SDN Hierarchy

[Tin Man]

I'm not a SDN addict, and I don't think I've created a thread before (I didn't check), but I thought I would comment on something a bit amusing I've noticed about these boards. To start, I keep my status within the medical system private not because I try to fake my role. Rather, I want people who would normally consider themselves "above" me to listen to what I have to say, and people "below" me in the system to at least question the things I say and not take it as 100% rule (which is somewhat the reason for this post).

Although these are the pre-medical boards, a great deal of medical students make there way onto there. That's fine; in fact, I would encourage that, as it gives pre-meds someone who's been through the gauntlet to ask advice. Advice is good, and since that is what people come to this board for (especially at this stage in their medical aspirations), then medical students SHOULD take some time to give back here. So for those that do, bravo.

What confuses me, rather, is the medical students who come to this board with an inflated sense of superiority in regards to knowledge on the pre-medical gauntlet itself. The logic doesn't really follow. It's not too difficult to think about.

Does having gained entrance to medical school provide some sort of divine knowledge as to the absolutes within the pre-medical requirements? I see medical students here all the time doing their silly textual laughs at the "ignorant pre-meds." In the end, though, unless the medical school student is serving on his/her medical school's admission board, how are they really any more knowledgeable about the admissions requirements than they were before they entered medical school? How are they really more informed than the average motivated pre-med found on this board?

It's just ridiculous. I realize that medical students are under a lot of stress and may feel the need to take inferiority issues that arise from being peons in the medical system out on people over the internet. But if you, as a medical student, feel like it's necessary to put down a pre-med because "you know better", do yourself the service of asking WHY it is you know better. Is it because you are on the adcom? Is it because you wrote a good article for SDN about it? Is it because you did an unhealthy amount of research into it?

If your answer is, "Because I stopped being a pre-med a year ago, and therefore know more concrete details about the adcom than every other person who is 1-4 years behind me", then do yourself a favor, and keep people like me from laughing at you by keeping your useless post to yourself.

That is all.

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[Isoprop]

Med students can take part in the admission process.

 

[Compass]

I would let med students bully me 24/7 if they'd get me into medical school.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

The medical education system is hierachical and as you will see in medical school, a lot of people, for no good reason, start thinking they are better than those a year or two behind them.

With regards to SDN, I agree there are some med students who come to preallo to gloat, there are also many with experience interviewing applicants, serving on the adcom, and with a familiarity of the whole application and acceptance process that provide sound and useful advice.

 

[TheDuder]

It's not just med. students who come on here desperately seeking attention and admiration.

 

[chman]

Although I do agree on some of what you said, I do have a point to make. Medical students DO have more knowledge of the admissions process because they have gone through it. They have submitted the apps, gone to the interviews, etc.

Most of the med-students that comment, I believe, are trying to help, and do help for the most part. I appreciate their input.

That being said, some people on SDN,think that their $*it don't stink. Some just put "medical student" on their avatar to gain respect. Like everything one reads, things on here should be taken with a grain of salt, whether pre-med, med-student, or attending.

 

[J ROD]

Life in general is a pissing match......it is better to be doing the peeing than getting pissed on!!!

 

[Tin Man]

Med students can take part in the admission process.

Which I acknowledged. But the number of students who do definitely does not correlate with the number of medical students here.

Medical students DO have more knowledge of the admissions process because they have gone through it. They have submitted the apps, gone to the interviews, etc.

Eh, but it's debateable how much more insight than the average pre-med they gain. If they bumble through interviews and secondaries just like every other pre-med, how does coming out the other end give them additional knowledge?

If they were going through the pre-med gauntlet for twenty years, and were professional pre-meds, then I can understand where they might have more experience. But chances are that, like most of the pre-meds here, they spent 4-5 years in college, did the exact same thing all other pre-meds do, got the same type of grades everyone else has, and in the end, did nothing more than most of these pre-meds will do. So unless they go into graduate-level studies about the pre-med process AFTER being accepted into medical school, I don't see how their status as a medical student shows that they know significantly more than anyone else about it. All it shows is that they knew enough to get into medical school.

And if we were accepting people into medical school based simply upon the knowledge of HOW to get into medical school, then there would be few people on this board who WOULDN'T have an acceptance, correct?

 

[chman]

Which I acknowledged. But the number of students who do definitely does not correlate with the number of medical students here.



Eh, but it's debateable how much more insight than the average pre-med they gain. If they bumble through interviews and secondaries just like every other pre-med, how does coming out the other end give them additional knowledge?

