Dismiss Notice

Interview Feedback: Visit Interview Feedback to view and submit interview information.

Interviewing Masterclass: Free masterclass on interviewing from SDN and Medical College of Georgia

Schools that institute a *strict* numbers cutoff.

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by Deuteronomy, Mar 19, 2004.

  1. Deuteronomy

    Deuteronomy Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    0
    I called UCLA med and a representative told me that students need a 10 minimum on each MCAT subsection and a 3.5 minimum GPA to get through the computer screening. She said the adcom won't even *look* at your essay if you don't meet this requirement.

    I called back the next day and *another* person said that they read your essay regardless of your quantitative data. WTF!!

    O.K., 1) who's telling the truth? and 2) are there any schools that SDNers are aware of that DO INDEED institute straight computerized cutoffs without reading your essay.

    Let's ignore the URM and disadvantaged scenarios for this thread please.. thanks


    Deuteronomy:)
     
  2. Celestron2000

    Celestron2000 Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    514
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Medical Student
    I would tend to believe in the cut-off.
     
  3. Brickhouse

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2003
    Messages:
    4,173
    Likes Received:
    9
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    I work at UCLA and took the Kaplan class in Westwood. One of the teachers at that particular Kaplan was a member of the adcomm at UCLA. According to him, they had someone matriculate last year with a 24 on the MCAT. So someone is full of BS, not sure which one.
     
  4. Brickhouse

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2003
    Messages:
    4,173
    Likes Received:
    9
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Yes Cel is probably right, this guy was probably just trying to be encouraging - after all, he did tell us this during the pre-MCAT de-stress party. LOL
     
  5. jlee9531

    jlee9531 J,A,S
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Messages:
    5,470
    Likes Received:
    8
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    thats probably a lie...or else i wouldnt have gotten an interview.

    im thinking iowa and ohsu have cutoffs...

    a lot of other schools may have "guidelines" to follow...not necessarily a strict cutoffs...but maybe look at applicants with ideal numbers first before they do applicants that dont necessarily meet their "guidelines"

    i wouldnt be surprised if many schools did this. i dont like it but it sounds reasonable for adcoms to do.
     
  6. frick

    frick Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2003
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    0
    That cutoff is probably instituted if you're white/asian.
     
  7. celticmists18

    celticmists18 california dreaming
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    427
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Medical Student
    I can tell you that at least the part about the MCAT cut-off isn't true. My roomate was asked to fill out a secondary and she did not have above a 10 on every section.
     
  8. tautomer

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2003
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    2
    plase tell me that is for out-of-state applicants only. That would stink to be a Cali resident and have such strict cut offs. :(
     
  9. Deuteronomy

    Deuteronomy Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    0
    thanks for the feedback thus far...and it's encouraging for UCLA at least.

    I have been hovering around a 9 on the verbal (on all the practice tests), and I'm worried I may score below 10 on this *particular* section. Darn my ESL background!

    If you guys have any other schools on the list besides Iowa + OHSU, I would appreciated it.


    Deuteronomy:)
     
  10. snapdad

    snapdad Rock and Roll Doctor
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    607
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Non-Student
    I've heard that the University of Colorado has one, although I'm not sure what it is. I think ~9 on the verbal would be ok, as I know of people there that got that score.

    I'm guessing Rochester may have one as well. They say they "strongly discourage" applicants who don't have double digits on each section of the MCAT.
     
  11. jlee9531

    jlee9531 J,A,S
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Messages:
    5,470
    Likes Received:
    8
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    im asian and i got interviewed with a gpa lower than 3.5.
     
  12. docmemi

    docmemi 1K Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Messages:
    1,494
    Likes Received:
    3
    generally you need at least an 8 on verbal to make computer cutoffs. otherwise you have to be screened by a person at which point they will look at things like clinical experience, other numbers, etc.
     
  13. edfig99

    Physician Faculty 15+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    688
    Likes Received:
    11
    Status:
    Attending Physician, Academic Administration
    i don't know about your case specifically, but some schools do have a computer screen and they choose their secondary application cutoffs...some may go as low as 8s...others double digits. those that aren't computer-screened in at some schools will be automatically rejected. other schools send a secondary to anyone that applied (then they collect your fees and reject you later). others take a random sampling of those rejected by the computer screen and put some people back into the secondary/interview pool. and some schools may look at everyone that didn't screen in, and put some back into the pool. it's pretty variable. i don't think any school REALLY implements a strict numbers cutoff, since much of what makes a student body special is beyond the numbers.
     
  14. PMED99

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Medical Student
    The admissions director for another school told me that if I did not have a 30 on the MCAT and a 3.5 or up that I would get an email that same day rejecting me. He said it firm and right to me in a one on one conversation.

    Well, I applied to this out of state school regardless of what he said and I got a secondary and was put into the interview pool. I know its not much to get a secondary but they do limit number of secondaries.

    I think its a stupid thing for him to say that to me if it was not true. I would not be surprised if other schools say similar things.
     
