Scope Creep

[edieb]

It says the master's level will administer AND interpret psychological tests


Minimum Qualifications:
Master's Degree in Psychology, Counseling or Social Work or Bachelor's Degree in Social Work and New Mexico Licensure as LBSW, LMSW, LISW, LPCC, LMHC, LMFT or LPAT. A Provisional LBSW, Provisional LMSW, Provisional LISW, Temporary LPCC, Temporary LMHC, Temporary LMFT or Temporary LPAT will also meet minimum qualifications. Failure to obtain full licensure or loss of licensure will disqualify the person from meeting the minimum requirements. For positions providing clinical supervision, a Master's Degree in Psychology, Counseling, or Social Work, two (2) years of experience and full licensure as an LISW, LPCC,or LMFT is required.

Purpose of Position:
This position completes structured clinical interviews along with Mental Status Exams for adjudicated youth 13 to 21 years old in a secure rehabilitative juvenile facility. Position will administer, score and interpret evidenced based psychological assessments, screenings and inventories for juveniles. Position will provide diagnostic psychological evaluation reports for adjudicated juvenile youth.



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Job Title: Diagnostician (CYFD #33501)
Closing Date/Time: Sat. 08/31/13 11:59 PM Mountain Time
Salary: $16.53 - $29.39 Hourly
$34,382.40 - $61,131.20 Annually

Job Type: Permanent Position
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Department: Children, Youth & Families Dpt


Print Job Information | Apply


Job Description Benefits Supplemental Questions

IMPORTANT NOTICE:
Text resumes and attached resumes will no longer be reviewed or considered. You are required to include your work experience in the Work Experience Section (click on link for an example) of your NEOGOV application only. If you have previously included work history on a resume (attached or copy and pasted) you must transfer your work history into the Work Experience Section prior to applying. Purpose of Position:
This position completes structured clinical interviews along with Mental Status Exams for adjudicated youth 13 to 21 years old in a secure rehabilitative juvenile facility. Position will administer, score and interpret evidenced based psychological assessments, screenings and inventories for juveniles. Position will provide diagnostic psychological evaluation reports for adjudicated juvenile youth.

THIS JOB POSTING MAY BE USED TO FILL MULTIPLE VACANCIES.
This position is a Pay Band 70.

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[Therapist4Chnge]

Ugh. Maybe everyone should get a shot at psych assessment. Maybe we can open it up to anyone who works at a facility. I know I know...we should limit it to people who have taken a Psych 101 course in undergrad (or watched at least a season worth of FRAISER or IN TREATMENT.)

 

[PHD12]

Ugh. Maybe everyone should get a shot at psych assessment. Maybe we can open it up to anyone who works at a facility. I know I know...we should limit it to people who have taken a Psych 101 course in undergrad (or watched at least a season worth of FRAISER or IN TREATMENT.)

Might as well. Ugh! "Counseling" is literally open to everyone these days---no college degree needed. Addiction counselors and life coaches only need a high school diploma.

 

[PHD12]

It says the master's level will administer AND interpret psychological tests

Even more abhorrent, it actually says BA degree in social work!!! Master's level is only required if you are providing clinical supervision (because at that point you are obviously an expert in psych testing!).

 

[MBellows]

I hope by "evidence based psychological assessments" they mean the BDI.

 

[MBellows]

Counseling is literally open to everyone these days---no college degree needed. Addiction counselors and life coaches only need a high school diploma.

Where do you live? Here addiction counseling (LCDC licensure) is the lowest possible license and requires a specific set of courses with a practicum, internship, and CEUs. They're also highly limited in scope to the treatment of chemical dependency.

Counseling, like virtually everywhere else, requires a master's degree in counseling or a related field (psychology or behavioral sciences if, but only if they include a specific set of coursework). Its practicum and supervision typically congruent with the LCSW.

Finally, please don't conflate "life coaches" with counselors. Counseling is a profession with licensure and is still in the process of professional development by setting up a set academic standard for counseling practice and different counseling specialties (something only SW has done on a large scale in mental health), putting a larger focus on education by switching from the 48 hour minimum to a 60 hour minimum, and consolidating various accrediting bodies into one.

I'm really hoping that at 6:45 I'm not coming off as angry. I'll probably come back and look at this again to make sure, but I'd like to let you know that I agree with a lot of the anger on your side. Psychologists have specific training to aid in the assessment of psychological functioning that other fields (MD, SW, LPC) just don't have. Most counselors have one class on testing assessment, but I'd say that at most qualifies us to understand basic symptom screenings and to (with additional training) act as psychometricians. The bottom line there is that the people that wrote that job posting probably don't know what the licensing laws are and don't know that any other licensed professional whose job title includes "psychological" anything is likely in violation of state law unless they're being supervised by a licensed psychologist. Taking a myopic shot at another profession for not having a perfect gatekeeping strategy yet is just insulting to a group of people that probably agrees with you for the most part.