If they were going through the pre-med gauntlet for twenty years, and were professional pre-meds, then I can understand where they might have more experience. But chances are that, like most of the pre-meds here, they spent 4-5 years in college, did the exact same thing all other pre-meds do, got the same type of grades everyone else has, and in the end, did nothing more than most of these pre-meds will do. So unless they go into graduate-level studies about the pre-med process AFTER being accepted into medical school, I don't see how their status as a medical student shows that they know significantly more than anyone else about it. All it shows is that they knew enough to get into medical school.

And if we were accepting people into medical school based simply upon the knowledge of HOW to get into medical school, then there would be few people on this board who WOULDN'T have an acceptance, correct?

I get what you're saying, and agree somewhat. Nevertheless, they know what worked for THEM. That is information that is valuable to me.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I'm not a SDN addict, and I don't think I've created a thread before (I didn't check), but I thought I would comment on something a bit amusing I've noticed about these boards. To start, I keep my status within the medical system private not because I try to fake my role. Rather, I want people who would normally consider themselves "above" me to listen to what I have to say, and people "below" me in the system to at least question the things I say and not take it as 100% rule (which is somewhat the reason for this post).

Although these are the pre-medical boards, a great deal of medical students make there way onto there. That's fine; in fact, I would encourage that, as it gives pre-meds someone who's been through the gauntlet to ask advice. Advice is good, and since that is what people come to this board for (especially at this stage in their medical aspirations), then medical students SHOULD take some time to give back here. So for those that do, bravo.

What confuses me, rather, is the medical students who come to this board with an inflated sense of superiority in regards to knowledge on the pre-medical gauntlet itself. The logic doesn't really follow. It's not too difficult to think about.

Does having gained entrance to medical school provide some sort of divine knowledge as to the absolutes within the pre-medical requirements? I see medical students here all the time doing their silly textual laughs at the "ignorant pre-meds." In the end, though, unless the medical school student is serving on his/her medical school's admission board, how are they really any more knowledgeable about the admissions requirements than they were before they entered medical school? How are they really more informed than the average motivated pre-med found on this board?

It's just ridiculous. I realize that medical students are under a lot of stress and may feel the need to take inferiority issues that arise from being peons in the medical system out on people over the internet. But if you, as a medical student, feel like it's necessary to put down a pre-med because "you know better", do yourself the service of asking WHY it is you know better. Is it because you are on the adcom? Is it because you wrote a good article for SDN about it? Is it because you did an unhealthy amount of research into it?

If your answer is, "Because I stopped being a pre-med a year ago, and therefore know more concrete details about the adcom than every other person who is 1-4 years behind me", then do yourself a favor, and keep people like me from laughing at you by keeping your useless post to yourself.

That is all.

Very true. Pre-meds should take note that most of us med students still don't know how our med schools screwed up so badly as to actually accept us

 

[Tin Man]

I get what you're saying, and agree somewhat. Nevertheless, they know what worked for THEM. That is information that is valuable to me.

Fair enough.

Keep in mind, though, that as has been acknowledged by a near unanimous agreement from everyone involved, the medical school admissions process has almost nothing to do with what you have done right, but rather by avoiding things you've done wrong.

There are THOUSANDS of people who met all the requirements, did all the right things, and in a perfect world, SHOULD be accepted into medical school. A lot of it is luck and perseverance. So with that in mind, as the med student above me so humbly pointed out, it is absolutely true that the medical student laughing at you for being a stupid pre-med could very well have gotten into medical school with a far inferior application than you will present and was simply in the right place at the right time.

I just think that pre-meds CAN reach a point where they know as much or more than any given med student about the pre-med gauntlet. Especially with resources like SDN, the admissions process, while sometimes illogical, is not particularly secretive. Anyone can get access to information about any part of the gauntlet, and in the end, the medical schools do not provide all incoming med students with the skinny on the perfect way to be accepted.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

+10000000000000000

 

[MossPoh]

Most of us frown upon the neurotic premeds that ask the same questions that have been asked 100000s of times before on these boards and could be answered with a quick search. They just see themselves as a beautiful and unique snowflake. The fact is, especially before interviews and the admissions process takes place, most med students DO know a lot more about things. We DO talk to adcoms, give tours of the building and participate in the admission process (at some schools).

This is one of those things that a year makes a world of difference. Similar to a senior in high school and a freshman in college or a 2nd year med student and a 3rd year. There are dividing points that are vastly different contrasts. On here, much of the advice also is coming from people whom have spent years reading and observing other stories as well.

Premeds get treated the same way that med students get treated by many of the residents/attendings on these boards. Why? Because a year or two can make a hell of a difference. Quit whining and learn to sift through the good and bad.

