non-trad I met was a 42-year-old. 
I want to fourth (I think?) what the others have said that all schools will look at competitive nontrads. That being said, I do agree with thebrownnote that certain schools just have a more non-trad friendly atmosphere to them, and I think that makes for a better social life and overall experience for non-trads. I will second the notion that nontrads are very visible at both Pitt and Case. Pitt even has an "old farts club" for the over 30 students. Case does brag that 10% of their students are over age 30. Other schools that seem to have a significant group of non-trads to me are U Mich, Baylor, U Miami, U Chicago, UAB, and USF. Of course, if you're not a Floridian, don't waste your time applying to USF. But if you are, I think it is THE most non-trad friendly school I visited.
I got the opposite impression at several other schools (i.e., that I'd be the only person there over age 30), including UF, Duke, Penn, Vanderbilt, and Wash U. But some of the schools in this category still accepted me anyway, so again, if you want to go to a "young" school, you should definitely go for it. You are a unique applicant, and you can't rationally base your application decisions on how other older applicants have fared solely based upon age. Best of luck to you.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but you'd be completely mistaken. Some of my rejections were even pre-secondary. I'm not exactly sure there is such a thing as a "standard" non-trad student anyway....doesn't the fact that we are non-trads inherently mean that we are all NOT standard students? 
Well, then, we have different ideas of what it means for a school to be "non-trad friendly." Getting accepted to a school doesn't mean that you will fit in; to me, what you are describing merely means that the school is not non-trad UNfriendly. But neutrality isn't the same as friendliness. Admittedly this issue is somewhat subjective, but I will argue that there is a huge difference in the "feel" of various schools. And it can't be denied that although no school outright discriminates against non-trads, some schools go out of their way to recruit non-trads and make them feel welcome as a matter of policy.Law2Doc said:
Well, then, we have different ideas of what it means for a school to be "non-trad friendly." Getting accepted to a school doesn't mean that you will fit in; to me, what you are describing merely means that the school is not non-trad UNfriendly. But neutrality isn't the same as friendliness. Admittedly this issue is somewhat subjective, but I will argue that there is a huge difference in the "feel" of various schools. And it can't be denied that although no school outright discriminates against non-trads, some schools go out of their way to recruit non-trads and make them feel welcome as a matter of policy.
The fact that thebrownnote and I both picked up on a friendly vibe at Pitt and Case is a good example of what I'm talking about. Why did we both mention those two schools in particular? Because they are schools where when the people there hear that you are over age 30, they are EXCITED about it. Schools like those two that *I* call non-trad friendly do things like put you in touch with current non-trad students, tell you about accomodations they have in place for older students, and generally go out of their way to let you know that they value the contributions of older students. You get the feeling that they think non-trads are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Even the trad students go out of their way to tell you how much they think having non-trad classmates adds to their learning experience. This is in huge contrast to other schools where I had interviewers grill me about how I would handle being ten years older than my classmates, current students comment to me that no students over age 30 were in their class or worse, current students who wanted to know why a student over 30 would even WANT to go to med school. At those schools, there was no mechanism in place to convince older students that this is a school that really wants them to come. Could I have attended a school like that? Sure. People weren't actively hostile toward me at even the youngest schools. But why would I want to? I'm definitely of the philosophy that you should love someone who loves you, not someone who just isn't unfriendly toward you.
As for the issue of whom you will hang out with, no, of course there is no guarantee that any particular person will become a close friend. But that's why it's nice to have a whole group of older students instead of just you and maybe one other person that you could wind up not caring for.
I can't speak to what other people mean when they say that a school is "friendly" to non-trads. Maybe you are right that most people, including the OP, want to ask where they have the greatest chance of getting accepted....using that definition, I'd change my answer to say that the most "non-trad friendly" schools are your state schools.
Counselor, you no doubt know the difference between questioning someone to see where they stand and haranging the witness. So do I.
Maybe at some schools, but that hasn't been my experience. It seems to me that at most places the non-trads tended to hone in on each other like we all had beacons. Not that older students only hang out with other older students; I don't mean to suggest that at all. My trad classmates are on the whole very friendly, and I'm sure yours are too. But it's still nice to have some classmates at the same stage in life that you are.Students will be a mixure of welcoming and cliquey anyplace, and to some extent some of the other nontrads are often going to be just as hard to mesh with.
