Science GPA question

[jerfer]

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so I applied this cycle and did not have success with MD schools. next step for me is getting feedback from the schools I applied to see what they did/didn't like about my app.

This morning I spoke with one of the programs I applied to (a state school, i was applying as an OOS applicant) and they specifically commented on my GPA. my cGPA is a 3.8 which was "solid," but my sGPA, a 3.7, was considered on the "lower end of the spectrum." they specifically recommended that I look into a graduate program, but I a not sure I could justify spending thousands of dollars on grad school when my GPA seems to be fine... any thoughts on this?

 

[CHoge25]

In most cases that would not be considered a low science gpa and seems like an odd reason for them to deny you. MCAT maybe? Weak EC's?

 

[thrudheim]

Which school told you this? If it is a top-tier school, then that seems reasonable.

Regardless, I don't think an sGPA of 3.7 necessitates a graduate program/post-bacc, and it should be fine for most schools.

 

[redferrari]

Was the school UCSF, UTSW, or somewhere highly ranked? It seems very picky to say a 3.7 is low.

 

[Goro]

Lower end of the spectrum????? What state school was this? U MI? UCSF? U VA?

You either need a better list, OR the person you were talking to was trying to be very polite and couldn't say that you either have a red flag of a LOR, or you completely screwed up your interview.

Can you share your list and stats?

Note: just re-read your post. State schools favor the home team, so you need to better than median for them.

so I applied this cycle and did not have success with MD schools. next step for me is getting feedback from the schools I applied to see what they did/didn't like about my app.

This morning I spoke with one of the programs I applied to (a state school, i was applying as an OOS applicant) and they specifically commented on my GPA. my cGPA is a 3.8 which was "solid," but my sGPA, a 3.7, was considered on the "lower end of the spectrum." they specifically recommended that I look into a graduate program, but I a not sure I could justify spending thousands of dollars on grad school when my GPA seems to be fine... any thoughts on this?

 

[jerfer]

It was IU. I knew my MCAT was my weakest point, which was what I had expected going in. I asked specifically for feedback on my EC's etc, which they said were totally fine and didn't warrant any significant efforts to improve. and yes, since I am OOS i can see that this was SOMEWHAT reasonable, but not for this school in particular. as far as the MCAT goes, >512 would be fine for this program. the main suggestion overall was looking into a post-bac, and gently suggested that I would be fine if I retake the MCAT and improved my score.

Also, keep in mind, this school extends interview invitations based off of the AMCAS primary.

MCAT: 27 (PS 10 BS 11 VR 6)
new MCAT, 501 (don't remember sub scores, but CARS was the lowest.)

 

[jerfer]

so I applied this cycle and did not have success with MD schools. next step for me is getting feedback from the schools I applied to see what they did/didn't like about my app.

This morning I spoke with one of the programs I applied to (a state school, i was applying as an OOS applicant) and they specifically commented on my GPA. my cGPA is a 3.8 which was "solid," but my sGPA, a 3.7, was considered on the "lower end of the spectrum." they specifically recommended that I look into a graduate program, but I a not sure I could justify spending thousands of dollars on grad school when my GPA seems to be fine... any thoughts on this?

Which school told you this? If it is a top-tier school, then that seems reasonable.

Regardless, I don't think an sGPA of 3.7 necessitates a graduate program/post-bacc, and it should be fine for most schools.

Lower end of the spectrum????? What state school was this? U MI? UCSF? U VA?

You either need a better list, OR the person you were talking to was trying to be very polite and couldn't say that you either have a red flag of a LOR, or you completely screwed up your interview.

Can you share your list and stats?

Note: just re-read your post. State schools favor the home team, so you need to better than median for them.

for the record, I promise I am very much aware that my MCAT is completely off base for MD schools. I have just started studying for a retake, and I've identified my weak points. basically working on CARS/VR to the death. But i was caught totally off guard by the GPA thing. I think my other possible weak point could be not enough non-medical volunteering/community service, but other than that, EC's i think are fairly solid.

 

[Goro]

I don't know why the person didn't just come out and say it, but your MCAT scores are lethal for MD schools. OK for many DO (but not mine).

for the record, I promise I am very much aware that my MCAT is completely off base for MD schools. I have just started studying for a retake, and I've identified my weak points. basically working on CARS/VR to the death. But i was caught totally off guard by the GPA thing. I think my other possible weak point could be not enough non-medical volunteering/community service, but other than that, EC's i think are fairly solid.