 

[aggie08]

Very true. Pre-meds should take note that most of us med students still don't know how our med schools screwed up so badly as to actually accept us

Very true.

The first thing I thought when I passed the first test is, "Thank goodness I don't have to go yell at the AdCom for letting me in just to watch me fail out."

hahaha

o dear....

 

[aggie08]

Most of us frown upon the neurotic premeds that ask the same questions that have been asked 100000s of times before on these boards and could be answered with a quick search. They just see themselves as a beautiful and unique snowflake. The fact is, especially before interviews and the admissions process takes place, most med students DO know a lot more about things. We DO talk to adcoms, give tours of the building and participate in the admission process (at some schools).

This is one of those things that a year makes a world of difference. Similar to a senior in high school and a freshman in college or a 2nd year med student and a 3rd year. There are dividing points that are vastly different contrasts. On here, much of the advice also is coming from people whom have spent years reading and observing other stories as well.

Premeds get treated the same way that med students get treated by many of the residents/attendings on these boards. Why? Because a year or two can make a hell of a difference. Quit whining and learn to sift through the good and bad.

I was thinking the same thing. I wouldn't care if a 3rd or 4th year was a little harsh with me regarding questions about rounds, etc. as long as I got the information I needed. They are only 2 years ahead of me at this point, but they know way more about what it's like to get through particular rounds then I do.


OP,
Most of us spent our days as pre-meds here and we come back to offer advice and support to those of you who are where we were just a short year or 2 ago. You will understand when you start spending some of your valuable free time as a medical student here that it is frustrating to come and find 20 new "my gpa is a 3.3 BUT I have great ECs, will I get in??" posts when you want to find legitimate questions from people who really need help.

I have no apologies about the advice I've given. Just like you would give advice to a HS senior and legitimately know more about college and how to get there, we give you our opinions about this process....some of us have been through it 2, 3 even 4 times. If you've never been to a med school interview, the med students DO know 2309842309x more than you about what to expect.

And like a PP said, take what is told to you with a grain of salt, think for yourself and appreciate the ability to make your own decisions.

 

[nlax30]

Agree with the above.

Of course, being a med student does not automatically make them an expert on medical school admissions but the point is that EVERY med student has experience with the process and there's at least something to be said for people offering advice based on their experiences.

And I don't think that you can say that the majority of med students on here don't have further experience/contact with the admissions dept or process once they are in school. The students on here are not necessarily a representative sample of all med students. And I'm willing to bet that on average med students have more interaction with their admissions dept than you think.

I do agree that there is no need to just come on here and start complaining about sill pre-meds for no reason, but there are plenty of instances where the question could have been answered by a simple search or is answered by someone who has no clue what they're talking about and posts wron information and other students have to constantly correct it.

 

[Tin Man]

To be clear, I have NO problem with people who give legitimate advice. That was stated in the original post, and that's what I WELCOMED.

My problem comes from the posts which (I could probably quote but won't so I am not calling anyone out) that say things like, "Ha, stupid pre-med thinks that research matters..." or "Go ahead and waste your time studying physics if you want, but what the adcoms REALLY care about is..."

I have no problem with people that give hard truths. I am known to be somewhat rough in treatment at times. But there is a difference between real advice and an answer given for no other reason than to try to establish authority where there really is none.

Hope that (re)clarifies things. I'm not complaining against med students. Just against d-bag med students (which, if we were to take the number of d-bag pre-meds for comparison, can make up an unfortunate ratio...)

 

[teenmachinery1]

I get what you're saying, and agree somewhat. Nevertheless, they know what worked for THEM. That is information that is valuable to me.

Because they got in, doesn't mean they "know what worked for THEM."

 

[chman]

Because they got in, doesn't mean they "know what worked for THEM."

They got in, so something worked.

 

[Slowpoke]

There are always going to be d-bags on messageboards. It's a hidden disclaimer that all internetees should be aware of.

 

[mmmcdowe]

To be clear, I have NO problem with people who give legitimate advice. That was stated in the original post, and that's what I WELCOMED.

My problem comes from the posts which (I could probably quote but won't so I am not calling anyone out) that say things like, "Ha, stupid pre-med thinks that research matters..." or "Go ahead and waste your time studying physics if you want, but what the adcoms REALLY care about is..."

I have no problem with people that give hard truths. I am known to be somewhat rough in treatment at times. But there is a difference between real advice and an answer given for no other reason than to try to establish authority where there really is none.

Hope that (re)clarifies things. I'm not complaining against med students. Just against d-bag med students (which, if we were to take the number of d-bag pre-meds for comparison, can make up an unfortunate ratio...)

