Schools that have exotic electives?

[aellos]

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Hi guys!

I hope you guys had an amazing holiday and an even more wonderous new year!

I just wanted some opinions on which school you guys think have a "strong" exotics program. I understand that it doesn’t really matter where you go if you wanted to be boarded for exotics and all the possible tribulations that come with that-boarding isn’t something that I`m extremely interested in.

I was more asking about school that offer exotic med courses as electives. For example, I know UF and Kansas State do, but I`m pretty sure Mississippi doesn’t. Or if they partner with local zoos and such (Like UF and Kansas State do I believe) and offer an easier time per say to get a foundation in exotic med.

Costs aside, are there any school that you guys believe allow students more opportunities with exotic med? Basically, something you could list as a potentially draw to that school?

Mainly asking for my friend and to help some younger students, the doctors I work with can only think of Tennessee but that is out of the question for most of the students I`m trying to assist (OOS cost is so much oof).

Or if anything opinions on these school for getting a strong basis/possible extra practice in exotic med (these are the most looked at school from the prevet club); UF, Kansas, Illinoi, Iowa, Mississippi, Michigan, Ohio, Purdue?

I undestand if you guys arent really able to point in one direction, there are so many factors (Cost being the biggest and most important) but some of the kids were asking and while I was looking through all of the offered courses, I wanted to make sure that I wasnt missing anything.

Thanks so much!!

 

[WildZoo]

the doctors I work with can only think of Tennessee but that is out of the question for most of the students I`m trying to assist (OOS cost is so much oof).

Pretty much my contribution lol UTK is my alma mater and I highly recommend it for exotics-interested people but price tag is hefty so wouldn't go there if you have cheaper options

Otherwise I think looking at schools that have exotics or zoo residencies would help. That almost guarantees the presence of at least one boarded exotics and/or zoo vet, they're likely to have more exotics options in the curriculum, and you know they have the case load to support a residency.

I would add NCSU and Davis to your list off the top of my head and would nix Purdue and Mississippi - I have close friends who are/were interns there and their exotics caseloads and faculty support are minimal to nonexistent. I'm not as familiar with Iowa and Michigan. The others are good.

Edit: Cornell is another that has a zoo residency though I'm unsure about exotics options in their curriculum. Same with Colorado, Wisconsin, and Georgia. Note that these are specifically zoo/wildlife residencies and some of those get a significant amount of their caseload outside of the school at other institutions, whereas the companion exotics ones are usually more tied to the school itself.

 

[JaynaAli]

Georgia is a big name for exotic animal pathology, along with Illinois and UF. I can’t say for sure they have good living animal exotic programs because you can definitely have a busy exotics path service but maybe worth looking in to. I don’t think UGA takes a ton of OOS students (unless that’s changed) but might be worth looking at.

 

[battie]

Illinois has a strongly active zoo med program. Wildlife medical clinic, wildlife epi lab, residency and internship, general practice, pathology. We have approximately half our first years somewhat interested in zoo med of some sort when they start. There are still 4 or 5 people from 2020 actively gunning for zoo med board certification and plenty of people per class see exotics in general practice following graduation.

 

[katashark]

I would add Oregon - access to Wildlife Safari for rotations, and the curriculum offers exotics electives. Oregon also offers a non-traditional track that you can tailor to exotics or zoo if you want. You can get elective requirements out of the way in years 1-3 and then spend up to like 20 weeks of 4th year on your own path with externships. You'd have to be building your own program though, but the freedom is very nice.

 

[SnowJ]

Wisconsin is great for exotics as well since they have an exotics department.

Minnesota doesn't have an exotics program but works with the local zoos, has the Raptor center, and works with the wildlife rehab center

 

[aellos]

I would add NCSU and Davis to your list off the top of my head and would nix Purdue and Mississippi - I have close friends who are/were interns there and their exotics caseloads and faculty support are minimal to nonexistent. I'm not as familiar with Iowa and Michigan. The others are good.

Edit: Cornell is another that has a zoo residency though I'm unsure about exotics options in their curriculum. Same with Colorado, Wisconsin, and Georgia. Note that these are specifically zoo/wildlife residencies and some of those get a significant amount of their caseload outside of the school at other institutions, whereas the companion exotics ones are usually more tied to the school itself.

Thank you! And UTK would have been the dream honestly! The campus is so pretty and my doctor speaks highly of it (the one that went there was honestly super sad that I couldn’t apply due to costs, they kept talking about things I could do there and how I would fit in well :/) I couldn’t find anything really about exotics when I was talking to Mississippi (I honestly think they told me it was a weak point of theirs?) and my doctor from Purdue mentioned that they didn’t have that many opportunities (but they also really didn’t look for them so they weren’t so sure).

