scrub skirts in the OR

[ashter128]

I affiliate myself with a religion/religous beliefs that 'requires' a female to wear a skirt. I know that hospitals allow scrub skirts, I have several female friends in various medical positions and hospitals who wear them. However, I don't have any female surgeon friends who are of the same religous affiliation as I am, and I was wondering if scrub skirts were allowed in operating rooms, or if there are hospital policies requiring scrub pants.

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[thedoctor8706]

Just out of curiosity, what religion is this that you speak of?

 

[Caristra]

I deal with these issues myself. I started an organization to help religious women attain careers in the health fields. PM me if you want the information

I know of several hospitals that do allow scrub skirts/gowns in the OR. Some have never had to deal with the issue, but are perfectly willing to help find something that works for you.

 

[medstudent87]

i'm sure your religion, whatever it may be, would allow an exception to the dress code when it comes to helping save someone's life in the OR

 

[rph3664]

Just out of curiosity, what religion is this that you speak of?

I've never heard of an employer that prohibited women from wearing skirts or dresses. She should probably contact that hospital and ask.

I'm guessing Pentecostal Christian? I did see a female McDonald's employee wearing a hijab a couple weeks ago.

 

[Antibodies]

I've never heard of an employer that prohibited women from wearing skirts or dresses. She should probably contact that hospital and ask.

I'm guessing Pentecostal Christian? I did see a female McDonald's employee wearing a hijab a couple weeks ago.

The goal is to not have much exposed skin in the OR.

 

[MossPoh]

The goal is to not have much exposed skin in the OR.

I'm sure it isn't a miniskirt, although that'd be an interesting fashion statement.

 

[seelee]

OP, I understand your religious concerns. Obviously, policy is going to vary depending on the hospital and you should contact yours. The issue is not dress code however, the issue is maintaining a safe and sterile environment. I am not an expert (yet) but it is possible that a skirt may compromise either safety or sterility and, if so, should be prohibited in the OR. Remember that this is not a religious discrimination issue, it is a safety issue. Certain jobs require special attire and skirts are just not appropriate.

The question to ask yourself now is what are you going to do if the hospital says "no skirts in the OR"? I suggest discussing it with your religious leader. I think it is perfectly reasonable, in extenuating circumstances, to be flexible in a religious dresscode. However, that decision is yours to make.

Good luck.

 

[marele86]

I've seen women wearing skirt scrubs over scrub pants.. It seems to me that if scrub pants don't compromise sterility, there's no reason adding an additional layer on top should matter. I'd talk to a religious leader about whether this would be acceptable.

 

[BigRedBeta]

I don't think this would be a problem because obviously this is going to be a full-length, to the ankles skirt. And you're really not asking for any sort of special treatment.

Since everything below the level of the table/field is considered unsterile, even when you've just put on a new, sterilized, out-of-the-package gown on anyways, I REALLY can't imagine anyone is going to give you a hard time about scrub technique and breaking field. There might be slight concern that, depending on the cut of the skirt (the one set of full length scrub skirts I've seen was on an ER nurse and there was a slit in the hemline in the back about 4-6 inches in length to provide moment, which did expose her heels/achilles) and if you were wearing socks or not that you might be exposing yourself to body fluids. But considering how many surgeons still wear the Crocs with the holes in the top, I think this shouldn't be too big an issue.

 

[Caristra]

i'm sure your religion, whatever it may be, would allow an exception to the dress code when it comes to helping save someone's life in the OR

While this is often true, it does not mean that alternatives should not be investigated. If she can wear a sterile scrub skirt over her scrub pants to fulfill her religions demands then she should be allowed to do so.

Religions often provide exceptions to the rule when lives are being saved but these exceptions only hold true when there is NO ALTERNATIVE. By being responsible and discussing the issues of sterility in advance with the director of the OR she will be working in, the OP can avoid placing herself in an awkward situation.

It's a perfectly legitimate question.

I second the suggestion that you should consult with your religious/spiritual leader about this issue.

 

[islandCrazy]

I'm guessing Pentecostal Christian?.

Nope, well at least not my branch. Older women such as my Grandma wear skirts but in the winter months even they wear pants.

Back on topic: Maybe you could present the option of wearing scrub pants underneath a scrub skirt?