There are just as many douche bag pre-meds ratio-wise, they just hide it more out of fear that adcoms are watching. Don't believe me? Read last years Harvard secondary thread and watch the transformation of a small number of posters from friendly and humble to snarky (my favorite was something along the lines of "everyone applies to harvard in their hearts") . I'm sure that's the case for many other threads, but that was the big shocker for me last year.

 

[fahimaz7]

Personally, my view on the entire admissions process has changed since I have gotten into medical school. I used to be one of the pre-med readers, on SDN, that questioned medical students when they told me "I had no idea what I was talking about". In reality, I didn't.

Is that a bad thing? No, we all go through the process. However, SDN provides a forum for discussions to go on and for experienced medical students, residents, and attendings to contribute to these topics. Each person who has successfully passed a medical school class can weigh in on whatever topic that applies to their level of training, with a more educated voice than in the past. Are they still an ass? Most of the time they are...

What's never talked about on here is that each school is very different, and thus each student will have a different experience.

 

[Instatewaiter]

To start, I keep my status within the medical system private not because I try to fake my role. Rather, I want people who would normally consider themselves "above" me to listen to what I have to say, and people "below" me in the system to at least question the things I say and not take it as 100% rule (which is somewhat the reason for this post).

Although these are the pre-medical boards, a great deal of medical students make there way onto there. That's fine; in fact, I would encourage that, as it gives pre-meds someone who's been through the gauntlet to ask advice. Advice is good, and since that is what people come to this board for (especially at this stage in their medical aspirations), then medical students SHOULD take some time to give back here. So for those that do, bravo.

What confuses me, rather, is the medical students who come to this board with an inflated sense of superiority in regards to knowledge on the pre-medical gauntlet itself. The logic doesn't really follow. It's not too difficult to think about.

Does having gained entrance to medical school provide some sort of divine knowledge as to the absolutes within the pre-medical requirements? I see medical students here all the time doing their silly textual laughs at the "ignorant pre-meds." In the end, though, unless the medical school student is serving on his/her medical school's admission board, how are they really any more knowledgeable about the admissions requirements than they were before they entered medical school? How are they really more informed than the average motivated pre-med found on this board?

It's just ridiculous. I realize that medical students are under a lot of stress and may feel the need to take inferiority issues that arise from being peons in the medical system out on people over the internet. But if you, as a medical student, feel like it's necessary to put down a pre-med because "you know better", do yourself the service of asking WHY it is you know better. Is it because you are on the adcom? Is it because you wrote a good article for SDN about it? Is it because you did an unhealthy amount of research into it?

If your answer is, "Because I stopped being a pre-med a year ago, and therefore know more concrete details about the adcom than every other person who is 1-4 years behind me", then do yourself a favor, and keep people like me from laughing at you by keeping your useless post to yourself.

That is all.

There are a lot of pre-meds on the board who get mouthy with medical students. Pulling out the "well I'm a med student" usually shuts them up. It is a useful card to play because frankly, the fact that med students have gone through the process does mean they know more than almost all who have not. Just a matter of experience.

 

[mmmcdowe]

And experience is the currency of medicine. Which is why SDN exists in the first place. It isn't perfect, but don't expect it to end.

 

[ensuii]

TLDR for those of us too tired from studying please.

 

[Long Dong]

When I was a med student I was on the adcom, did tours and interviews. So maybe some med students might know a little something.

 

[JJMrK]

Do you really think that after having been through the application process, granted an acceptance, and taken classes in medical school, current medical students know as much as a "highly motivated pre-med"? That's like saying a high school student knows as much about succeeding in and getting into college as a current undergrad. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

[Tin Man]

I think we're looking at the pre-med gauntlet two different ways, and psychologically, that would make sense.

Med students here seem to see the whole pre-med experience almost as a single event. As I said, that makes sense given that medical students have finished their run. It was a four-year block of events that, once completed, really loses the sense of being anything other than something which can be viewed in a singular light.

On the other hand, for pre-meds and perhaps those in the medical field who can look back at pre-med and not shiver, the gauntlet is not looked at as a single event, but rather as a massive journey, full of hundreds of little checkpoints.

So, viewed in that light, it really is silly to say that "finishing" pre-med gives anyone more experience or knowledge. Obviously the experience argument is illogical, since they aren't pre-meds anymore, and really aren't gaining "pre-med" experience. Their pre-med experience ended as soon as they stopped being pre-med. Knowledge, well... like I said, being a pre-med isn't an event that, once finished, can be treated like a singular event. It ends with a letter, and before that letter, the pre-med students are either at the very beginning, or near the very end. By the time they reach SDN, they're usually around half-way done.