Schools are happy to have a diverse class, but once you are in, there is certainly some degree of throwing you into the vast pond of traditional students and seeing if you sink or swim. Which is fine --with the right attitude and personality, this can be a friendly pond, and most of the younger crowd surprisingly welcoming. We are not talking "lord of the flies" socialization issues at any school.
True. But there's no rule saying that it has to be me.
Great post, Q!
True. But there's no rule saying that it has to be me.
Great post, Q!
Having recently been a "summer med student", I can say that from day 1, those of us with mortages, babies, life experience, ect naturally gravitated toward each other. And honestly, it was nice to not only have people with whom I could relate personally, but to study with as well. The nontrads were all about hitting the books ASAP, right after class. The trads seemed to take it in stride that they could study later, during which time we nontrads would be doing things with our families.
IMHO, med school is NOT the place to be "blazing new trails"!!!
So for me, I'd doubt there would be any perfect nontrad school.
Age differences mean less and less as you get older. I find that in general I tend to have a lot more in common with someone twenty years older than I am (early 50s) than I do with many people who are only ten years younger (early 20s). Nowadays I even find that sometimes I actually understand where my PARENTS are coming from....if you can imagine!
For the record, and to assuage Law2Doc's concern, my posts should not in any way, shape, or form be construed to mean that I am suggesting that any schools are systematically not "nice" to non-trads. I am simply posting my own personal experiences about schools that I personally felt were nice to me, an applicant/matriculant who happens to be a non-trad.
This is a difficult statement for me to respond to on several levels. I would agree with you that there is no such a thing as playing it safe as a non-trad, and I don't think that anything I've said should be construed to mean that I am advocating playing it safe. On the other hand, I want to enjoy my medical school years as much as possible. When I was making my decision about which school to attend, I had a very specific set of criteria, as I am sure all of us do. One thing that I came to realize was important to me, along with the usual considerations like curriculum features, financial aid, location, etc. was the makeup of the student body. I visited seventeen schools, and I tried to have as open of a mind as possible at each one. I took copious notes about my experience at each school and I revisited several of them. I would say that I "fell in love" with at least half the schools, and liked all of the others to various degrees. There was certainly no school where I visited and felt that no way under any circumstances would I ever agree to go here.
Moving to a new city is always difficult because of that aspect of having to start over. Again, this was why it mattered to me to have other older students around. I have met several med students who are single, over age 30, and do not have houses or kids, as I myself do not. I also became friendly with some single faculty members, grad students, and post docs over the summer before classes started.exlawgrrl said:
Then you'd fit into the nontrad with "life experiecne" category!
I was the only parent in my study group, the oldest, but had no "social issues" associating with the other nontrads who were at different levels of nontradness! ). Everyone is finding their way in med school, and the class is far more inclusive to nontrads than might be anticipated. For those of us okay without having many similarly situated peers in school, you can thrive at better than a hundred other schools in addition to those which have been mentioned thus far in this thread. They won't baby you or treat you special as a nontrad, or pair you up with similarly situated friends, but they will consider your application, may accept you, and then will work with you to make you a solid physician. To me that is nontrad friendly enough, and really all that I was looking for in this adventure. Good luck all.
I agree that non-trads can be successful and happy at any school. I hope you didn't take my argumentativeness to imply any lack of respect for you or your position, Law2Doc; you are one of my favorite SDNers.While I respect Q and 1Path's positions, I continue to feel that nontrads can fare better in the sea of trads than is being suggested, for the reason suggested in the excerpt from 1Path above (give or take the spelling of figment
If nothing else, this exercise in defining our terms was helpful, because it allowed us to realize that we were talking about different things and we wanted different things out of our medical school experience. I think we can sum up the following as our mutual points of agreement:
SDN doen't have spell check yet. Obviously, I'd DIE without it in other situations!for the reason suggested in the excerpt from 1Path above (give or take the spelling of figment