  15. shawred

    shawred Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2003
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    1
    There probably aren't many schools (if any) that have strict cutoffs. Lets assume you have a 15 in PhySci, a 15 in BioSci, and a 7 in verbal. It would be stupid to cut that person out based on that one section alone.
     
  16. jtn

    jtn Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2002
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree.

    As long as you get a 8 or higher in verbal and double digits in the sciences, you'll be ok.

    If you have these MCAT scores, your application will be strong as steel if you also have a 3.75 or above GPA, extremely strong recommendations, and clinical, research, and teaching experiences.

    Remember, it's the whole package they're looking at. If you can't improve on your MCAT...then put your energy to improve other areas of your application (essay<---very very important, recommendation letters, experiences, etc.). Think about it, when you go to buy a car, you usually don't buy it just because it has the best cup holder. Your decision to buy is based on many more features on the car.

    My advice it to DIVERSIFY! It works in the financial world and works like a charm when applying to medical school. Don't put all your gold in one pot. Diversify your energy and make sure every part of your application is strong. If you spend to much time working on one part, other parts of the application will suffer. Goodluck. jtn.
     
  17. boomuntilnoon

    boomuntilnoon Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2002
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    0
    At UT-Memphis as an out-of-state applicant, you must have at least a 10-10-10 on the MCAT to be considered .
     
  18. ForceField

    ForceField Impervious
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2002
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    0
    For U-Iowa out-of-state applicants, you must have 10B, 9P, 9V, minimum to be interviewed. Ultimately for some schools, yes, there are number cut-offs for certain categories of applicants, but there will always be exceptions for a select few.
     
  19. louren

    louren Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2003
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    I interviewed out-of-state at Univ of Iowa with numbers less than those. Waitlisted, though, so maybe my numbers killed me after all...

    Not an URM.
     
  20. TheFlash

    TheFlash Playtime Is Over
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2003
    Messages:
    4,775
    Likes Received:
    1
    NYU has been known to have a pretty strict cut-off for non-URM applicants to determine if they want you to interview.
     
  21. Tritonslo

    Tritonslo Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    So here is a document I picked up on SDN a while ago explaining how the admission process works at Stanford(2001 admissions Annual Report). I feel like most schools have a similar process where they put you into a computer program and screen you first. Those with great numbers get secondaries, bad numbers rejected and those who are in the middle get evaluated more closely for signs of extracurricular achievement.

    I talked to the assistant Dean of Admissions at BU and found that the process there is similar. They have a numbers screen, 30 MCAT, 3.5 GPA. Those above that cutoff get their essay and activities read and based on those are offered interviews. She did say, however, that there is a small group of committee members that shuffles through the "borderline" candidates and those with skewed scores(like a 37 MCAT, 3.3 GPA).

    I know it sounds unfair that your application doesn't even get read if you have really low numbers but with 9000 applications I guess its necessary. I wish schools would be straight with applicants about their admissions processes. That way a lot of applicants wouldn't have to spend a 100 bucks for a computer scan and subsequent rejection letter.
     

    Attached Files:

  22. krichan

    krichan Junior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    anyone know which mcat scores they screen if you 've taken it more than once?
     
  23. LP1CW

    LP1CW Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2003
    Messages:
    651
    Likes Received:
    1
    How Can a 30 be the Cutoff at BU when their average is below 30? The math doesn't work out.
     
  24. apar01

    apar01 Certified Consumer
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2002
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    One of the Deans of Admission from UT Southwestern came to my school and said that for Texas residents, to guarantee an interview you need a 3.5 GPA and 31 MCAT. For out of state, it was more like 3.7/33.
     
  25. medic8m

    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2004
    Messages:
    444
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Medical Student
    I know someone who matriculated at UCLA and interviewed at UCSF who got a 7 on verbal. (Cali resident)
     
  26. Tritonslo

    Tritonslo Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe there are two reasons why the average MCAT for BU is below 30 even after the presumed cutoff.

    The first is the fact that roughly 30-40 spots out of the 160 at BU go to students in the masters program there. The average MCAT for those students is less than 30, more like 26-27.

    The second reason is due to affirmative action. The average MCAT of underrepresented minorities is much less than 30.

    I'm willing to bet that the average non-masters student, non-under-represented minority MCAT average is more like 31-32. When you factor in everyone the average goes down to 29 or so.

    Its interesting to note that BU's selection rank in the U.S news and world report is 73 even though they are ranked 40 overall. I'm guessing this is due to the multiple pathways into their program.
     
  27. krichan

    krichan Junior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tritonslo,

    Do you know where the person who posted the Stanford annual admissions report found it? I'm wondering whether one can find similar info for each school on the web. That would save me so much trouble.
     
  28. exmike

    exmike NOR * CAL
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2003
    Messages:
    4,206
    Likes Received:
    10
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    I know a cali resident that matriculated at UCSF with a 2.9, and was not URM.
     