Think of it this way. It's the difference between finishing a college course and finishing college (ironic, I know, but keep it in ratio and it makes sense). Someone who has been through a single course can easily claim superior knowledge in that subject matter over everyone who hasn't completed that course, because the course is, within the context of all of college, easily viewed as an event, not a progression. On the other hand, it is much odder to hear recent college graduates claiming experience-based superiority against those in college, because in most ways, physically getting handed a piece of paper that says you have a BA does not necessarily make you that much more educated about the process of GETTING the BA. All it means is that the college graduate was able to do it as his school, for his BA, and was able to do it on his terms. The college graduate was using the SAME KNOWLEDGE everyone else was and will be using to get that BA; he just finished it earlier.

Clear as mud?

 

[DrYoda]

Medicine is a really hierarchial profession and I think that comes out even over the internet.

 

[JJMrK]

Think of it this way. It's the difference between finishing a college course and finishing college (ironic, I know, but keep it in ratio and it makes sense). Someone who has been through a single course can easily claim superior knowledge in that subject matter over everyone who hasn't completed that course, because the course is, within the context of all of college, easily viewed as an event, not a progression. On the other hand, it is much odder to hear recent college graduates claiming experience-based superiority against those in college, because in most ways, physically getting handed a piece of paper that says you have a BA does not necessarily make you that much more educated about the process of GETTING the BA. All it means is that the college graduate was able to do it as his school, for his BA, and was able to do it on his terms. The college graduate was using the SAME KNOWLEDGE everyone else was and will be using to get that BA; he just finished it earlier.

OK, sure, but aren't we talking about gaining an acceptance to medical school? That takes a lot of effort beyond simply graduating, and it's worth listening to someone who has been through the process successfully.

 

[Tin Man]

When I was a med student I was on the adcom, did tours and interviews. So maybe some med students might know a little something.

Already covered in the original post. Feel free to read.

Do you really think that after having been through the application process, granted an acceptance, and taken classes in medical school, current medical students know as much as a "highly motivated pre-med"? That's like saying a high school student knows as much about succeeding in and getting into college as a current undergrad.

Succeeding in college, no, a high school student wouldn't know as much. Getting into college? Yeah. Definitely. Why not?

Let me think back to when I started college. After I was accepted and enrolled, you know what I focused on? College classes. Not college admissions. Therefore, I gained NO additional knowledge about getting into college. I didn't NEED to know it anymore, so I didn't bother to learn anything more about it. I was already in.

So, if asked by a high school student about how to get into college, I would not have been able to tell them anything they didn't already know. I could tell them to get good grades and get good standardized test scores. Past that, well...? I mean, ANYONE applying to college knows that already.

So yeah, I feel completely comfortable with that analogy. Going through the application process? Pre-meds are constantly going through the application process, and the criteria for a good application are all over this board, so very few pre-meds DON'T know that stuff. Getting an acceptance? That's not an indication of anything other than getting a piece of paper saying that some school liked you enough to grant you an acceptance. Considering that this is a completely subjective standard past a certain line, the advice that any med student could offer would be based entirely on the accepting school's criteria and the luck they had of getting in (because, honestly, a good portion of it IS luck). Taken classes in medical school? Are they wasting time in med school teaching you guys how to get accepted into medical school?

 

[Long Dong]

Clear as 2 inch steal.

I like my example better. I was on the adcom, interviewed peeps, and read apps, gave a thumb up or down. So some med students are "more educated about the process of getting" in.

Yes I read your first post but did you read mine. Feel free to read it again.

 

[mmmcdowe]

I think we're looking at the pre-med gauntlet two different ways, and psychologically, that would make sense.

Med students here seem to see the whole pre-med experience almost as a single event. As I said, that makes sense given that medical students have finished their run. It was a four-year block of events that, once completed, really loses the sense of being anything other than something which can be viewed in a singular light.

On the other hand, for pre-meds and perhaps those in the medical field who can look back at pre-med and not shiver, the gauntlet is not looked at as a single event, but rather as a massive journey, full of hundreds of little checkpoints.

So, viewed in that light, it really is silly to say that "finishing" pre-med gives anyone more experience or knowledge. Obviously the experience argument is illogical, since they aren't pre-meds anymore, and really aren't gaining "pre-med" experience. Their pre-med experience ended as soon as they stopped being pre-med. Knowledge, well... like I said, being a pre-med isn't an event that, once finished, can be treated like a singular event. It ends with a letter, and before that letter, the pre-med students are either at the very beginning, or near the very end. By the time they reach SDN, they're usually around half-way done.