Thanks for the tip about Cornell! I know some of the students were looking into Colorado and Wisconsin but were a little scared due to the sheer amount that apply to them and the cost.

Since they are residencies, would you say it is "harder" to get a solid basis beforehand? As in most of the information and practice you would gain would be via these residencies? (Also, sorry if this is a stupid question, but is this a residency open to other school too? or more of an externship kind of deal?)

Georgia is a big name for exotic animal pathology, along with Illinois and UF... I don’t think UGA takes a ton of OOS students (unless that’s changed) but might be worth looking at.

Thanks for the information of Georgia! I`ll mention to the ones I know showed some interest in pathology! Do you know if UF`s focus is more on pathology or does it also branch into general practice? I was looking at some of their current electives but there is only so much you can gleam from stuff like that.

Illinois has a strongly active zoo med program. Wildlife medical clinic, wildlife epi lab, residency and internship, general practice, pathology.

That`s great to hear! I`m assuming it is more "competitive" to get into these electives (I`m not really sure how signing up for electives works in vet school oof) and residencies? If one isn’t interested in becoming boarded would it still make sense to try for these spots or are there other opportunities to get the experience without interfering with plans of your classmates (as in there`s only x spots for a certain class/residency so it would be "nicer" to let those who want to be boarded to get first chance at them? if you understand what I mean?)

I would add Oregon - access to Wildlife Safari for rotations, and the curriculum offers exotics electives. Oregon also offers a non-traditional track that you can tailor to exotics or zoo if you want. You can get elective requirements out of the way in years 1-3 and then spend up to like 20 weeks of 4th year on your own path with externships. You'd have to be building your own program though, but the freedom is very nice.

Thank you so much! I haven’t really seen Oregon brought up that much so I`ll be sure to mention it again to the club!

Wisconsin is great for exotics as well since they have an exotics department.

Minnesota doesn't have an exotics program but works with the local zoos, has the Raptor center, and works with the wildlife rehab center

Thank you so much! I know some are actually from Wisconsin so I`ll see if they can still qualify for IS tuition depending on when they apply!

Thank you all so much! I was trying to go off of what the AAZK was saying about programs, but I knew that some school offered courses and were listed.

Also, sorry but does anybody know about Iowa and Ohio? I think I remember reading that Iowa no longer has an exotics department per say but I would be remembering wrong.

Thank you so much!

 

[BigCats]

UF has a good program- you can get involved starting in first year with volunteering in the zoo med ward and get a bit of exposure and put your face out there. It's also a good school for people interested in aquatics, with an aquatic animal health certificate program and lots of aquatics faculty. Other things to consider would be how much free time you get in your curriculum- I'm talking externships as well as free summers. Because of the way UF's schedule is set up, there is no free summer between your 2nd and 3rd year unlike many other schools, so if you want to do a summer research program, preclinical externship, or one of the aquatics short courses like Aquavet or Seavet, you only have one summer available to do that in. Also, I know Oregon State and Ohio State both have tracks where you can end up with 20+ weeks of externships in your clinical year, whereas UF is more limited.

 

[WildZoo]

Since they are residencies, would you say it is "harder" to get a solid basis beforehand? As in most of the information and practice you would gain would be via these residencies? (Also, sorry if this is a stupid question, but is this a residency open to other school too? or more of an externship kind of deal?)

It really depends but in most cases you're certainly not going to get the same foundation in exotics that you will with your more typical species, even at schools that have good exotics programs. But you also don't need a residency to see exotics at all. Taking advantage of those extra learning opportunities during school plus externships helps, and good mentorship and learning on the job once you're out in practice.

I'm not 100% sure what you're asking with your second question - residencies are additional training that you apply for after vet school.

 

[WildZoo]

Also, sorry but does anybody know about Iowa and Ohio? I think I remember reading that Iowa no longer has an exotics department per say but I would be remembering wrong.

@Doggo Labs or @Barkley13 may be able to speak on Iowa

Can't think of any current Ohio people or recent grads off the top of my head but at least historically I believe they have been in that pool of good exotics programs, and they do have a zoo residency that is involved with the Columbus Zoo

 

[battie]

That`s great to hear! I`m assuming it is more "competitive" to get into these electives (I`m not really sure how signing up for electives works in vet school oof) and residencies? If one isn’t interested in becoming boarded would it still make sense to try for these spots or are there other opportunities to get the experience without interfering with plans of your classmates (as in there`s only x spots for a certain class/residency so it would be "nicer" to let those who want to be boarded to get first chance at them? if you understand what I mean?)

Almost none of the exotics stuff was competitive to be involved in while I was at Illinois. Plenty of spots in the classes and the profs would take you on for research if you showed initiative and met with them. The sole exception I think would be the 4th year clinical rotation for Brookfield Zoo; the zoo saves approximately 16 spots for Illinois students and my class had 30 people apply.