 

[medstudent87]

While this is often true, it does not mean that alternatives should not be investigated. If she can wear a sterile scrub skirt over her scrub pants to fulfill her religions demands then she should be allowed to do so.

Religions often provide exceptions to the rule when lives are being saved but these exceptions only hold true when there is NO ALTERNATIVE. By being responsible and discussing the issues of sterility in advance with the director of the OR she will be working in, the OP can avoid placing herself in an awkward situation.

It's a perfectly legitimate question and as you are not a religious you really are not qualified to tell her what her religion does and does not allow.

I second the suggestion that you should consult with your religious/spiritual leader about this issue.

well in MPO, there is no room for religion in the OR. religion and being a physician don't mix.

 

[DrMom]

I affiliate myself with a religion/religous beliefs that 'requires' a female to wear a skirt. I know that hospitals allow scrub skirts, I have several female friends in various medical positions and hospitals who wear them. However, I don't have any female surgeon friends who are of the same religous affiliation as I am, and I was wondering if scrub skirts were allowed in operating rooms, or if there are hospital policies requiring scrub pants.

Hospitals generally require their own hospital scrubs be worn in the OR. I don't know how many hospitals would have approved scrub skirts available as I have never seen any in my limited experience of around 10 hospitals.

One of my best friends from med school is in a religious group that sounds similar to yours (women wear skirts, no makeup, long hair) and is finishing up a surgery residency. She wears scrub pants in the OR & rounding/on call nights, but all of the rest of the time she wears skirts.

 

[odieoh]

well in MPO, there is no room for religion in the OR. religion and being a physician don't mix.

I take it the "P" is for Prickish?

 

[psipsina]

Hospitals generally require their own hospital scrubs be worn in the OR. I don't know how many hospitals would have approved scrub skirts available as I have never seen any in my limited experience of around 10 hospitals.

One of my best friends from med school is in a religious group that sounds similar to yours (women wear skirts, no makeup, long hair) and is finishing up a surgery residency. She wears scrub pants in the OR & rounding/on call nights, but all of the rest of the time she wears skirts.

This is the major issue I would see with this situation. As an attending you might be able to get someone to order some for you but as a medstud you pretty much have to deal with what you're given. Sterility is a major patient safety issue and I can't see many hospitals allowing an outside garment into the OR. A classmate of mine tried to wear a turtleneck under her scrub top (which is under a paper sterile gown) and was turned away by the scrub tech even though nothing should ever touch the neck and then the patient.

Part of being a physician is that you often have to put your patient ahead of yourself. Sometimes even your safety (operating on a HCV positive patient) but many times your own personal needs and beliefs. If a patients safety is at risk that trumps our religious practices.

 

[chooka]

well in MPO, there is no room for religion in the OR. religion and being a physician don't mix.

well in MHO, you're a jackass.

 

[seelee]

well in MPO, there is no room for religion in the OR. religion and being a physician don't mix.

I'm in my second year right now. I finished first year with only passes in all my courses (no honors) and I failed neuroscience, which I remediated over the summer. I was hoping that this year would go better, but so far I'm doing incredibly terribly. I'm failing pharmacology and after today's path exam, I think [I]I might be failing that as well. I just can't do it.[/I] I sit down for hours and hours, days and days, trying to memorize the insane amount of material like everyone else, yet it seems to take me MUCH longer and I always forget everything come test day[/I]. I never had great work-ethic when it came to studying and didn't know what I was getting myself into with med school. Memorization is obviously not my thing

Look at it this way, you may suck balls at actually doing medicine, but at least you have the contemptuous-elitist-superiority complex down pat.

High five!

 

[jdh71]

Look at it this way, you may suck balls at actually doing medicine, but at least you have the contemptuous-elitist-superiority complex down pat.

High five!

owned

 

[WashMe]

well in MPO, there is no room for religion in the OR. religion and being a physician don't mix.

I'm just waiting for medstudent87 to turn this thread into yet another discussion about homosexuality, whether he should stick with his boyfriend, and how he feels like he should quit medical school. Religion and being a physician don't mix? How about this: self-doubt, pessimism, having no spine, and being a physician don't mix.

 

[sassilysweet]

Maybe as an alternative, try wearing "normal fitting" scrub pants underneath and a much larger size on top, giving a baggy-ness that resembles a skirt?