Think of it this way. It's the difference between finishing a college course and finishing college (ironic, I know, but keep it in ratio and it makes sense). Someone who has been through a single course can easily claim superior knowledge in that subject matter over everyone who hasn't completed that course, because the course is, within the context of all of college, easily viewed as an event, not a progression. On the other hand, it is much odder to hear recent college graduates claiming experience-based superiority against those in college, because in most ways, physically getting handed a piece of paper that says you have a BA does not necessarily make you that much more educated about the process of GETTING the BA. All it means is that the college graduate was able to do it as his school, for his BA, and was able to do it on his terms. The college graduate was using the SAME KNOWLEDGE everyone else was and will be using to get that BA; he just finished it earlier.

Clear as mud?

Exactly. Having finished a class before you, I can offer advice on how to study or help on material. I will remember the tests and the subjects at least moderately well. I might know which TA's are more helpful. If anything, you have made a great argument FOR medical students being justified in their advice giving. Just insert any premed topic where I said tests and the subjects and insert advisers/PI's/etc where I said TA.

Also, I think you are wrong about medical students thinking that pre-med is just one singular event. I would also argue that doing interviews and talking to adcoms along the interview trail HAS given me a lot of insight, and I'm not alone. Let's drop this post, but I want you to come back to it after you have gotten into medical school. I think you will have a change of heart

 

[mmmcdowe]

Already covered in the original post. Feel free to read.



Succeeding in college, no, a high school student wouldn't know as much. Getting into college? Yeah. Definitely. Why not?

Let me think back to when I started college. After I was accepted and enrolled, you know what I focused on? College classes. Not college admissions. Therefore, I gained NO additional knowledge about getting into college. I didn't NEED to know it anymore, so I didn't bother to learn anything more about it. I was already in.

So, if asked by a high school student about how to get into college, I would not have been able to tell them anything they didn't already know. I could tell them to get good grades and get good standardized test scores. Past that, well...? I mean, ANYONE applying to college knows that already.

So yeah, I feel completely comfortable with that analogy. Going through the application process? Pre-meds are constantly going through the application process, and the criteria for a good application are all over this board, so very few pre-meds DON'T know that stuff. Getting an acceptance? That's not an indication of anything other than getting a piece of paper saying that some school liked you enough to grant you an acceptance. Considering that this is a completely subjective standard past a certain line, the advice that any med student could offer would be based entirely on the accepting school's criteria and the luck they had of getting in (because, honestly, a good portion of it IS luck). Taken classes in medical school? Are they wasting time in med school teaching you guys how to get accepted into medical school?

And yet the ask the same questions over and over. Think about it this way, medical students are end of the line pre-meds. We've gone through the whole pre-med deal, collected all of the information possible, read the most threads, etc, etc. So even if we didn't gain some new insight as medical students, we are still the most experienced in pre-med (obviously, not everyone starts prepping for pre-med day one or accesses the maximum amount of information, but you get my drift)

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Does anyone else get the feeling that Tin Man will become what he's complaining about in a couple years?

 

[Long Dong]

Does anyone else get the feeling that Tin Man will become what he's complaining about in a couple years?

I think he/she well be one of those who likes the sound of there own voice and how smart they sound.

"The name 'tin man' comes from a physical analogy which highlights the hollow nature of the tin man argument. Imagine two men in a fight. The first person throws a punch at the second, the second person, in defence, builds a man from tin, starts throwing punches at it but never quite hard enough to put a dent in it. The first person loses because he was never really there in the first place."

 

[fahimaz7]

Another typical pre-med talking a load of **** to medical students on SDN. Can we go ahead and get a troll ban?

 

[Tin Man]

Another typical pre-med talking a load of **** to medical students on SDN. Can we go ahead and get a troll ban?

I think you're in the wrong forum to be complaining about pre-meds, huh? Don't you have your own forum?

I'm not sure where you guys came up with the "Tin Man's a pre-med" idea. I guess none of you figured out that it would be completely hypocritical for me to pull rank, huh?

Regardless, if you're insulted by what was written, then I was probably talking about you. My post, if read, clearly states that I have no problem with med school students giving advice to pre-meds. I was merely remarking on the irony of a med school student claiming some sort of superiority over most pre-meds, since the knowledge level of most pre-meds on how to build a good application (especially on this site) is about equal with the knowledge of anyone who's actually done it.

So yeah, if you're offended, you probably deserve to be offended. I have no problem with that. What I wrote didn't apply to many medical students, and I would imagine those would be the ones who don't try to pick fights with pre-meds in the first place.

 

[imer]

...

 

[fahimaz7]

I think you're in the wrong forum to be complaining about pre-meds, huh? Don't you have your own forum?