 

[SnowJ]

Since they are residencies, would you say it is "harder" to get a solid basis beforehand? As in most of the information and practice you would gain would be via these residencies?

Any school that has a residency is probably more likely to get students a more solid basis beforehand, since they are more likely to have those residents lecture and implement more exotics material into the curriculum. Depending on the school there are often ways to work, shadow, or volunteer in the hospital before clinics, so these schools would also have easier access to direct experience.
At any school you can always get a very solid basis from shadowing and working with clinics that work with exotics outside of the school too.

(Also, sorry if this is a stupid question, but is this a residency open to other school too? or more of an externship kind of deal?)

Residencies and internships are open to all veterinarians to apply to (barring preference for internship ahead of time etc etc). Some schools actually prefer to take interns or residents who went to other schools. [this is a vast oversimplification but you get the point]
For clarity: residencies are the multi year post-DVM education that most boarded specialists go through for their training. Internships are typically one year, and can either be specialty-specific or broadly rotating throughout multiple specialties in the hospital.
Externships can either be summer/winter break programs or specific to clinical year rotations; for the later case they are specifically rotations done outside of your school's teaching hospital.

That`s great to hear! I`m assuming it is more "competitive" to get into these electives (I`m not really sure how signing up for electives works in vet school oof) and residencies? If one isn’t interested in becoming boarded would it still make sense to try for these spots or are there other opportunities to get the experience without interfering with plans of your classmates (as in there`s only x spots for a certain class/residency so it would be "nicer" to let those who want to be boarded to get first chance at them? if you understand what I mean?)

Elective courses aren't typically competitive with some exceptions. For example UMN's main zoo course had an application you needed to fill out because of limited spots, and our 4th year necropsy rotation is only offered once so it's also more competitive.
Most of the time this isn't an issue, especially since there are so many things that fall under zoo/exotics. Some people will go to wildlife, some actual zoo animals, some exotic pets, some marine mammals, some fish, etc etc. There's enough niches that the opportunities won't necessarily overlap all of the time. This will depend widely on the school and how they structure their classes, but there are also lots of club opportunities and other ways to get experience/education even if the electives don't work out.
Regardless people should try for opportunities that interest them even if they don't necessarily want to pursue specialization; these types of things make vet school fun!

 

[battie]

If one isn’t interested in becoming boarded would it still make sense to try for these spots or are there other opportunities to get the experience without interfering with plans of your classmates

I do want to touch on this as well. It is not *your* responsibility to tailor *your* schedule and life choices to make *other's* dreams come true. That is *their* responsibility.

For the people that truly want to be boarded, there's nothing you will do that will make their life more difficult; they will do what they need to do to get where they need to go. There are so few zoo med residencies, that the bottle neck is truly the residency stage. You taking an avian elective your third year where a classmate couldn't will not be a major barrier to their career goals.

So do what you want. It's your education that you're spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on and 4+ years of your life. Do whatever you want to do and don't worry about other people's careers.

 

[alleycat03]

I will also add in that K-State does have a great exotics program. Many of my classmates are very interested in exotics. We have a very active exotics club and have a partnership with the Sunset Zoo (our zoo in Manhattan, KS) and I am pretty sure they also see patients from other zoos in KS. They are also working on getting an exotic animal certificate program set up. It is almost finalized, enough so that the class of 2025 can start working to earn it but it hasn’t been completely approved yet by administration. Within that certificate program, you take so many electives and 4th year courses geared towards exotic animals that you earn a certificate in addition to your DVM. And you are able to tailor your electives and 4th year clinics to focus on exotics, so it’s not an additional cost. You’re tailoring your courses to focus on exotics so when you graduate it shows that you’re dedicated to the field and you have that certificate to help with admissions to internships and residencies if you decide to go that route.

 

[alissa14]

I can tell you Michigan State is not the place to go if you have a strong interest in exotics. Great program just not for exotics

 

[jaboo]

Re: Cornell, they have both exotics courses offered for elective prior to clinics as well as opportunities during clinics. I believe you can track zoo/exotics during 4th year. I have a few friends who are tracking small animals + exotics as well.

 

[aellos]

I can tell you Michigan State is not the place to go if you have a strong interest in exotics. Great program just not for exotics

Really? Do this change recently? I remember when I used to help at my local zoo the mentioned Michigan State as having an exotic program and the AAZK has them listed as having a program. But the ACZM doesnt, which I guess is more up to date/accurate. (It is also weird the the AAZK list some schools, like Kansas, but the ACZM doesnt?)

Thanks for the information! Looking at the website it seems to be more an outpatient service now and more focusing on wildlife?