: 3.52
MCAT: 515

Letters:
2 letters from co-PIs of HHMI lab I’ve been teching at for a couple years
1 letter from global health/leadership mentor
1 letter from EMT supervisor

ECs:
940 hours as an EMT (casino, unique environment)
~5000 research hours, project ownership, 3 posters, no pubs, but a first-author in prep about biochemistry/parasitology
~350 hours leading a nutrition education project in Uganda
~200 hours elected philanthropy chair for Fraternity, including a national chapter award for philanthropy and service during my term
~400 hours as a peer mentor for intro biology. Worked with 30+ students in group settings

Narrative:
Because it’s important for deciding what schools would be a good fit for me, I am interested in MD/MPH programs (but also pure MD with some kind of concentration in either global health or health policy). My narrative is based on leveraging research to serve developing communities, hinging on those first three ECs I mentioned.

Let me know if there are schools you think would be a good fit! I know my GPA is not competitive for MD programs so I’ve got a bit of an uphill battle, but would love to hear opinions on where I should apply.

 

[chilly_md]

Moved to WAMC.

Do you have any hands-on volunteering hours in the US? What is your state of residence?

 

[Nydarb]

Moved to WAMC.

Do you have any hands-on volunteering hours in the US? What is your state of residence?

Yeah, but not a ton. I have 164 hours of clinical volunteering that I did at a hospital. I also did about 60 hours of community service with various nonprofits as part of my fraternity. The philanthropy chair stuff and the mentoring stuff I think I would count as volunteering? But no like consistent volunteering with a soup kitchen or shelter or something.

I am a WI resident.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Your activities don't make your odds easier. I would encourage you to add DO schools.

As it stands, your extracurriculars are unusual, but they lack service orientation in the United States. EMT in a casino is certainly a unique environment, but it's not exposing you to the community like a regular community EMT. (Police serving as event security is different than being on a beat.) Philanthropy chair is important, but it's not service orientation that we look for. With fewer than 150 hours, your application is in jeopardy of being screened out at most schools.

 

[Nydarb]

Your activities don't make your odds easier. I would encourage you to add DO schools.

As it stands, your extracurriculars are unusual, but they lack service orientation in the United States. EMT in a casino is certainly a unique environment, but it's not exposing you to the community like a regular community EMT. (Police serving as event security is different than being on a beat.) Philanthropy chair is important, but it's not service orientation that we look for. With fewer than 150 hours, your application is in jeopardy of being screened out at most schools.

Thanks for your reply. Why would activities not make odds easier, isn't that the entire point of the holistic review that AMCAS has been increasingly leaning into in the past several years?

Referring to your point about not being exposed to communities is something I would disagree with and I think that is something I should have clarified better so that we are on the same page. I will use this as an opportunity to be clear about my experiences in my primary application so that it doesn't get dismissed as something akin to "event security." I worked at a tribal casino in a small community. These establishments routinely serve as de facto homeless shelters in communities too small to have one, tribal gathering places, and more. My place of work was no exception. I was most certainly exposed to the community and was the primary responder for hundreds of calls ranging from lacerations in a kitchen to opioid overdoses to mental health crises to domestic violence injuries.

Your point about my few direct service hours is well taken and I agree that is a weak point of my application. However, why would my philanthropy chair position that involved organizing dozens of people at several events to give back to the community not be a service orientation that would be interesting to adcoms? I would argue that by organizing events with local food banks and whatnot and organizing multitudes of volunteers I amplified my impact beyond what I could do on my own (and note I am also hands-on and helping at the events). Spending my time organizing events and building partnerships with local nonprofits certainly reduced the amount of hours I was able to personally volunteer, so I see your point there.

Also do you have a source for people being screened at sub-150 hours of community service? Or do you know of any schools that I should be avoiding that likely do this? Do you have any DO school recommendations?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thanks for your reply. Why would activities not make odds easier, isn't that the entire point of the holistic review that AMCAS has been increasingly leaning into in the past several years?

The term is mission-aligned recruitment and selection (my acronym of MARS, but it covers what they are doing). That means they look for applicants who fit THEIR expectations to fulfill the mission of their programs.