I'm not sure where you guys came up with the "Tin Man's a pre-med" idea. I guess none of you figured out that it would be completely hypocritical for me to pull rank, huh?

Regardless, if you're insulted by what was written, then I was probably talking about you. My post, if read, clearly states that I have no problem with med school students giving advice to pre-meds. I was merely remarking on the irony of a med school student claiming some sort of superiority over most pre-meds, since the knowledge level of most pre-meds on how to build a good application (especially on this site) is about equal with the knowledge of anyone who's actually done it.

So yeah, if you're offended, you probably deserve to be offended. I have no problem with that. What I wrote didn't apply to many medical students, and I would imagine those would be the ones who don't try to pick fights with pre-meds in the first place.

I'm looking forward to seeing if your same attitude is present after your start medical school. Like you said, medical students are not educated on "what the ADCOM is looking for." If that's the case, why are you even in this argument in the first place? You even picked a fight with a former adcom member and resident.

 

[mmmcdowe]

I think you're in the wrong forum to be complaining about pre-meds, huh? Don't you have your own forum?

I'm not sure where you guys came up with the "Tin Man's a pre-med" idea. I guess none of you figured out that it would be completely hypocritical for me to pull rank, huh?

Regardless, if you're insulted by what was written, then I was probably talking about you. My post, if read, clearly states that I have no problem with med school students giving advice to pre-meds. I was merely remarking on the irony of a med school student claiming some sort of superiority over most pre-meds, since the knowledge level of most pre-meds on how to build a good application (especially on this site) is about equal with the knowledge of anyone who's actually done it.

So yeah, if you're offended, you probably deserve to be offended. I have no problem with that. What I wrote didn't apply to many medical students, and I would imagine those would be the ones who don't try to pick fights with pre-meds in the first place.

Well you were last year and to my knowledge you weren't applying. So at the very most you are a medical student.

 

[cubssox2000]

You make some good arguments Tin Man, and generally, you are correct. Most med students don't know too much more about the process than a pre-med does. However, there is one thing we have that pre-meds don't have, and that is an acceptance. I don't mean to sound like a d-bag, but the fact of the matter is that we were able to find a way into medical school, and by using SDN we are able to share what it was that got us in. In that way, we have a form of experience that no pre-med has. Although every application is different, people will have similar things and can compare among many people, whose overlapping applications may make up their own. Thats why it is important for med students to share their experiences. If a pre-med has something on their application and are not sure about putting it on their application, and I mention that I did the same thing and it helped me in interviews, then I have helped that person. In this case, the fact that I am a med student has helped the pre-med.

Interestingly, if you look at a lot of the threads in which people are asking about their applications, it is not med students who are being egotistical, but mostly pre-meds who are being arrogant and pointing out how their application is insanely better, and why they will get in while other won't. Sadly, this is the nature of the internet. Everyone thinks they have the answers because they read something somewhere on the net. Personally, if I had to choose between a pre-med and a med student, I will take the advise of the student 10 times out of 10 (keeping in mind that everything on SDN should be taken with a grain of salt).

 

[Tin Man]

Interestingly, if you look at a lot of the threads in which people are asking about their applications, it is not med students who are being egotistical, but mostly pre-meds who are being arrogant and pointing out how their application is insanely better, and why they will get in while other won't. Sadly, this is the nature of the internet. Everyone thinks they have the answers because they read something somewhere on the net. Personally, if I had to choose between a pre-med and a med student, I will take the advise of the student 10 times out of 10 (keeping in mind that everything on SDN should be taken with a grain of salt).

Sure, no argument there. At least when it comes to the aforementioned d-bags. I think I worded it poorly before, but if we were to imagine everyone who was an arrogant pre-med and compare that ratio to arrogant med-students, it probably adds up pretty closely (since few are brave enough to be anything but a humble altruist in front of the adcoms).

I simply say that med students have a good role on this forum, but for the most part, the level of authority that comes with getting a signed piece of paper that you successfully completed pre-med is generally not enough to go on a power-trip about.

Which, if I read your post correct, you agree about.

 

[dw2158]

OP, the moral of the story is... in the country of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

 

[armybound]

tl;dr on most of this stuff

I'm probably one being accused of being a d-bag med student here. There are some factors you're forgetting, though.

One, med students are extremely busy. Busier than most pre-meds would be. We're stressed out and working very hard. As such, we're irritable. As much as we enjoy med school, it's very frustrating sometimes.

We take a few free minutes to try to give some pre-meds some advice and we come across some very annoying/frustrating questions. What should I quadruple major in? Should I work 900 hours a week and take 42 semester hours so I can get into Harvard?