 

[PHD12]

Where do you live? Here addiction counseling (LCDC licensure) is the lowest possible license and requires a specific set of courses with a practicum, internship, and CEUs. They're also highly limited in scope to the treatment of chemical dependency.

Counseling, like virtually everywhere else, requires a master's degree in counseling or a related field (psychology or behavioral sciences if, but only if they include a specific set of coursework). Its practicum and supervision typically congruent with the LCSW.

Finally, please don't conflate "life coaches" with counselors. Counseling is a profession with licensure and is still in the process of professional development by setting up a set academic standard for counseling practice and different counseling specialties (something only SW has done on a large scale in mental health), putting a larger focus on education by switching from the 48 hour minimum to a 60 hour minimum, and consolidating various accrediting bodies into one.

I'm really hoping that at 6:45 I'm not coming off as angry. I'll probably come back and look at this again to make sure, but I'd like to let you know that I agree with a lot of the anger on your side. Psychologists have specific training to aid in the assessment of psychological functioning that other fields (MD, SW, LPC) just don't have. Most counselors have one class on testing assessment, but I'd say that at most qualifies us to understand basic symptom screenings and to (with additional training) act as psychometricians. The bottom line there is that the people that wrote that job posting probably don't know what the licensing laws are and don't know that any other licensed professional whose job title includes "psychological" anything is likely in violation of state law unless they're being supervised by a licensed psychologist. Taking a myopic shot at another profession for not having a perfect gatekeeping strategy yet is just insulting to a group of people that probably agrees with you for the most part.

You misunderstood my post. I meant to put quotations on counseling. I was not saying anything negative about MA level counselors. I was making the point that there isn't good regulation on counseling itself and people without MA degrees are hired as "counselors." I know that life coaching is not counseling, but there is clearly not enough regulation there and lot's of false advertising. Also, substance abuse counselors are not required to have a master's degree. I've worked with many who did not have a graduate degree and some did. They do need to take coursework, but it is not required to be on a graduate level at all.

Have you researched the regulations for addiction counselors? The LCDC you can get with an associates degree only plus practicum in many states (obviously there is a little bit of variability) You don't think this is a pretty low bar considering that all other counselors are required to have a master's degree plus 3,000 hours of experience and doctoral level folks have 8 years of training, including those 3,000 hours for licensure? Substance abuse treatment is very complex and the patients have multiple medical and psychiatric co-morbidities. Someone with an AA degree is not going to have any training in the DSM, evidence-based treatment models for SA (motivational interviewing), and will not have advanced level training in counseling overall (addiction counselors see individual patients for SA counseling and run groups on their own). So no, I don't think most people with an AA degree in psychology are going to be able to effectively work with some of the most complicated and stressful patient populations. I've seen it happen before in treatment settings and it was a train wreck (e.g., yelling at patients, telling them what to do in a forceful way without any understanding for collaboration, no training in reflective listening , complete lack of experience with diagnoses, unethical behavior in groups etc). They had the same exact job duties as an LCSW and psychologist in a substance abuse treatment program. I'm surprised you don't think this is a very low bar.

Here is the requirement for Ohio:

LCDC II: Licensed Chemical Dependency Counselor II

An Associate's degree in a behavioral science or nursing OR a Bachelor's degree in any field.
One year (2,000 hours) of chemical dependency counseling related compensated work or supervised internship experience.
180 hours of chemical dependency education in nine specific content areas.
220 practical experience hours in the twelve core functions. This may be completed as part of your work experience requirements.
Successful completion of the ADC examination or completion of Examination Waiver Form.

 

[MBellows]

Have you researched the regulations for addiction counselors?

I said that they had to have specific coursework. I don't think I said that it had to be graduate coursework. I do agree that it's probably a little on the low side, but handling co-morbidity would actually be outside of the LCDC scope (at least in my state).

Thank you for clarifying the rest though.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

inb4 massive flame war and/or why not get a msw?

 

[paramour]

Ugh. Maybe everyone should get a shot at psych assessment. Maybe we can open it up to anyone who works at a facility. I know I know...we should limit it to people who have taken a Psych 101 course in undergrad (or watched at least a season worth of FRAISER or IN TREATMENT.)

Er, after my recent relocation, I applied for a position with duties that included administering/interpreting/writing psych tests/reports. The requirements "preferred" a BA in a psych or social sciences related field with "familiarity" or exposure to major psych tests. I was flabbergasted but thought I'd check it out further to see what the heck they were really doing.

Alas, I didn't even get an interview.

I've run into other agencies here where there are LMFTs and LCSWs administering and interpreting psych testing with the rationale that they have a psychologist for consultation "if they have any questions" and "so they can do the billing."