 

[CHoge25]

for the record, I promise I am very much aware that my MCAT is completely off base for MD schools. I have just started studying for a retake, and I've identified my weak points. basically working on CARS/VR to the death. But i was caught totally off guard by the GPA thing. I think my other possible weak point could be not enough non-medical volunteering/community service, but other than that, EC's i think are fairly solid.

A 3rd MCAT won't really be too helpful for MD schools... You have sort of proved yourself with 2 attempts already... I would just apply broadly to DO schools next cycle and you should have some luck!

 

[soadhead]

Maybe the person giving you feedback was looking at the wrong file.

 

[jerfer]

I don't know why the person didn't just come out and say it, but your MCAT scores are lethal for MD schools. OK for many DO (but not mine).

@Goro, thoughts on a retake? Also, just got this from another one of the MD schools that I got feedback from: "Multiple MCATs are common. Obviously a negative trend in scores isn’t a good thing, but if a student improves it isn’t looked at negatively."

A 3rd MCAT won't really be too helpful for MD schools... You have sort of proved yourself with 2 attempts already... I would just apply broadly to DO schools next cycle and you should have some luck!

 

[mimelim]

so I applied this cycle and did not have success with MD schools. next step for me is getting feedback from the schools I applied to see what they did/didn't like about my app.

This morning I spoke with one of the programs I applied to (a state school, i was applying as an OOS applicant) and they specifically commented on my GPA. my cGPA is a 3.8 which was "solid," but my sGPA, a 3.7, was considered on the "lower end of the spectrum." they specifically recommended that I look into a graduate program, but I a not sure I could justify spending thousands of dollars on grad school when my GPA seems to be fine... any thoughts on this?

It was IU. I knew my MCAT was my weakest point, which was what I had expected going in. I asked specifically for feedback on my EC's etc, which they said were totally fine and didn't warrant any significant efforts to improve. and yes, since I am OOS i can see that this was SOMEWHAT reasonable, but not for this school in particular. as far as the MCAT goes, >512 would be fine for this program. the main suggestion overall was looking into a post-bac, and gently suggested that I would be fine if I retake the MCAT and improved my score.

Also, keep in mind, this school extends interview invitations based off of the AMCAS primary.

MCAT: 27 (PS 10 BS 11 VR 6)
new MCAT, 501 (don't remember sub scores, but CARS was the lowest.)

for the record, I promise I am very much aware that my MCAT is completely off base for MD schools. I have just started studying for a retake, and I've identified my weak points. basically working on CARS/VR to the death. But i was caught totally off guard by the GPA thing. I think my other possible weak point could be not enough non-medical volunteering/community service, but other than that, EC's i think are fairly solid.

The person that answered the phone a) had the wrong file, b) didn't know what they were talking about or c) didn't want to tell you why you weren't accepted. In no universe is a 3.8/3.7 the reason that any school doesn't accept someone. Maybe in combination with a bunch of other things, but as a single driving factor that should be improved on? No way.

One should not be retaking the MCAT unless there is reasonable expectation of improvement. Given that most people stay the same or do worse, it is a waste of time to retake the MCAT unless there are specific things that will change the second time around. Taking the MCAT 3 times without improvement is a marker of poor judgement. It also calls into question a higher GPA and highlights the glossed over things like major, course load, etc. The first question is, "Is there any reason to expect your MCAT score to improve on a subsequent test?" This isn't about studying more. You presumably did that when you retook the MCAT.

 

[jerfer]

The person that answered the phone a) had the wrong file, b) didn't know what they were talking about or c) didn't want to tell you why you weren't accepted. In no universe is a 3.8/3.7 the reason that any school doesn't accept someone. Maybe in combination with a bunch of other things, but as a single driving factor that should be improved on? No way.

One should not be retaking the MCAT unless there is reasonable expectation of improvement. Given that most people stay the same or do worse, it is a waste of time to retake the MCAT unless there are specific things that will change the second time around. Taking the MCAT 3 times without improvement is a marker of poor judgement. It also calls into question a higher GPA and highlights the glossed over things like major, course load, etc. The first question is, "Is there any reason to expect your MCAT score to improve on a subsequent test?" This isn't about studying more. You presumably did that when you retook the MCAT.

they mentioned that my "cGPA was solid," but specifically commented on my sGPA, stating that it was on the lower end of the spectrum for OOS applicants to their school. I don't believe this was the single driving factor behind their rejection, but they did mention that my sGPA may have in part contribute to the reason I did not get an interview. sorry if what I said was confusing before, but my MCAT was for sure the factors that contributed most to my rejection.

I absolutely appreciate the perspective on the MCAT, and I definitely agree with what you're saying as far as the way that multiple retakes is perceived, so thank you for taking the time to interject that reality. Ultimately, I understand that it's my responsibility to figure out what's going wrong and do what I have to do to improve. I intend on doing just that and applying more strategically next time.