I know my Muslim lab partner wears extremely wide-leg pants in anat lab but otherwise wears a robe or dress at all other times. It's just part of her modesty values along with a head scarf. Apparently larger hospitals and ORs are carrying sterile alternatives for these individuals. It can't hurt to ask the administration before you start clinicals there.

 

[medstudent87]

I'm just waiting for medstudent87 to turn this thread into yet another discussion about homosexuality, whether he should stick with his boyfriend, and how he feels like he should quit medical school. Religion and being a physician don't mix? How about this: self-doubt, pessimism, having no spine, and being a physician don't mix.

Guess that's my cue! So, you guys, do you think I should break up with my gay boyfriend or what? haha

OK OK, I apologize for my insensitive douchey post about religion and being a physician not mixing. I'll admit, I had a lot of sand in my mangina that day...and I was channeling my avatar's personality (Carl Paladino, my hero)

 

[WashMe]

Guess that's my cue! So, you guys, do you think I should break up with my gay boyfriend or what? haha

OK OK, I apologize for my insensitive douchey post about religion and being a physician not mixing. I'll admit, I had a lot of sand in my mangina that day...and I was channeling my avatar's personality (Carl Paladino, my hero)

Don't sweat it, we all make those posts on occasion. Sometimes stress gets the best of us.

 

[Tizoc]

...and I was channeling my avatar's personality (Carl Paladino, my hero)

Um, seriously? (in light of what he's said lately...) 😕

 

[medstudent87]

Um, seriously? (in light of what he's said lately...) 😕

well, the "my hero" part was sarcasm...but i'm prolly still gonna vote for him cause i ain't a fan of cuomo. but cuomo's gonna win anyway, so no matter

 

[alphaholic06]

well, the "my hero" part was sarcasm...but i'm prolly still gonna vote for him cause i ain't a fan of cuomo. but cuomo's gonna win anyway, so no matter

Don't vote for Paladino. You should vote for this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4o-TeMHys0

 

[LifetimeDoc]

I'm just waiting for medstudent87 to turn this thread into yet another discussion about homosexuality, whether he should stick with his boyfriend, and how he feels like he should quit medical school. Religion and being a physician don't mix? How about this: self-doubt, pessimism, having no spine, and being a physician don't mix.

Self Doubt: well having a know-it all, completely confident medical student is dangerous in the real-world. We as med students don't know even half of what we need to know to be real physicians. A good dose of healthy humility is usually better than outright arrogance.

Pessimism: whatever gets you to where you need to be. It can be detrimental to your performance in most circumstances.

Having no spine: well that's a delicate balance, you need to be appropriate aggressive without being pushy or stepping outside of your standing.

What does religion or sexual orientation have to do with being able to be a physician? I sense some other agenda in that and other statements from others. Nuff said.

 

[WashMe]

Self Doubt: well having a know-it all, completely confident medical student is dangerous in the real-world. We as med students don't know even half of what we need to know to be real physicians. A good dose of healthy humility is usually better than outright arrogance.

Pessimism: whatever gets you to where you need to be. It can be detrimental to your performance in most circumstances.

Having no spine: well that's a delicate balance, you need to be appropriate aggressive without being pushy or stepping outside of your standing.

What does religion or sexual orientation have to do with being able to be a physician? I sense some other agenda in that and other statements from others. Nuff said.

RE: Self Doubt -- One should certainly not go through the entire medical education system without doubting the integrity and completeness of his or her knowledge. However, I was saying that it is not healthy or appropriate for one to experience panicking levels of doubt about whether one will even be able to make it through school at this point.

RE: Pessimism -- It sounds like we're in agreement. Even if pessimism gets you through school, it may shine through to your patients and thus be detrimental to the doctor-patient relationship.

RE: Having No Spine -- I think a person needs to have confidence, even if that means stepping outside of one's comfort zone to address a superior in a professional manner on behalf of a patient's best interest. It takes guts to put yourself on the line, but you may save a patient a world of hurt.

RE: Religion and Sexual Orientation -- I agree that they are irrelevant, as long as they don't become obvious and perhaps disconcerting to the patient. If it doesn't affect the quality of care, then by all means do whatever you want. There is, however, little reason for decent threads to be hijacked for the sake of discussing religion and sexuality.

