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Here is some info about Southern College of Optometry at futureoptometrist.com for those of you considering the school.
anSCOstudent
SCO Posted 12-5-2003 18:45
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After hearing about this forum I just had to come read what was said about SCO. To address the attrition rate here are the facts:
1. Before fall 2001 it had been about 2 1/2 years since a student had been dismissed for academics (I heard he had a drinking problem and failed out twice). In the fall quarter of 01' - 5 second year students were dismissed. It just so happens that there was a brand new professor that quarter for pharmacology. His credentials are B.S., M.S., PhD. (from oxford), M.D., O.D. Another student referred to him in an earlier forum when they said some professors here don't expect you to do anything except study here. He has told students here that during optometry school he slept 4 hours a night and basically studied the rest of the time. He also said he felt guilty about going on walks with his fianc? on Sundays for a half an hour. He has bragged about failing students because he is proud of the profession and doesn't think everyone is qualified to graduate. He has even bragged about stuff like having a goal to fail a certain number of people in the Neuro Eye class etc. He is responsible for most of people failing recently. The number of other students (not counting his first quarter) failing out because of him (that I know of) are 1 in winter 01-02', 1 in spring 02 and 7-8 3rd years (only 3 were kicked out) in spring 03'in Neuro Eye. The 4-5 others had to remediate and postpone going on externs because of this. They will go on an extern in the summer after the rest of their class has graduated. I think it is really unethical what has happened. In the past I heard that the administration would tell professors "you can't fail too many students or you're out of here".
The problem I have with all this is that when I interviewed they told me only a couple (2 or so) per class don't graduate and it's usually because their spouse gets a job elsewhere etc. The ambassadors tell you SCO is here to help you get through school, we are not here to weed you out. By the way, I heard from several sources that the school found out about this forum and told some amassers to post positive comments etc. here. In response to the ambassador who posted that those that write negative comments don't include their name the reason is probably that we don't want to get on the axis of evil's / administration's bad side because the committee's decision on who fails/fails out can be somewhat ambiguous. There have been a lot of bright students who have been kicked out and the whole morale at the school has suffered. Some of these students go back a year (or 2) to remediate, and others transfer to Nova etc., others change professions so it is a shame. I think the morale is gradually getting better and that the attrition rate here will decline somewhat as the administration continues to realize they are loosing money from tuition and the school reputation of attrition gets out there. The administration seems like they are too concerned with the schools reputation academic reputation/board scores etc., and too little concerned with students opinion here. The administration here seems stubborn and they are slow to make some needed changes the student want. Seniority seems to mean a lot in decision making. We are forced to buy all the required text books. Personally I wouldn't buy half of those books - some are still in the wrappers and they won't let me take them back for a refund. I doubt any student ambassador will be able to argue with anything that I have said because it's all fact. There are rumors you hear all the time here about grades/administration/who the instructors will be etc. I tried to stick with the facts.
On a positive note. I think the clinic experience is great here. I think you get a good education here too. Overall I would say SCO is at least one of the top 5 optometry schools. Most of the faculty is great. Mainly just a few that have attitudes (who do things like don't post your final grades until friday when the scantron report was done on monday - sometimes they don't post the final grades at all). There are 3 or so particular faculty members who many call the axis of evil. I like the weather here, the city of Memphis itself is pretty rundown but there are nice suburbs about 20 min. drive away.
My advice if you interview here is to randomly ask a couple student how they like it here etc. That isn't hard to do and you could learn a lot about SCO. You can reply to this topic and I will give you my opinion as I check back periodically.
rebeldoc81
That's what I hear.... Posted 12-5-2003 22:18
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Thanks for the post. I recently was admitted to SCO and UAB. I got the contract position for both, so I am headed to Birmingham. Mainly because of the stories like that I have heard coming from Memphis. As an SCO student, do you know what people say about UAB. I talked to many students who have nothing but positive comments. Thanks!
scostudent
SCO Posted 12-8-2003 07:57
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Hey anSCOstudent, that took a lot of balls to talk about the axis of evil
Here are some thoughts and opinions I would like to add:
1. I believe SCO is challenging, but I'm surviving. The guy with the B.S., M.S., PhD., M.D., O.D. has relaxed a lot, and he's giving students a fair chance to do well in his class.