 

[Goro]

I agree 100% with the wise Mimelim, and I have trouble believing that your sGPA was part of the problem.

If you're boning for the MD degree, then a retake and acing the MCAT is required. You'll get your most love from your state school.

they mentioned that my "cGPA was solid," but specifically commented on my sGPA, stating that it was on the lower end of the spectrum for OOS applicants to their school. I don't believe this was the single driving factor behind their rejection, but they did mention that my sGPA may have in part contribute to the reason I did not get an interview. sorry if what I said was confusing before, but my MCAT was for sure the factors that contributed most to my rejection.

I absolutely appreciate the perspective on the MCAT, and I definitely agree with what you're saying as far as the way that multiple retakes is perceived, so thank you for taking the time to interject that reality. Ultimately, I understand that it's my responsibility to figure out what's going wrong and do what I have to do to improve. I intend on doing just that and applying more strategically next time.

 

[jerfer]

thanks for the advice, everyone

 

[GrapesofRath]

they mentioned that my "cGPA was solid," but specifically commented on my sGPA, stating that it was on the lower end of the spectrum for OOS applicants to their school. I don't believe this was the single driving factor behind their rejection, but they did mention that my sGPA may have in part contribute to the reason I did not get an interview. sorry if what I said was confusing before, but my MCAT was for sure the factors that contributed most to my rejection.

I absolutely appreciate the perspective on the MCAT, and I definitely agree with what you're saying as far as the way that multiple retakes is perceived, so thank you for taking the time to interject that reality. Ultimately, I understand that it's my responsibility to figure out what's going wrong and do what I have to do to improve. I intend on doing just that and applying more strategically next time.

Forget about what one school said. In the grand scheme of things it's mostly irrelevant.

MD matriculant statistics from this past year

cGPA: 3.69+/ 0.25
sGPA: 3.63 +/- 0.32
MCAT: 31.4 +/- 3.9

You tell me where your weakness is. If one school found something so problematic with a 3.7 sGPA, forget about them. The vast majority wont. In order to get anybody to buy into you(which is what an application is) you have to know your own strengths and your own weaknesses. When you have an above average GPA and an MCAT that is more than 1 SD below the MD matriculant(after multiple attempts) it should be very obvious where these are. If you want to improve your odds of getting into an MD school, you work on your weaknesses, not your strengths.

Follow basic logic instead of the word of one individual picking up the phone at one school. If something sounds way off and doesnt follow basic logic, it probably is off.

 

[gyngyn]

The person answering the phone could have been a work study student!

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

It was IU. I knew my MCAT was my weakest point, which was what I had expected going in. I asked specifically for feedback on my EC's etc, which they said were totally fine and didn't warrant any significant efforts to improve. and yes, since I am OOS i can see that this was SOMEWHAT reasonable, but not for this school in particular. as far as the MCAT goes, >512 would be fine for this program. the main suggestion overall was looking into a post-bac, and gently suggested that I would be fine if I retake the MCAT and improved my score.

Also, keep in mind, this school extends interview invitations based off of the AMCAS primary.

MCAT: 27 (PS 10 BS 11 VR 6)
new MCAT, 501 (don't remember sub scores, but CARS was the lowest.)

Strange they would cite GPA. 3.7 is a very solid sGPA.

A 501 (~25) MCAT is going to be lethal at any MD school. The fact that your score went down will be trouble even for many DO's. Apply broadly to all DO schools, especially new or lower ranked schools.

 

[jerfer]

Strange they would cite GPA. 3.7 is a very solid sGPA.

A 501 (~25) MCAT is going to be lethal at any MD school. The fact that your score went down will be trouble even for many DO's. Apply broadly to all DO schools, especially new or lower ranked schools.

gotcha. idk if it makes a difference or not, but each of my previous scores were wildly unbalanced. VR/CARS has been a very weak point for me, and tanked my composite scores in both cases. my main focus for the retake is getting that score up.

 

[7331poas]

This is an OOS state school. They could have limited seats and high standards for GPA.

 

[soadhead]

This is an OOS state school. They could have limited seats and high standards for GPA.

Yes, but there is basically no reason to bring up the sGPA when the MCAT is clearly the problem, and they suggested looking into a graduate program, which makes no sense at all.

 

[Goro]

This is not a good sign. You have to excel in all the categories. We expect medical students to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.

gotcha. idk if it makes a difference or not, but each of my previous scores were wildly unbalanced. VR/CARS has been a very weak point for me, and tanked my composite scores in both cases. my main focus for the retake is getting that score up.