 

[Caristra]

To get back to the topic of the scrub skirt - If you are in an area where there are physicians of many religions practicing at the hospital - NY/NJ come to mind, then the hospital may in fact have scrub skirts or be willing to order them. However, you need to go and investigate this with the head of the OR and/or the people who handle scrub orders. The earlier you alert them to your needs the more likely they are to accommodate you.

 

[Kella_lee]

I deal with these issues myself. I started an organization to help religious women attain careers in the health fields. PM me if you want the information

I know of several hospitals that do allow scrub skirts/gowns in the OR. Some have never had to deal with the issue, but are perfectly willing to help find something that works for you.

I am interested in any information you can give to a pentecostal girl who is getting flack for wearing a skirt in clinicals to become a surg tech.

 

[ricksimmonsrafowens]

I've seen frum women (particularly dentists) wear long skirts made out of the same material as our hospital issued scrubs. They wear scrub pant bottoms with the skirt over the top. It should not be an issue in the OR, since you will gown over your scrubs anyway.

 

[mehc012]

I'm sorry, but this is the stupidest thing to have to worry about. There's zero evidence that wearing a skirt instead of pants, underneath your sterile gown, in any way increases the risk of patient contamination. I love the OR, but man have we got our heads jammed pretty far up our backsides about utter conformity and BS 'sterility' standards.

How sterile are those 'hospital laundered' scrubs 20min into rounds? And what, are we afraid that leg hairs are going to uproot, jump down to the floor, and then jetpack up to the operating field if not constrained by the tight confines of baggy cotton pants? It's honestly ludicrous. And don't get me started on the stupid 'no cloth hats' rules. 🙄

 

[Psai]

I for one think that more skirts in the OR would be a great thing

 

[precisiongraphic]

I am interested in any information you can give to a pentecostal girl who is getting flack for wearing a skirt in clinicals to become a surg tech.

Kella lee - caristra hasn't been seen here in a year although she may get a notification of a follow-up to this thread. Here's an EEOC page that might help you get approval.

 

[sella.turcica]

owned

pwned is the correct spelling

 

[deleted480308]

well in MPO, there is no room for religion in the OR. religion and being a physician don't mix.

That’s incorrect

 

[jdh71]

pwned is the correct spelling

Do the kids still use pwned?

 

[jdh71]

That’s incorrect

It’s an almost decade old post sb.

 

[sella.turcica]

Do the kids still use pwned?

Even some attendings use pwned when med students can't answer pimp questions.

 

[jdh71]

Even some attendings use pwned when med students can't answer pimp questions.

Yeah. That makes sense. Attending are older. Are the kids actually using it? It’s an old CS reference.

 

[sella.turcica]

Yeah. That makes sense. Attending are older. Are the kids actually using it? It’s an old CS reference.

Dude it's 2019. The kids who played CS back then are attendings now.

 

[NicMouse64]

Yeah. That makes sense. Attending are older. Are the kids actually using it? It’s an old CS reference.

nah not really. REKT and GGWP are the new hip gaming references haha.

 

[Gurby]

Dude it's 2019. The kids who played CS back then are attendings now.

Shazbot 🙁

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Yeah. That makes sense. Attending are older. Are the kids actually using it? It’s an old CS reference.

It was around before CS...

 

[jdh71]

Dude it's 2019. The kids who played CS back then are attendings now.

That was kind of my point. I feel like you are having a different conversation from me.

 

[jdh71]

nah not really. REKT and GGWP are the new hip gaming references haha.

See. This is what I was asking about.

Is it implied GGWP is said sarcastically?

 

[jdh71]

It was around before CS...

I don’t think you are correct on that. Where did you first see it?

 

[NicMouse64]

I don’t think you are correct on that. Where did you first see it?

Eh it depends.....If you are losing a game and there's no hope you say GGWP and give up (used to play DOTA before medical school)....

 

[Gilakend]

See. This is what I was asking about.

Is it implied GGWP is said sarcastically?

As a current CS player, it can be either. If you go 16-15 you can say ggwp seriously, if it's 16-3 you can say ggwp making fun of people.

Although my favorite current trash talk is just typing "HAHAHAHAHAHA" in all caps. People get real riled up.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I don’t think you are correct on that. Where did you first see it?

From everything I've seen, it came from WoW... I never played it, but that's whats mentioned. I've never heard of CS being particularly associated with starting it.