Referring to your point about not being exposed to communities is something I would disagree with and I think that is something I should have clarified better so that we are on the same page. I will use this as an opportunity to be clear about my experiences in my primary application so that it doesn't get dismissed as something akin to "event security." I worked at a tribal casino in a small community. These establishments routinely serve as de facto homeless shelters in communities too small to have one, tribal gathering places, and more. My place of work was no exception. I was most certainly exposed to the community and was the primary responder for hundreds of calls ranging from lacerations in a kitchen to opioid overdoses to mental health crises to domestic violence injuries.

Is it your purpose to be in community with the native American population at the casino? How do doctors fit into serving the people there? I'm pointing out you can disagree with me all you want; I have the voices of dozens of faculty asking me these questions that guide their thinking. It's up to you to address their concerns. Describe your activities more accurately than just telling me you were an EMT at a casino (you see how details matter).

Your point about my few direct service hours is well taken and I agree that is a weak point of my application. However, why would my philanthropy chair position that involved organizing dozens of people at several events to give back to the community not be a service orientation that would be interesting to adcoms? I would argue that by organizing events with local food banks and whatnot and organizing multitudes of volunteers I amplified my impact beyond what I could do on my own (and note I am also hands-on and helping at the events). Spending my time organizing events and building partnerships with local nonprofits certainly reduced the amount of hours I was able to personally volunteer, so I see your point there.

Also do you have a source for people being screened at sub-150 hours of community service? Or do you know of any schools that I should be avoiding that likely do this? Do you have any DO school recommendations?

I am a fan of raising money for causes, but that's not what the adcoms I serve on reward on their rubrics. Again, you must provide the details to help us understand what you were doing. More importantly, you need to show us how these experiences bring value to understand how medicine should be delivered. I'm certainly supportive of making sure patients never go bankrupt for their life-saving care through philanthropy, but this is not a competency we teach or reward on the boards.

My source is my experience, rubrics I used to screen applicants, and internal research, buttressed by expert confirmation.

 

[Nydarb]

That means they look for applicants who fit THEIR expectations to fulfill the mission of their programs.

I understand. Do you have any recommendations for program that have a mission related to working with underserved populations? Between work with less fortunate populations at the casino and in global health, I’ve decided that’s what I’d like to do and I also think it’s where my narrative will carry more weight.

Is it your purpose to be in community with the native American population at the casino? How do doctors fit into serving the people there?

This is not my purpose no, I was just trying to point out it was a community hub and actually had a higher call volume than other opportunities available for EMTs that involved a lot of IFTs. Also worth emphasizing it was a concentrated group of people from the entire region nearby, not just tribal members. I was just trying to explain why I was disagreeing with your claim that I wasn’t exposed to as much “community” as other EMT roles.

Describe your activities more accurately than just telling me you were an EMT at a casino (you see how details matter).

More importantly, you need to show us how these experiences bring value to understand how medicine should be delivered.

It sounds like I just really didn’t do myself justice with how I described my activities in my original prompt. I just wanted to clarify with you, are you suggesting my activities just don’t fit with any program or are you just saying it’s about how I describe them and what I learned from them in regards to the bigger picture of medicine?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I understand. Do you have any recommendations for program that have a mission related to working with underserved populations? Between work with less fortunate populations at the casino and in global health, I’ve decided that’s what I’d like to do and I also think it’s where my narrative will carry more weight.

The thing is, all medical schools claim they have a social contract to serve all populations, including underserved communities. Some programs have a special focus on subgroups. Check the UC PRIME programs. If you want to work with native American populations, what do you know about IHS?

One school I would have you look into is AT Still (DO/MPH) if you are interested in working with native American populations (Project Pueblo, others). Check which medical schools work with tribal clinics (https://www.hrsa.gov/about/organiza...al-affairs/tribal-urban-indian-health-centers).

This is not my purpose no, I was just trying to point out it was a community hub and actually had a higher call volume than other opportunities available for EMTs that involved a lot of IFTs. Also worth emphasizing it was a concentrated group of people from the entire region nearby, not just tribal members. I was just trying to explain why I was disagreeing with your claim that I wasn’t exposed to as much “community” as other EMT roles.

It sounds like I just really didn’t do myself justice with how I described my activities in my original prompt. I just wanted to clarify with you, are you suggesting my activities just don’t fit with any program or are you just saying it’s about how I describe them and what I learned from them in regards to the bigger picture of medicine?

Yes, you need to put in the details and not leave the assumptions to others. If you think these details are important, you should disclose them.