I remember last year when he said half the students would fail his neuro exam. This year, he said he has never given so many A's in his pharm class. So don't be discouraged by him.
I think it has to do a lot with money. SCO has never lost so many students, and they need the tuition money to support the school. He is a good teacher, and expects a lot out of us so we can do well on boards. However, money talks and that will keep him in check.
2. Overall, the staff is supportive and prepared. When I take boards, I'm very confident that I will pass. Actually, our passage rate for part 1 is 85-95% overall year after year. Compare that to the national average which is about 67.69% this year - that's pretty sad.
http://www.optometry.org/general/stats/BS0803stats.pdf
Just goes to show, you may have a great experience at one school, but it won't mean jack if you can't pass the boards!
3. I do hate the fact we have to buy every book from the bookstore. We don't even get the opportunity to sell it back or buy used books.
4. Like any big city, there's the ghetto and there is the suburb. If you are not used to dorm style living, I would stay on Mud Island.
Mud Island is a little pricey because the apartments are new and it is right by the river (beautiful drive to and from school). Plus, it's only 10 minutes from the school. The two apartments I consider ghetto are the Cabanas and Edgewater.
5. I like the fact we get 2 summers off. Actually, the summer after first year is a true vacation. The summer off after second year, we study for boards.
6. I'm not an ambassador and I think it's pretty lame that the administration is telling them to post messages in this forum to make SCO look better. That's how I found out about this place. One of the ambassadors told me about it.
7. I decided to go to SCO because I wanted to be an excellent clinician.
SCO starts you early with practicals in the first year and school screenings, video taping, observations, and more practicals in the second year. Plus, Memphis is a place where you will see tons of pathology. I guess people are willing to wait until their eyeballs are dangling from their cheeks
There are other schools that have distinguished themselves by how many research dollars they get and I wasn't into that. So far, I'm satisfied with my decision.
[ This message was edited by: scostudent on: 12-8-2003 07:48 ]
sgordon
Okay, enough about the ambassadors... Posted 12-10-2003 18:35
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
anSCOstudent
SCO Posted 12-5-2003 18:45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After hearing about this forum I just had to come read what was said about SCO. To address the attrition rate here are the facts:
1. Before fall 2001 it had been about 2 1/2 years since a student had been dismissed for academics (I heard he had a drinking problem and failed out twice). In the fall quarter of 01' - 5 second year students were dismissed. It just so happens that there was a brand new professor that quarter for pharmacology. His credentials are B.S., M.S., PhD. (from oxford), M.D., O.D. Another student referred to him in an earlier forum when they said some professors here don't expect you to do anything except study here. He has told students here that during optometry school he slept 4 hours a night and basically studied the rest of the time. He also said he felt guilty about going on walks with his fianc? on Sundays for a half an hour. He has bragged about failing students because he is proud of the profession and doesn't think everyone is qualified to graduate. He has even bragged about stuff like having a goal to fail a certain number of people in the Neuro Eye class etc. He is responsible for most of people failing recently. The number of other students (not counting his first quarter) failing out because of him (that I know of) are 1 in winter 01-02', 1 in spring 02 and 7-8 3rd years (only 3 were kicked out) in spring 03'in Neuro Eye. The 4-5 others had to remediate and postpone going on externs because of this. They will go on an extern in the summer after the rest of their class has graduated. I think it is really unethical what has happened. In the past I heard that the administration would tell professors "you can't fail too many students or you're out of here".
