School vs schoo vs school?

[rayjay]

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So I'm sure this has been discussed but everything I've seen has been several years ago. I think with the amount that has changed since I first started on these forums, it's safe to ask this question again.

For those of you applying to multiple Australian schools, how are you going to decide if you get accepted to more than one? e.g. You get accepted to Sydney, Queensland, Melbourne and Flinders.

For me Sydney and Melbourne are just too expensive so I threw those away almost right away. How would I choose between Flinders and Queensland? What are you basing it on? Likelihood of coming back to your home country (US/Canada)? Class size? Likelihood of staying Australia post graduation?

As offers start to go out I find myself facing this decision, and having to justify it to those who are going to support me financially (parents). Why should they invest $46k for me to study at Flinders when they could pay $49k for me to study at Queensland which is internationally ranked in the top100? Why should I choose to live in Adelaide instead of Brisbane?

These are all questions that I'm facing (or will be facing hopefully)!

How did you guys decide? Those of you who already are working in Aus, are currently in the system or who have a hand in RUNNING the system, what are your thoughts? Any opinions are appreciated!
Thanks!!

 

[Canuck455]

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[rayjay]

I'm assuming based on your name that you're Canadian? Are you not planning on writing the Cdn exams as well?

 

[Canuck455]

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[rayjay]

Yeah but the cost of going to Melbourne (60k) is significantly more expensive than going to Flinders or Queensland (46 and 49k respectively)....that's the only reason I mentioned it. Melbourne is a great school, don't get me wrong.

 

[mindsg]

So I'm sure this has been discussed but everything I've seen has been several years ago. I think with the amount that has changed since I first started on these forums, it's safe to ask this question again.

For those of you applying to multiple Australian schools, how are you going to decide if you get accepted to more than one? e.g. You get accepted to Sydney, Queensland, Melbourne and Flinders.

For me Sydney and Melbourne are just too expensive so I threw those away almost right away. How would I choose between Flinders and Queensland? What are you basing it on? Likelihood of coming back to your home country (US/Canada)? Class size? Likelihood of staying Australia post graduation?

As offers start to go out I find myself facing this decision, and having to justify it to those who are going to support me financially (parents). Why should they invest $46k for me to study at Flinders when they could pay $49k for me to study at Queensland which is internationally ranked in the top100? Why should I choose to live in Adelaide instead of Brisbane?

These are all questions that I'm facing (or will be facing hopefully)!

How did you guys decide? Those of you who already are working in Aus, are currently in the system or who have a hand in RUNNING the system, what are your thoughts? Any opinions are appreciated!
Thanks!!

Bump!

 

[cosycatus]

FYI, queensland is not just that 4-5K pa more expensive than Flinders.
Flinders course fee is fixed for the 4 years. ie, 45Kpa at entry = 180K total for 4 years.
For queensland, they increase the fee every year, first year 49.2K, second year = 52K( for eg) and so on. The rate of increase is peg to inflation and my previous communication with the school is that can be from 5-10%, peg to inflation. So over 4 years, u can possibly pay up to 20-25K more or even more if they peg it at 10%, judging by the way the Australian dollar is going.

Once that is clear, Flinders is definitely a lot cheaper.

Ranking is also a moot point. Firstly, it's not the medical school that is ranked, but the entire school, so is the top 100 position indicative of it's medical school? Secondly, the criteria for this ranking is also questionable. I studied in an engineering school once ranked the top 10 in the world. I hardly feel that the way about it though, with it's estoric curriculum and bunch of stogy old professors who cannot teach. Research contribute a lot to ranking, but good research is hardly indicative of producing good graduates.

so really, unless u are talking about comparing Harvard Medical school, Cambridge Medical school etc with Flinders, please for godness sake, UQ is not much better, if any at all. I am studying in Flinders and there are many time i wish they can teach some of the stuff better but overall i think they do an okay job. I know nothing about UQ except from feedback from some past and current student; international students feels that UQ loves money, while local students finds the big cohort size daunting and lonely. Some of them only realized that the guy they pass by everything in the corridor to be a cohort mate only on the day of graduation.

That said, Adelaide is DEAD boring and weather is chilly. Queensland is definitely more liveable.

Oh, yes , as an added point pls see where international student ranks on being conferred internship for UQ vs South Australia. You can easily google for it. International students rank really really at the btm for Queensland.

