Scientology and Psychiatry

[rlx009]

I was walking down 3rd st promenade in Santa Monica and the scientology folks were out with their "psychiatry kills" display setup that was pretty impressive if it wasn't such BS. I got into what started as a polite discussion with one of the reps, and surprisingly she was interested in where I worked and in the field, even when the displays had pics of Nazis and whipped slaves, somehow correlating psychiatry with these horrible events in history.

I explained that ECT was actually quite beneficial, and she thought we insert probes into patients' brains. I could tell these people had no idea, and they tried to distance themselves from the church of scientology by saying they were "associated with." It was incredibly distressing to see people reading such garbage. Anyway I was wondering if anybody here had run into these people and what you felt about it. We've come a long way from questionable therapies of the past, and this doesn't help. From what I understand this appears to be Hubbard's continued assault on the profession, given he really needed the help.

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[erg923]

I was walking down 3rd st promenade in Santa Monica and the scientology folks were out with their "psychiatry kills" display setup that was pretty impressive if it wasn't such BS. I got into what started as a polite discussion with one of the reps, and surprisingly she was interested in where I worked and in the field, even when the displays had pics of Nazis and whipped slaves, somehow correlating psychiatry with these horrible events in history.

I explained that ECT was actually quite beneficial, and she thought we insert probes into patients' brains. I could tell these people had no idea, and they tried to distance themselves from the church of scientology by saying they were "associated with." It was incredibly distressing to see people reading such garbage. Anyway I was wondering if anybody here had run into these people and what you felt about it. We've come a long way from questionable therapies of the past, and this doesn't help. From what I understand this appears to be Hubbard's continued assault on the profession, given he really needed the help.

People also believe 9/11 was a conspiracy by Bush and that a pedophile ring was run from a DC pizza shop.

There is vast literature on personality correlates of conspiratorial beliefs (drives, needs, effect of power, existing cognitive bias/schema, etc.). Understanding why people believe things in the face of overwhelming objective evidence and that they essentially believe what they want to believe is whole subfield of both experimental and clinical psychology. Its useful to understand this literature if you intent to engage in the practice of clinical psychiatry/psychology. This is not to say its not frustrating and enraging at times. Have you ever actually read the comments section of sites like infowars?! But it should not really be a big mystery.

 

[nitemagi]

I'd argue there are different factors at work. One is lack of accurate information, which allows for all kinds of biases to seep in. The other is active disinformation. Obviously they feed on each other, and in the instance described they appeared to go together. A true believer in the disinformation may filter out or ignore accurate information that gets introduced later. Accurate info early can then serve as a form of inoculation to bad info.

The most we can do is offer accurate info early, and teach people to think critically. Plus recognize the impact of narrative over data on humans, not in a dismissive way, but an appreciation of its role in our psyche.

 

[thoffen]

Maybe you helped educate someone outside the core, but in general stay the hell away. If Scientology has reason to target you, they will destroy you.

 

[leslieknope2]

Maybe you helped educate someone outside the core, but in general stay the hell away. If Scientology has reason to target you, they will destroy you.

Huh? Who have they destroyed?

 

[Champylobacter]

There is vast literature on personality correlates of conspiratorial beliefs

Any reading recommendations in particular?

 

[nancysinatra]

People also believe 9/11 was a conspiracy by Bush and that a pedophile ring was run from a DC pizza shop.

There is vast literature on personality correlates of conspiratorial beliefs (drives, needs, effect of power, existing cognitive bias/schema, etc.). Understanding why people believe things in the face of overwhelming objective evidence and that they essentially believe what they want to believe is whole subfield of both experimental and clinical psychology. Its useful to understand this literature if you intent to engage in the practice of clinical psychiatry/psychology. This is not to say its not frustrating and enraging at times. Have you ever actually read the comments section of sites like infowars?! But it should not really be a big mystery.

There's also literature in this area from the fields of political science and political psychology. I'm not sure the reasons why people adhere to conspiracy theories are all that well understood, although certainly you've pointed to some important ones. There are also theories such as motivated reasoning, but they don't conclusively explain very much. Plus, what to make of fake news in this day and age, and how that contributes to conspiracy theories?

Personally I don't really see scientology as a conspiracy theory. I see it as more of a cult. It's a cult that happens to hate psychiatry, and so, predictably, psychiatrists get all flustered about them. However I must say, in my personal experience, I have almost never run into the situation where a person who otherwise wanted and needed psychiatric treatment was deprived of it because someone else in their life was a scientologist and convinced them to forgo said treatment.

I have had an inpatient patient or two, involuntarily admitted, who claimed to BE a scientologist and tried to refuse treatment on those grounds. But most involuntary patients refuse treatment, and I have to hand it to the ones who proclaimed themselves to be scientologists - at least they tried to offer a reason for their refusal. I have never seen a judge uphold such a refusal, probably because the patients weren't actually all that coherent and couldn't make a convincing case.

 

[erg923]

There's also literature in this area from the fields of political science and political psychology. I'm not sure the reasons why people adhere to conspiracy theories are all that well understood, although certainly you've pointed to some important ones. There are also theories such as motivated reasoning, but they don't conclusively explain very much. Plus, what to make of fake news in this day and age, and how that contributes to conspiracy theories?