The problem I have with all this is that when I interviewed they told me only a couple (2 or so) per class don't graduate and it's usually because their spouse gets a job elsewhere etc. The ambassadors tell you SCO is here to help you get through school, we are not here to weed you out. By the way, I heard from several sources that the school found out about this forum and told some amassers to post positive comments etc. here. In response to the ambassador who posted that those that write negative comments don't include their name the reason is probably that we don't want to get on the axis of evil's / administration's bad side because the committee's decision on who fails/fails out can be somewhat ambiguous. There have been a lot of bright students who have been kicked out and the whole morale at the school has suffered. Some of these students go back a year (or 2) to remediate, and others transfer to Nova etc., others change professions so it is a shame. I think the morale is gradually getting better and that the attrition rate here will decline somewhat as the administration continues to realize they are loosing money from tuition and the school reputation of attrition gets out there. The administration seems like they are too concerned with the schools reputation academic reputation/board scores etc., and too little concerned with students opinion here. The administration here seems stubborn and they are slow to make some needed changes the student want. Seniority seems to mean a lot in decision making. We are forced to buy all the required text books. Personally I wouldn't buy half of those books - some are still in the wrappers and they won't let me take them back for a refund. I doubt any student ambassador will be able to argue with anything that I have said because it's all fact. There are rumors you hear all the time here about grades/administration/who the instructors will be etc. I tried to stick with the facts.
On a positive note. I think the clinic experience is great here. I think you get a good education here too. Overall I would say SCO is at least one of the top 5 optometry schools. Most of the faculty is great. Mainly just a few that have attitudes (who do things like don't post your final grades until friday when the scantron report was done on monday - sometimes they don't post the final grades at all). There are 3 or so particular faculty members who many call the axis of evil. I like the weather here, the city of Memphis itself is pretty rundown but there are nice suburbs about 20 min. drive away.
My advice if you interview here is to randomly ask a couple student how they like it here etc. That isn't hard to do and you could learn a lot about SCO. You can reply to this topic and I will give you my opinion as I check back periodically.
rebeldoc81
That's what I hear.... Posted 12-5-2003 22:18
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the post. I recently was admitted to SCO and UAB. I got the contract position for both, so I am headed to Birmingham. Mainly because of the stories like that I have heard coming from Memphis. As an SCO student, do you know what people say about UAB. I talked to many students who have nothing but positive comments. Thanks!
scostudent
SCO Posted 12-8-2003 07:57
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey anSCOstudent, that took a lot of balls to talk about the axis of evil
Here are some thoughts and opinions I would like to add:
1. I believe SCO is challenging, but I'm surviving. The guy with the B.S., M.S., PhD., M.D., O.D. has relaxed a lot, and he's giving students a fair chance to do well in his class.
I remember last year when he said half the students would fail his neuro exam. This year, he said he has never given so many A's in his pharm class. So don't be discouraged by him.
I think it has to do a lot with money. SCO has never lost so many students, and they need the tuition money to support the school. He is a good teacher, and expects a lot out of us so we can do well on boards. However, money talks and that will keep him in check.
2. Overall, the staff is supportive and prepared. When I take boards, I'm very confident that I will pass. Actually, our passage rate for part 1 is 85-95% overall year after year. Compare that to the national average which is about 67.69% this year - that's pretty sad.
http://www.optometry.org/general/stats/BS0803stats.pdf
Just goes to show, you may have a great experience at one school, but it won't mean jack if you can't pass the boards!
3. I do hate the fact we have to buy every book from the bookstore. We don't even get the opportunity to sell it back or buy used books.
4. Like any big city, there's the ghetto and there is the suburb. If you are not used to dorm style living, I would stay on Mud Island.
Mud Island is a little pricey because the apartments are new and it is right by the river (beautiful drive to and from school). Plus, it's only 10 minutes from the school. The two apartments I consider ghetto are the Cabanas and Edgewater.
5. I like the fact we get 2 summers off. Actually, the summer after first year is a true vacation. The summer off after second year, we study for boards.
6. I'm not an ambassador and I think it's pretty lame that the administration is telling them to post messages in this forum to make SCO look better. That's how I found out about this place. One of the ambassadors told me about it.
7. I decided to go to SCO because I wanted to be an excellent clinician.
SCO starts you early with practicals in the first year and school screenings, video taping, observations, and more practicals in the second year. Plus, Memphis is a place where you will see tons of pathology. I guess people are willing to wait until their eyeballs are dangling from their cheeks
There are other schools that have distinguished themselves by how many research dollars they get and I wasn't into that. So far, I'm satisfied with my decision.
[ This message was edited by: scostudent on: 12-8-2003 07:48 ]
sgordon
Okay, enough about the ambassadors... Posted 12-10-2003 18:35
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