  29. Fixed Gear

    Fixed Gear Highly Acetylated Locus
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2001
    Messages:
    739
    Likes Received:
    1
    It would be awesome if schools were more up front about these numbers and cutoffs. Obviously, it would help applicants save a lot of money if we knew there were schools that wouldn't even get to the rest of our application if we didn't meet a numerical criteria based on our GPA/MCATs. For me personally, that would be a huge help if I knew this since (if I do choose to apply) my Ugrad GPA is like a 3.1 (low) but I'll have a PhD from (what I consider to be) an excellent school and will have a fantastic graduate GPA, tons of teaching, tutoring and community service work as well as (hopefully) a bunch of publications (My PI said I can graduate once I have 2+ middle author AND 2+ first author pubs).

    But ultimately, I can't see schools going for it- they'd lose money and their applicant pool would shrink. Two things most schools would be unhappy about.
     
  30. SailCrazy

    SailCrazy I gotta have more cowbell
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,922
    Likes Received:
    10
    I think that the point of many of these posts was to explain that there is not a strict cutoff at most schools!



     
  31. jlee9531

    jlee9531 J,A,S
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Messages:
    5,470
    Likes Received:
    8
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    exactly!

    there are only a few schools like iowa that for sure have strict cutoffs.
     
  32. deejayshakur

    deejayshakur Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2002
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    0
    i'm very underwhelmed with UCLA's admissions office.

    i'm an undergrad here, and i went in three times last week to speak with an admission officer, asking how they determine the 1 year math requirement when you apply. i won't get into detail, but basically, i got 3 different responses from 2 people. i talked to the same person the 1st and 3rd times. each time i went in, they seemed like they would rather be doing anything else but talking to me.

    the OP's experience just confirms their ******edness. makes me wonder if i should even waste money applying here.
     
  33. jlee9531

    jlee9531 J,A,S
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Messages:
    5,470
    Likes Received:
    8
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    yes you should. this type of annoyance and frustration exists on all levels and in all different kind of fields. doesnt mean you shouldnt apply man. ask if you can see a person higher up in the chain.

    oh and dont forget to take statistics too.
     
  34. derf

    derf Ohio Land
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm also a UCLA student. I asked UCLA if I can waive out of taking statistics since i'm an EE major (took 7 math courses plus probability). They were like absolutely, no problem! Then I called a week later and asked the same question and they were like No WAY, NO Exceptions to the rule...You're not special! WTF!
     
  35. scootad.

    scootad. Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2001
    Messages:
    879
    Likes Received:
    128
    After having gone through the process and now in medical school my best advice is not to pay attention to these silly requirements. Beyond the obvious premed requirements (bio, chem, orgo, physics, calc) take whatever courses you will enjoy most. Even schools that "say" they require biochem, statistics whatever do not really enforce this and like you guys say you will get 4 different answers from 3 different people from the same school. Its ridiculous. For instance, i never took biochem even though the school i currently attend says it "requires" it in the AAMC book. Needless to say they accepted me anyway and it was never an issue.
     
  36. AD2020

    AD2020 Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've heard that some schools have a cutoff based on (GPA)*(MCAT score)*(school weight), where the school weight is their subjective weight of the difficulty of your undergraduate institution.
     
  37. Wow, wish I had known about all this back when I was applying to med school. I didn't know they had screening cut-offs, like some residency programs! :(
     
  38. choocoman

    choocoman Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2004
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    0
    you got an interview. did you get in?
     
  39. Cerbernator

    Cerbernator Retired
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,370
    Likes Received:
    0
    it would seem my MCAT is my kiss of death :(
     
  40. Pinkertinkle

    Pinkertinkle 2003 Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    Messages:
    5,004
    Likes Received:
    78
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    So do any American schools include writing sample in their screens? Aside from that forsaken Arizona.
     
  41. Jason110

    Jason110 Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2003
    Messages:
    712
    Likes Received:
    0

    Two schools I know of have VERY, VERY strict cut-offs:

    University of Miami
    http://www.miami.edu/UMH/CDA/UMH_Main/0,1770,2600-1;14190-2;27122-3,00.html

    Secondary Application

    "The AMCAS application is used to identify applicants about whom the Committee on Admissions would like more information. These applicants will be invited to complete a Supplementary (Secondary) Application. To be invited to complete a secondary application, Florida residents must have either 1) an undergraduate cumulative GPA of at least 3.2, or 2) a post-bac or graduate cumulative GPA of at least 3.5 (minimum of 15 credits). Residents of other states must have an undergraduate GPA of at least 3.6."


    University of Utah
    http://uuhsc.utah.edu/som/admissions/brochure.html#APP
    They even have requirements for the number of "patient contact hours" and "shadowing hours".
     
  42. Code Brown

    Code Brown Low man on the totem pole
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,111
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Creighton specifically states that no one with a sub-3.2 GPA should apply.
     
  43. choocoman

    choocoman Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2004
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    0
    your 29 isnt that bad, its just average or below average for the schools you want to attend.
     
  44. WillHague007

    WillHague007 Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2004
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would agree with that cutoff of an 8 for UCLA, for OUT OF STATE RESIDENTS...I mean, there are only like 10 kids from out of state at UCLA each year so those kids have to be the best of the best of the best to get in....just my 2 cents
     

Share This Page