 

[rayjay]

thanks cosycactus. I am not concerned about the rankings, that's something that I keep getting asked by my parents. They are of the old school mindset that "ranking" and "prestige" mean everything. I live in Canada and I think most can agree that the concept of "ranking" our med schools is moot as well. Canadian schools are all equally prestigious but obviously McGill and UofT hold more "international recognition".

Anyways I appreciate your insight. I'm still very keen on going to Flinders (provided I get accepted). The fixed tuition and residency situation are big pull factors but for me the bigger thing is class size. I went to an undergrad school where the class sizes were massive and yes I literally met people I had class with on convocation day that I had never talked to; I don't like that. I would much prefer to know the vast majority of people I'll be studying with for the next four years.

When you say Adelaide is boring, can you elaborate? I'm sure it doesn't have the huge attractions like a big city like Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane; but for example what do you do for fun (in the little free time you probably have).

Cheers!

 

[pitman]

Oh, yes , as an added point pls see where international student ranks on being conferred internship for UQ vs South Australia. You can easily google for it. International students rank really really at the btm for Queensland.

I thought they were roughly the same rank in the two states, after Qld followed SA's lead on bumping int'ls above AMC candidates ~2007 (controversial at the time). Or are you talking about placement odds rather than priority ranking?

 

[cosycatus]

thanks cosycactus. I am not concerned about the rankings, that's something that I keep getting asked by my parents. They are of the old school mindset that "ranking" and "prestige" mean everything. I live in Canada and I think most can agree that the concept of "ranking" our med schools is moot as well. Canadian schools are all equally prestigious but obviously McGill and UofT hold more "international recognition".

Anyways I appreciate your insight. I'm still very keen on going to Flinders (provided I get accepted). The fixed tuition and residency situation are big pull factors but for me the bigger thing is class size. I went to an undergrad school where the class sizes were massive and yes I literally met people I had class with on convocation day that I had never talked to; I don't like that. I would much prefer to know the vast majority of people I'll be studying with for the next four years.

When you say Adelaide is boring, can you elaborate? I'm sure it doesn't have the huge attractions like a big city like Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane; but for example what do you do for fun (in the little free time you probably have).

Cheers!

actually, u get by with quite a lot of free time. For eg, my exams are a week away and i'm here on SDN, so go figure. I assume the sci here isn't as rigorous as the states and canadian school. ( and definitely where i was from). You can't sit the USMLE with what they are teaching ( good thing is, they have an elective called pathological basis of disease that delve more into the sci. The Canadians all booked themselves into the elective the moment it's available)

Hmmm...I;m an at home person, i cook or play computer games, so it doesn't really bother me. But when i do want to go out sometimes, i really dunno where to go or what to do.
Where flinders is located is ~15Km from city, there's no food outlets nearby except for some really yucky chinese fast food or a rather expensive one. The nearest entertainment is this place call Marion shopping Center 3km away. It's huge, but then, it still one place and maybe good for ladies to shop ( which accordingly to a Canadian lady i know isn't much, but these opinion differ i think). I dun think there's a pub or a pool room there. I still dunno where the tennis courts are. I dun see a swimming pool.
Town isn't more interesting, not that i like to take the bus into town as i dun drive. Hmmm, i dunno how to describe it, but say compared to Melbourne where u can turn a street and discover an entire alley of Mediterranean food with people smoking water pipes and outdoor alfresco, you dun get that here in Adelaide. It's still somewhat bustling, but in a functional sorta way. Oh, there's a pub there, ok there's a restaurant there..ok, they sell sandwiches. yawns. There was a fringe festival going on sometime back; i might be at the wrong place, but it wasn't really exciting or anything....

 

[mindsg]

actually, u get by with quite a lot of free time. For eg, my exams are a week away and i'm here on SDN, so go figure. I assume the sci here isn't as rigorous as the states and canadian school. ( and definitely where i was from). You can't sit the USMLE with what they are teaching ( good thing is, they have an elective called pathological basis of disease that delve more into the sci. The Canadians all booked themselves into the elective the moment it's available)

Hmmm...I;m an at home person, i cook or play computer games, so it doesn't really bother me. But when i do want to go out sometimes, i really dunno where to go or what to do.
Where flinders is located is ~15Km from city, there's no food outlets nearby except for some really yucky chinese fast food or a rather expensive one. The nearest entertainment is this place call Marion shopping Center 3km away. It's huge, but then, it still one place and maybe good for ladies to shop ( which accordingly to a Canadian lady i know isn't much, but these opinion differ i think). I dun think there's a pub or a pool room there. I still dunno where the tennis courts are. I dun see a swimming pool.
Town isn't more interesting, not that i like to take the bus into town as i dun drive. Hmmm, i dunno how to describe it, but say compared to Melbourne where u can turn a street and discover an entire alley of Mediterranean food with people smoking water pipes and outdoor alfresco, you dun get that here in Adelaide. It's still somewhat bustling, but in a functional sorta way. Oh, there's a pub there, ok there's a restaurant there..ok, they sell sandwiches. yawns. There was a fringe festival going on sometime back; i might be at the wrong place, but it wasn't really exciting or anything....