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

Er, after my recent relocation, I applied for a position with duties that included administering/interpreting/writing psych tests/reports. The requirements "preferred" a BA in a psych or social sciences related field with "familiarity" or exposure to major psych tests. I was flabbergasted but thought I'd check it out further to see what the heck they were really doing.

Alas, I didn't even get an interview.

I've run into other agencies here where there are LMFTs and LCSWs administering and interpreting psych testing with the rationale that they have a psychologist for consultation "if they have any questions" and "so they can do the billing."

That's the way our local mental health facility operates as well. They actually don't have any psychologists on staff. Just social workers, counselors, and two psychiatrists.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I've run into other agencies here where there are LMFTs and LCSWs administering and interpreting psych testing with the rationale that they have a psychologist for consultation "if they have any questions" and "so they can do the billing."

That makes my blood boil, ugh. If we (as licensed psychologists) are required to supervise post-doctoral fellows, how the heck do ppl w a fraction (if any) of the training get a free pass like that? If they were a local group I would be reporting them to the appropriate licensing boards, especially any psychologist who actively participates in such unethical practice.

 

[PHD12]

That's the way our local mental health facility operates as well. They actually don't have any psychologists on staff. Just social workers, counselors, and two psychiatrists.

Pretty common of local mental health facilities that operate in my state as well (excluding the VA). This is why I hesitate to recommend clinical psychology to people who want to exclusively do clinical work and be therapists. Also, many inpatient units don't seem to employ even one psychologist anymore. Testing is either not done at all or completed by social workers/nurses.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

Pretty common of local mental health facilities that operate in my state as well (excluding the VA). This is why I hesitate to recommend clinical psychology to people who want to exclusively do clinical work and be therapists. Also, many inpatient units don't seem to employ even one psychologist anymore. Testing is either not done at all or completed by social workers/nurses.

I completely agree. In my area its mostly nurses that do it.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

You could try forwarding that job posting to the state psychology board and/or psych association to see what their thoughts are. One would think the state psych association would be pretty robust in NM given that they were able to get RxP passed, but perhaps they're now more focused on that than protecting other areas of practice from scope creep?

 

[edieb]

That makes my blood boil, ugh. If we (as licensed psychologists) are required to supervise post-doctoral fellows, how the heck do ppl w a fraction (if any) of the training get a free pass like that? If they were a local group I would be reporting them to the appropriate licensing boards, especially any psychologist who actively participates in such unethical practice.

Again, i hope this serves as a warning to anybody contemplating this field

 

[Pragma]

Er, after my recent relocation, I applied for a position with duties that included administering/interpreting/writing psych tests/reports. The requirements "preferred" a BA in a psych or social sciences related field with "familiarity" or exposure to major psych tests. I was flabbergasted but thought I'd check it out further to see what the heck they were really doing.

Alas, I didn't even get an interview.

I've run into other agencies here where there are LMFTs and LCSWs administering and interpreting psych testing with the rationale that they have a psychologist for consultation "if they have any questions" and "so they can do the billing."

In my opinion, not reporting this to the the state licensing board would be unethical.

 

[Sanman]

It is times like this that I actually consider working for an insurance company so that I can hand down denials on people like this that practice unethically. Don't get me wrong, I see it all around as well. The director of one of the units I work on is an RN with no previous psych experience monitoring mostly schizophrenics and she has a habit of trying to tell the psychologists and psychiatrists how to do their jobs (all of whom are contractors). You can guess how well that goes.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

It is times like this that I actually consider working for an insurance company so that I can hand down denials on people like this that practice unethically. Don't get me wrong, I see it all around as well. The director of one of the units I work on is an RN with no previous psych experience monitoring mostly schizophrenics and she has a habit of trying to tell the psychologists and psychiatrists how to do their jobs (all of whom are contractors). You can guess how well that goes.

I've known a few nurses like that. One that was over the ER specifically. A very, very volatile personality.

 

[Qwerk]

I've run into other agencies here where there are LMFTs and LCSWs administering and interpreting psych testing with the rationale that they have a psychologist for consultation "if they have any questions" and "so they can do the billing."

That is unbelievable. I mean, is there any grad program that trains master's-level social workers or counselors in psych testing, even in a perfunctory way? I have literally zero experience. I've learned about psych testing, sure, and I generally know what I'm looking at when I see test results. But If I had to do testing myself, it would probably end up like some wacky Rob Schneider movie where a guy is accidentally committed to an institution and has to break out using...like, time travel, or...animal costumes or something.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

That is unbelievable. I mean, is there any grad program that trains master's-level social workers or counselors in psych testing, even in a perfunctory way?

Sadly a lack of training and mentoring are not sufficient enough justification for some to avoid playing psychologist. Psychologists need to be vigilant about scope of practice issues because they can have lasting negative effects on the patients being improperly treated/evaluated.