Personally I don't really see scientology as a conspiracy theory. I see it as more of a cult. It's a cult that happens to hate psychiatry, and so, predictably, psychiatrists get all flustered about them. However I must say, in my personal experience, I have almost never run into the situation where a person who otherwise wanted and needed psychiatric treatment was deprived of it because someone else in their life was a scientologist and convinced them to forgo said treatment.

I have had an inpatient patient or two, involuntarily admitted, who claimed to BE a scientologist and tried to refuse treatment on those grounds. But most involuntary patients refuse treatment, and I have to hand it to the ones who proclaimed themselves to be scientologists - at least they tried to offer a reason for their refusal. I have never seen a judge uphold such a refusal, probably because the patients weren't actually all that coherent and couldn't make a convincing case.

Well, if you are going to make this into a case of "It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is, I suppose you are correct.

We don't know how to prevent such personalities or belief systems from developing, but we do know that there are many common correlates and factors to such believes...and we can explain their development and rigidness with behavioral and personality science....such that we don't just view these things as common "individual differences" within the personality structure.

When we can better articulate how belief systems become distorted by various means, when can demystify the resultant thought patterns and behavior and work toward more adaptative (some might say "rational") ways of being and thinking.

Much more clinical and experimental psychology/psychopathology than clinical psychiatry. Hullian drive theory can explain alot if you can get past his mess of diagrams.

 

[FlowRate]

Huh? Who have they destroyed?

There are several documentaries and now a TV documentary that can answer your question. Literally google "Scientology documentary."

 

[leslieknope2]

There are several documentaries and now a TV documentary that can answer your question. Literally google "Scientology documentary."

Can you just post a list?

 

[WisNeuro]

Can you just post a list?

Michele Miscavige, for one.

 

[leslieknope2]

Michele Miscavige, for one.

She's not a psychiatrist/psychologist and was also involved in the church.

 

[WisNeuro]

She's not a psychiatrist/psychologist and was also involved in the church.

Doesn't matter if she is or not, really. The original comment about destroying someone reads as if they will destroy people they deem a threat, not that they specifically destroy mental health practitioners.

 

[leslieknope2]

Doesn't matter if she is or not, really. The original comment about destroying someone reads as if they will destroy people they deem a threat, not that they specifically destroy mental health practitioners.

It's easier to do that to someone who is actually involved in the church and lets herself be vulnerable. Who have they "destroyed" who had publicly denounced them. We shouldn't give in to these fears. That would make them stronger.

 

[WisNeuro]

It's easier to do that to someone who is actually involved in the church and lets herself be vulnerable. Who have they "destroyed" who had publicly denounced them. We shouldn't give in to these fears. That would make them stronger.

As thoffen said, plenty of accounts out there with a simple google search. L Ron has codofoed such policies as "attacking the attacker" and dead agenting". These aren't conspiracy theories, they are well known, codified policies. Interesting stuff, really. But I do agree, we shouldn't be cowed by any cult with political power, whether it be Scientology, Christianity, the Mormons, Islam, etc.

 

[leslieknope2]

As thoffen said, plenty of accounts out there with a simple google search. L Ron has codofoed such policies as "attacking the attacker" and dead agenting". These aren't conspiracy theories, they are well known, codified policies. Interesting stuff, really. But I do agree, we shouldn't be cowed by any cult with political power, whether it be Scientology, Christianity, the Mormons, Islam, etc.

I can't find it!

 

[FlowRate]

Can you just post a list?

No, I just can't.

 

[SeniorWrangler]

Here, let me Google that for you:
Scientology and psychiatry - Wikipedia

 

[Nasrudin]

I was walking down 3rd st promenade in Santa Monica and the scientology folks were out with their "psychiatry kills" display setup that was pretty impressive if it wasn't such BS. I got into what started as a polite discussion with one of the reps, and surprisingly she was interested in where I worked and in the field, even when the displays had pics of Nazis and whipped slaves, somehow correlating psychiatry with these horrible events in history.

I explained that ECT was actually quite beneficial, and she thought we insert probes into patients' brains. I could tell these people had no idea, and they tried to distance themselves from the church of scientology by saying they were "associated with." It was incredibly distressing to see people reading such garbage. Anyway I was wondering if anybody here had run into these people and what you felt about it. We've come a long way from questionable therapies of the past, and this doesn't help. From what I understand this appears to be Hubbard's continued assault on the profession, given he really needed the help.

It seems to me, he would have been likely diagnosed with a PD or something like that if he intersected with us, or perhaps did. idk. And so he weaponized ideological simplifications of our methods for his own purposes, as a personal defense, but also as a method of hanging out his shingle. I mean... it's tiring writing one ****ty science fiction book after another to fill an entire library.

In a sense, we're natural competitors. There is an entrepreneurial turf war between us, ayahuasqueros, shamans, street corner preachers/hustlers, religions, gurus, self-helpers, life coaches, wise old grandmothers, football coaches, charismatic heroes, cult figures... so yeah... it's basically game on.

I actually enjoy the competition. I prefer reading Thomas Szasz end of the spectrum competition more so than say the street signs of twits in the scientology game or The Black Israelites or whathaveyou. But, I appreciate their scrappiness, and the honor of their combat. As game recognizes game.