Adelaide sounds pretty dead😴 from your description, no offense.

 

[cosycatus]

none taken. It is dead boring. It's pretty amazing how this city didn't end up a ghost town. Other than some vineyards, orchard and the typical farms etc, there isn't much industrial activity going on. No mines, oil , gas or along major shipping lines, no manufacturing complexes, flourishing tourism etc....It's somewhat an abnormality. It's so amazingly bland that maybe that's the attraction in itself.

 

[astrokitty]

this is the same dilemma i had few years back, so here's how and why i ended up at flinders.

1. cost - if being graduated from one school over another in australia doesn't make much difference in quality of education, i didn't want to spend more money on top of HUGE amount of tuition. (so Usyd was out, flights are cheap so i can always visit and enjoy the city) if i were to go back to canada, i would just be labelled as "foreign educated" med school anyway (although yes UQ/USYD is lot more well known... i didnt even know that Adelaide existed before i applied here. besides having to explain where flinders/adelaide is to your friends and family, i see no real disadvantage of being here in terms of quality of education amongst grad-entry med schools in aus).

2. internship prospects - well... as an international, we are not guranteed a spot and it's been like that forever. being in NSW & Victoria region as an international student would mean that i would have NO chance of internship spot. i came here thinking that i would 100% go back to states/canada since my family+friends are back home. but trust me, things may change and you may end up being very open-minded about staying here (many of my classmates + fellow canadians in our school are wanting to stay). so even if you do end up going back, it's always good to have an option. as an international, it is the safest to be in SA.

3. student #: +500 vs 130? that's a huge difference. i admit our school is bit unorganized too at times... but i hear all the time how people in UQ going nuts because it's just chaotic from having really slow and unresponsive admins.

4. city. yes... city does matter and it would be amazing if i could be in melbourne or sydney. but rents are sooo expensive there. actually everything is so much more expensive here already, so i was glad that i didn't choose to go to melb or bris. and as a canadian who appreciates no-snow winter, 10 min away beaches, and amazing wineries... it's not too bad. if you are a girl, you won't like shopping options....unless you were at syd/bris/melb.. but that is all. you won't have time to shop like your non-med days anyway.

5. choose the school you feel like going, because i'm happy here and i think that's really important. you will be in med being SUPER stressed out from studying at times without support from your family+friends back home. so go where you want to go to make yourself feel happy. it all depends on how much you make out of your education/experience in medicine regardless of where you are anyway.

hope this helped.

 

[rayjay]

Thanks for all the advice guys.
I opened my mail today and had a letter of offer from Flinders! I'm ecstatic...which basically means there's a very high chance I'll be attending next year!!!

Thanks cosycactus and astrokitty for your Flinders tips; I'll be speaking with you guys soon. What years are you both in? Both Canadians?

 

[rayjay]

as a follow-up, my family isn't as excited as I am. Seems they still want me to choose the "bigger name" school because they've heard the prospects of coming back to Canada are higher. I guess I have to do some homework and try and find some hard facts to prove otherwise?

 

[kermicrzy]

From what I gather, isnt it more important how you score on USMLEs (or Canadian equivalent) and your GPA? Yeah a school name can get you some notice but its what you make of that education that they look at.

So I dont know how far school name goes... Just my thought tho, no hard evidence to back me up 😛

 

[astrokitty]

uq vs other grad entry school doesn't affect you getting into residency back home. you are all grouped as FMGs - they couldn't care less specifically which school applicants went to (i heard some prefer graduates of certain foreign country over another - but i think that's all speculations too)

what matters
1. usmle/other exam scores
2. reference letters (based on your clinical hx or marks)
3. your achievements (whatever it may be, extra-curricular? publications?)
4. interviews

 

[Canuck455]

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[rayjay]

Sorry canuck, didn't see this until just now...ooops

PM'd you

 

[pbg4user]

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