Dude, RELAX. Enjoy undergrad. Why? Because, as a medical student, I can tell you that med school sucks the life out of you sometimes. You will not appreciate undergrad until you're a medical student, and at that point it's too late. Don't make the mistakes we did.

As someone who has been through it, we have a new perspective on undergrad that current undergrads don't have. We know what it's like to be in medical school and look back on the mistakes we made as undergrads and the things we would have done differently. Undergrads can't teach each other this, and they won't appreciate what we're saying until they're in our place. Want to know what courses help in med school? Why ask an undergrad? Ask someone who is in med school. Want to know if research helps you get into med school? Ask medical students if they did research. There's a big difference between knowledge and experience.

 

[ensuii]

tl;dr on most of this stuff

I'm probably one being accused of being a d-bag med student here. There are some factors you're forgetting, though.

One, med students are extremely busy. Busier than most pre-meds would be. We're stressed out and working very hard. As such, we're irritable. As much as we enjoy med school, it's very frustrating sometimes.

We take a few free minutes to try to give some pre-meds some advice and we come across some very annoying/frustrating questions. What should I quadruple major in? Should I work 900 hours a week and take 42 semester hours so I can get into Harvard?

Dude, RELAX. Enjoy undergrad. Why? Because, as a medical student, I can tell you that med school sucks the life out of you sometimes. You will not appreciate undergrad until you're a medical student, and at that point it's too late. Don't make the mistakes we did.

As someone who has been through it, we have a new perspective on undergrad that current undergrads don't have. We know what it's like to be in medical school and look back on the mistakes we made as undergrads and the things we would have done differently. Undergrads can't teach each other this, and they won't appreciate what we're saying until they're in our place. Want to know what courses help in med school? Why ask an undergrad? Ask someone who is in med school. Want to know if research helps you get into med school? Ask medical students if they did research. There's a big difference between knowledge and experience.

^ is amazing.

 

[Long Dong]

I simply say that med students have a good role on this forum, but for the most part, the level of authority that comes with getting a signed piece of paper that you successfully completed pre-med is generally not enough to go on a power-trip about.

Wrong again, tin man (hollow argument man). Anyone who goes to class and put in a half an effort to pass can get that piece of paper (BS or BA). But not everyone of those people can get into med school. Their authority to give advice comes from getting into med school. You don't even have to pull rank to figure out you are not in med school, it is obvious from your post. Look here many of us were cooky like you in undergrad, but as you progress in your career you'll meet a lot of smarter people which usually humbles you. Once you're in med school you'll see it doesn't take much to get on the adcom of some schools. They just walk around the study area and say "hey are you free to give a tour and by the way would you like to interview some students for us." Next thing you know most med students if they wanted to can and do take part in the admissions process. You might want to listen to some of them because they do know what they are talking about.

"A smart man learns form their mistakes. An even smarter man learns from the mistakes of others."

 

[Tin Man]

I think a lot of people are missing the point, although I am willing to trump that up to my apparently lack of ability to communicate my thoughts rather than a willful disregard for what I'm saying.

So, in that regard, I'm not going to say any more on it. The people who get it get it, and the people who don't don't. I'm not a troll, and not here to look for a fight, which this apparently is becoming, and I'm not here to spurn a reaction, because the reaction I'm getting is not particularly helpful for anyone.

So hopefully there aren't any hard feelings, because for most of you, I certainly didn't intend for there to be...

 

[Long Dong]

I think a lot of people are missing the point, although I am willing to trump that up to my apparently lack of ability to communicate my thoughts rather than a willful disregard for what I'm saying.

So, in that regard, I'm not going to say any more on it. The people who get it get it, and the people who don't don't. I'm not a troll, and not here to look for a fight, which this apparently is becoming, and I'm not here to spurn a reaction, because the reaction I'm getting is not particularly helpful for anyone.

So hopefully there aren't any hard feelings, because for most of you, I certainly didn't intend for there to be...

 

[aggie08]

And word of advice to OP:

If you're uncomfortable with the people who are currently at a point where you are trying to be eventually exerting power over you, pick a new career.

Attendings >> Residents and Fellows
Fellows >> Residents
Residents >> 3rd and 4th Years
3rd and 4th Years >> 1st and 2nd Years
1st years >> Pre-Meds

It happens and it will continue to happen until you are done with your school and job training.

I personally choose to accept this as valuable learning that I can receive from those who are more experienced, instead of complaining about it. It's not SDN hierarchy, it's the real world hierarchy. Medicine is a hierarchical career, as is law, business, academia. Sorry it's so hard for you.